Ask questions to The Digital Bits team (Bill Hunt, Jeff Kleist et.al.)

[Jeff Kleist]

Now your comparing a campy TV Show to a masterpiece of art.
Congratulations, you just effectively lost all credibility in anything that follows.
I love the old Batman TV series as well. Doesn't mean I think it's a masterpiece.

j

The old Batman ruined the character for an entire generation and over a decade of comics. It took Neal Adams to take it back in the comics, and Tim Burton to undo the a/v damage
Citizen Kane or Barney, it should be respected

This whole thing is "Lucas raped my childhood" all over again.

Lucas created Star Wars, he can do with it as he pleases, as whatever he does is by default correct. Whether or not that's any GOOD is a different matter entirely

Honestly, keep your day job. Cause that idea wouldn't make much sense.

The tech levels and designs were already going to not match the shabby TV series.

This way the inconsistancies actually make sense, the timeline was altered creating a divergant reality.

Spock is there to steer things back on the correct path the best he can, though changes have/will occur.

Spock is the only character that makes sense in cameo. Due to his longer lifespan.

Everyone except Scotty would be dead and buried at this point. Unless McCoy was still kicking.

This is the last time I'm going to say this, seriously it's starting to be troll

SPOCK WOULD NOT BE IN THE FUTURE AT ALL. HIS CAMEO WOULD TAKE PLACE AT A TIME PRIOR TO KIRK'S DISSAPEARANCE IN GENERATIONS

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by NL197

-Enterprise....first mistake was choosing a Diane Warren-written song for its theme. It too betrayed its concept, and I didn't have to watch it to know that because the episode promos were telling enough. Ferengi, Borg, ripping off (of all things to repeat) VOYAGER episodes....I heard Peter Weller was appearing on it in later seasons, but I'd given up not even halfway through season 1 so it was too late.

You missed a good show. You really can't tell anything by previews.
Enterprise started out slow, there were no "awful" episodes like on TOS or TNG. The writers knew what fans were worried about with the Ferengi and the Borg...the Borg worked out quite well, since it addressed the timeline created by First Contact and kept that film's tone when showing them in action.
The Ferengi weren't as successful (it wasn't a disaster either) and the producers said they wouldn't do them again.

TNG's first two seasons were, on the whole, average to awful. There were a few gems sprinkled in there but the bad almost outweighed the good.

I'm excited about this new film, and I'm happy that the "mainstream" is taking notice of it too. For the first time in over a decade, it looks like Star Trek will be "cool" again.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

j

The old Batman ruined the character for an entire generation and over a decade of comics. It took Neal Adams to take it back in the comics, and Tim Burton to undo the a/v damage
Citizen Kane or Barney, it should be respected.

Please. The old Batman didn't ruin the character at all. That would be the new films.
And Star Trek is being respected. It's just being rebooted in a logical way.
The Trek nerds would be complaining if it was a straight reboot with no respect for what came before.
Here they're actullay try to explain why everything doesn't look like cardboard and christmas lights.

SPOCK WOULD NOT BE IN THE FUTURE AT ALL. HIS CAMEO WOULD TAKE PLACE AT A TIME PRIOR TO KIRK'S DISSAPEARANCE IN GENERATIONS

That wouldn't fit the plot of the film though, which deals with the Romulans.

[Jeff Kleist]

That wouldn't fit the plot of the film though, which deals with the Romulans.

Which doesn't matter if Spock is delivering a eulogy, which relates the first time he met Kirk does it?

Please. The old Batman didn't ruin the character at all. That would be the new films.
And Star Trek is being respected. It's just being rebooted in a logical way.
The Trek nerds would be complaining if it was a straight reboot with no respect for what came before.
Here they're actullay try to explain why everything doesn't look like cardboard and christmas lights.

The aesthetic issue is completely different and irrelevant to continuity. You're inventing arguements for us. No one including me wants things to look like they do in the 60s and the 70s, only that those designs are echo'd

The one thing Enterprise did right was making the decor look like a logicial bridge between the look and feel of TOS, and and progression from more modern tech toward the future.

If anything, its retro. The all-white thing went out in the 70s, and I don't think anyone wants to live in a dystopian future where Steve Jobs has been declared overlord, his head ruling from its futurama style jar (oh come on, it looks like an Apple store and all the uniforms have been given black turtlenecks? Think about it )

[Alan Gordon]

I think it all comes down to how hard-core a fan you are.

I'm not really a "hard-core" fan of "Star Trek", but I've had to deal with multiple film "disasters" based off of comic characters I grew up with, so I understand the "outrage."

There really isn't a single comic film I can think of (off the top of my head) that stays true to the source. Some films change the content SO much so that the characters are unrecognizable, and some films manage to at least keep the "spirit" of the characters. The "Spider-Man" films managed to do this VERY well, even with changing the characters and story so much ("web-shooters" anyone? Gwen Stacy in SM3 and Mary Jane in SM1? Anna Watson? etc.). "Iron Man" did this last year VERY well as well. Bryan Singer did a fairly good job with the first two X-Men films as well, even with all the MAJOR changes to the characters, stories, timelines, etc.

I'm NOT a Trekkie! I have seen all the movies, but only a portion of TOS. I have seen all the TNG movies, but only a portion of the TNG series. I have only seen a handful of DS9 and Voyager episodes, but own ALL of the "Enterprise" series on DVD.

I'd rather watch "Star Trek V: The Final Frontier" than "Star Trek: The Motion Picture", and I'd rather watch "Star Trek: Enterprise" over "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" and "Star Trek: Voyager" any day.

Am I going to be disappointed in aspects of this new movie? Probably! The building of the ship in Iowa isn't exactly upsetting to me, but I personally prefer the space-dock origin, and I personally don't care for the "spoiler" that Jeff posted in "spoiler tags" and Anthony P tried to, but I'm still very excited for this film in the fact that every trailer or TV spot makes it seem to me that they at least kept the "spirit" of Trek in this new film, and is probably the movie I'm most excited about coming out this Summer.

~Alan

[fitprod]

Originally Posted by scrumptious

Hopefully they will do that with Babylon 5.

There's a completly different can of worms when it comes to Babylon 5.

Most of the effects from the first few seasons, if not all, are rendered at 1.33 with no consideration for a potential 1.78 presentation. They are stretched or cropped on the standard def DVD's and look real awkard with the filmed elements which were originally created to be converted to 1.78.

Unfortunately, the original effects elements for B5 were lost/deleted by the special effects company. If you think Paramount's been cheap with Star Trek, it pales in comparison with WB's treatment of Babylon 5.

fitprod

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

and I don't think anyone wants to live in a dystopian future where Steve Jobs has been declared overlord, his head ruling from its futurama style jar (oh come on, it looks like an Apple store and all the uniforms have been given black turtlenecks? Think about it )

[Jeff Kleist]

The "Spider-Man" films managed to do this VERY well, even with changing the characters and story so much ("web-shooters" anyone? Gwen Stacy in SM3 and Mary Jane in SM1? Anna Watson? etc.). "Iron Man" did this last year VERY well as well. Bryan Singer did a fairly good job with the first two X-Men films as well, even with all the MAJOR changes to the characters, stories, timelines, etc.

Stan Lee personally approved all of those changes. That's the difference

[scrumptious]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I have not seen it, but if it is an "alternate universe" and that is the excuse used for "we can do what we want", then it isn't the ST universe. All they did is usurp the name of the show and the name of the characters.



but none of them tried to rewrite and completely change the world. TNG, DS9, Voyager was a different ship much later. Movies good or bad built on the existing Universe

In DS9, there is a 2 part episode that is set in an alternate universe. I can't recall right now, but I think that has happened on some of the other Star Trek franchises as well.

[scrumptious]

Originally Posted by fitprod

There's a completly different can of worms when it comes to Babylon 5.

Most of the effects from the first few seasons, if not all, are rendered at 1.33 with no consideration for a potential 1.78 presentation. They are stretched or cropped on the standard def DVD's and look real awkard with the filmed elements which were originally created to be converted to 1.78.

Unfortunately, the original effects elements for B5 were lost/deleted by the special effects company. If you think Paramount's been cheap with Star Trek, it pales in comparison with WB's treatment of Babylon 5.

fitprod

I thought B5 aired on TV in a widescreen ratio? If the original stuff is lost, they should just recycle that part from the dvds. Even if the filmed stuff were DVD video quality and just the audio were improved, I'd rebuy it all on blu-ray. B5 fans have made a total conversion mod of Freespace 2. I'm sure WB could just enlist them to make all new hi def special effects scenes or use the elements they used for their total conversion mod, for the blu-ray.

People will buy the blu-ray. People have shelled out big bucks just for these scripts and things that JMS has been putting out.

[Jeff Kleist]

In DS9, there is a 2 part episode that is set in an alternate universe. I can't recall right now, but I think that has happened on some of the other Star Trek franchises as well.

There were at least 3-4 stories that inhabited the same mirror universe from ST:TOS that had evolved because of Spock's push to unseat humans as the galactic overlords. Then Enterprise did a lame 2-parter with a Gorn that didn't look anything like a Gorn, and broke the hard and fast rule that you never see a Tholian (because it's an alternate universe!)

And Peter, if you didn't see any truely awful episodes of Enterprise.....wow, there were a lot, especially in the second season. Those were up there with the worst early TNG had to offer. Then they tried to do an arc, and ripped off Space Battleship Yamato hoping no one would notice. It's only when Manny Coto showed up that the show even got coherent, having hit bottom with space nazis. There are 2 things that show a show is about to die- Space Nazis and Space Vampires. And these looked like both That's why Stargate Atlantis never really took off. Space vampires, first episode

I thought B5 aired on TV in a widescreen ratio? If the original stuff is lost, they should just recycle that part from the dvds. Even if the filmed stuff were DVD video quality and just the audio were improved, I'd rebuy it all on blu-ray.

No, they protected for 16:9 on the live-action stuff. The series was retransferred to HD 10 years ago when Sci-Fi paid for it, but those are unlikely to still hold up today. The time, money and manpower required to redo al those FX (and it's unlikely that SciFi will sugar daddy it again) is far too big

[MerrickG]

What a debate.

Im gonna make it more interesting.

DS9 was the best Trek series of all of them. It had the best writers, the best bad guys and BY FAR the best character development of all the shows combined.

Its first two seasons werent that great, but once the third season started DS9 truly came into its own.

The only negative I had about the show was that I HATED the fact that they decided to pair up Worf and Dax. It was stupid and I was frankly glad she got killed off at the end of the 6th season.

[NL197]

Originally Posted by merrick97

What a debate.

DS9 was the best Trek series of all of them. It had the best writers, the best bad guys and BY FAR the best character development of all the shows combined.

Its first two seasons werent that great, but once the third season started DS9 truly came into its own.

The only negative I had about the show was that I HATED the fact that they decided to pair up Worf and Dax. It was stupid and I was frankly glad she got killed off at the end of the 6th season.

With the exception of Jadzia's wedding to Worf and then being killed off, I am in complete agreement with you.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

You missed a good show. You really can't tell anything by previews.
Enterprise started out slow, there were no "awful" episodes like on TOS or TNG. The writers knew what fans were worried about with the Ferengi and the Borg...the Borg worked out quite well, since it addressed the timeline created by First Contact and kept that film's tone when showing them in action.
The Ferengi weren't as successful (it wasn't a disaster either) and the producers said they wouldn't do them again.

While it's nice to know they realized their mistakes, I'll have no problem never watching the show. I read about how pissed Jolene Blalock was that Braga and Berman turned the ending into a stupid "twas all a holodeck dream" and the other producers considered the previous episode a true finale instead. Sounds to me like the actors wanted it to be genuinely good along with the writers while Berman and Braga were too full of themselves to care. They failed that show, and they failed Voyager.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by NL197

With the exception of Jadzia's wedding to Worf and then being killed off, I am in complete agreement with you.



While it's nice to know they realized their mistakes, I'll have no problem never watching the show. I read about how pissed Jolene Blalock was that Braga and Berman turned the ending into a stupid "twas all a holodeck dream" and the other producers considered the previous episode a true finale instead. Sounds to me like the actors wanted it to be genuinely good along with the writers while Berman and Braga were too full of themselves to care. They failed that show, and they failed Voyager.

I dont think Berman was bad at all. I give him credit for a lot of the good that came out of Trek post-Roddenbury. His mistake was listening too much to Brannon Braga and not enough to guys like Ron Moore, Robery Hewitt Wolfe and Ira Steven Behr. It was also a shame when Michael Pillar left the series, too.

[MerrickG]

I also dont get why Voyager was hated so much. I own all 7 seasons on dvd and felt that it had its moments that rank up with their with the best of the Trek

Of course it also had it moments where the show was as bad as any Trek.

My view, Voyager when it was good it was damn good, when it stunk it stunk.

[Neftoon]

I've seen the film, and I have been watching TOS for 16 years, so probably not as long as some of you, but even with the spoiler Mr. Kleist put out the story works, so please I understand that some people will not go see it because of things hopefully bigger then the bridge being white (honestly didn't distract me so much, I thought the bridge in STV was whiter, this one is just more well lit.) One thing that shouldn't come out is accusing the writers of being lazy, if you haven't seen the film I don't think that's a call you can make, disagree with the direction they went in sure. However this film absolutely nails the relationships IMO and I will be seeing it again, I also understand why some fans probably won't, it is going to be up to the individual and it doesn't make either one less of a fan.
Also by the way I know this was a concern for some fans who may or may not read this board. All my previous dvds are still on the shelf, they didn't disappear after watching the new movie yay!

[DenonCI]

The new movie should have been called Star Trek 90210. Just look at the cast photo!

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

There were at least 3-4 stories that inhabited the same mirror universe from ST:TOS that had evolved because of Spock's push to unseat humans as the galactic overlords. Then Enterprise did a lame 2-parter with a Gorn that didn't look anything like a Gorn, and broke the hard and fast rule that you never see a Tholian (because it's an alternate universe!)

I'm a pretty big fan and I wasn't aware of any "you can't see a Tholian" rule.
What they did was pretty cool, making it crystalline and needing a hot temperature to survive. You also got to see what a web actually did and why it was so dangerous.
If what you mean that the Gorn didn't look like a cheesy man-in-a-suit then they succeeded brilliantly.

And Peter, if you didn't see any truely awful episodes of Enterprise.....wow, there were a lot, especially in the second season. Those were up there with the worst early TNG had to offer. Then they tried to do an arc, and ripped off Space Battleship Yamato hoping no one would notice. It's only when Manny Coto showed up that the show even got coherent, having hit bottom with space nazis. There are 2 things that show a show is about to die- Space Nazis and Space Vampires. And these looked like both That's why Stargate Atlantis never really took off. Space vampires, first episode

There were some bad ones but never any on the level of such TNG "gems" as Code of Honor, Shades of Grey, Justice, Too Short A Season, Skin of Evil, We'll Always Have Paris, Home Soil, Lonely Among Us, The Outrageous Okona, Manhunt, The Royale, and several others that seemed OK at the time but pale in comparison to later shows.

The "Space Nazis" were actually an interesting idea, and showed up at the third season finale, well after Coto joined the team. They actually looked more like the Remans from Nemesis. No vampires, and their leader actually had motivation for what he was doing: they landed on Earth during WWII and helped Hitler in an effort to subjugate the entire planet, the Nazis were a means to an end. Coto helped write those shows BTW.

[NL197]

Originally Posted by merrick97

I also dont get why Voyager was hated so much. I own all 7 seasons on dvd and felt that it had its moments that rank up with their with the best of the Trek

Of course it also had it moments where the show was as bad as any Trek.

My view, Voyager when it was good it was damn good, when it stunk it stunk.

I loved the first season, and loved most of seasons 2 and 3.
Ron Moore temporarily joined the show in season 6 after DS9 ended, only he never fit in there because of Braga and Joe Menosky. He also raised a critical point most people don't realize:

When the show was being developed, the creators were sticking to a continuity that would force the writers to be creative with the ongoing journey home. That's why the first episode stranded them without a full crew, limited supplies of food, energy, weapons and shuttles.

While the food idea was maintained for a while with Neelix serving as a chef, and they introduced the idea of some sort of credits for replicated food, they continuously hit the reset button on most other areas, like endless weapon supplies and shuttles, a larger crew than originally shown, and a spotless ship every episode despite the massive battles and non-conflict-based damage they suffered.

They betrayed those original ideas by pressing that reset too many times.

I stuck with Voyager until the bitter end (which was equal to washing dishes - had to do it but didn't like it at all) and I felt they made their biggest mistake by having them "get home" in the last episode, because it robbed them the opportunity to really explore life after the Delta Quadrant, living in a post-Dominion War federation.

-The remaining Maquis-turned-Starfleet officers...what would have happened to them after getting back? How would they adjust? Everyone they knew was wiped out by the Dominion. Would Starfleet give them all a pass for being a part of the Voyager crew?

-How would Seven of Nine adjust to being home on Earth? Would she attempt to find her living relatives if there were any left? What about any potential bias against her for being a reformed Borg?

-Janeway left behind a husband who eventually moved on without her...what about that?

-Wildman's husband was on Deep Space Nine - did he survive all those battles there? Will he see his daughter?

-Will the Doctor be considered a technological breakthrough because of how evolved he became and live as a "real" person?

-What would become of Tom and B'Elanna? Leave the service and raise a family or something?

-Would Harry finally get promoted and maybe get a chance to rip off Quark?

-What about the surviving Equinox crew? Or the Borg children that stayed aboard?

My point is, I did care about those characters, and it was a damn shame that they didn't bring them back earlier because they could have done so much and gave a lot more meaning to the series after being away for so long. Instead it was "and in the end, they got home....that's it"

But that's all over and done with anyway.

[PeterTHX]

Interesting 2010 easter egg I wasn't aware of until now...

Looks like the US President and the Soviet Premier were Clarke and Kubrick!