PS3 and DVD-A

[frank_t]

Anyone know if it would be possible for the PS3 to playback DVD-A perhaps via firmware?

Curious if there is a hardware limitation that prevents the PS3 from doing this.

[chrisshea]

what the hell is dvd-a

[soapdishbandit]

Originally Posted by chrisshea

what the hell is dvd-a

DVD-Audio. Its the competitor of SACD. Much better sound quality than CD, more dynamics and higher-fidelity. It supports 24/96Khz at 5.1 surround sound. SACD was the OTHER and often thought, BETTER FORMAT, but because both formats were available, confused consumers went with iPod and mp3s instead, thus we are "de-volving" to compressed, SHITTY mp3 sound, and a lack of momentium in the high fidelity world. Mp3s sound fine for rap and other CRAP like that, but not so much for classical, or jazz, where every nuance is heard. SACD and DVD-Audio are the equavalent of Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. One needs to die soon, or else.....suffer the fate of the HD-Audio war.

[soapdishbandit]

Originally Posted by frank_t

Anyone know if it would be possible for the PS3 to playback DVD-A perhaps via firmware?

Curious if there is a hardware limitation that prevents the PS3 from doing this.

To answer your question, I have only an idea for sure. You probably know that you can get DD or DTS via the DVD-Video portion of the disc. Rare DVD-A's have a DTS 96/24 track, which, in my opinion, sound as good as the LPCM track encoded on the DVD-A section. However, thats the only way as of know to get DVD-A with a PS3.

I know that SACD will output via HDMI (if you have a receiver with either HDMI ver 1.2 or 1.3, not sure which, though) for uncompressed PCM 5.1, which SHOULD sound better than outing it via analog outputs (5.1) , albeit, probably not as good as a direct stream of the DSD (Direct Stream Digital, which some newer receivers support encrypted bit-stream of DSD, I believe) Also, I do not know whether the DSD stream can be sent via HDMI.

In PS3's 2.00 firmware upgrade, they allowed for SACDs to playback over fiber-optic and the PS3 transcoded it into either DTS/DD 5.1, depending on your PS3's audio settings preferences. They took it out after that in the 2.01 firmware revision, I think.

Who knows, Sony may decide for DVD-Audio via LPCM in a firmware upgrade, but who knows. I am sure that the PS3 could be programmed to allow for that to happen, its more of a licensing thing, probably.

[crackinhedz]

I dont see why it would not playback on the PS3? its in PCM format anyways and the PS3 reads DVD's?

I don't have a DVD-A disc to know this...but would seem logical? someone correct me.

[soapdishbandit]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

I dont see why it would not playback on the PS3? its in PCM format anyways and the PS3 reads DVD's?

I don't have a DVD-A disc to know this...but would seem logical? someone correct me.

Read above post.

[BTS]

Originally Posted by soapdishbandit

) Also, I do not know whether the DSD stream can be sent via HDMI.

It can

Originally Posted by soapdishbandit

)Who knows, they may decide for DVD-Audio via LPCM, but who knows. I am sure that the PS3 could be programmed to allow for that to happen, its more of a licensing thing, probably.

Doubt it I've never seen a SACD/DVD-A player made by SONY.

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by soapdishbandit

Read above post.

...but I mean, is it a specific decoder needed for DVD-A?

[jdc115]

Originally Posted by soapdishbandit

DVD-Audio. Its the competitor of SACD. Much better sound quality than CD, more dynamics and higher-fidelity. It supports 24/96Khz at 5.1 surround sound. SACD was the OTHER and often thought, BETTER FORMAT, but because both formats were available, confused consumers went with iPod and mp3s instead, thus we are "de-volving" to compressed, SHITTY mp3 sound, and a lack of momentium in the high fidelity world. Mp3s sound fine for rap and other CRAP like that, but not so much for classical, or jazz, where every nuance is heard. SACD and DVD-Audio are the equavalent of Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. One needs to die soon, or else.....suffer the fate of the HD-Audio war.

I don't believe Sony ever released any DVD-audio players as it was competitor to their SACD format. Given that they just dropped SACD from the 40 Gig PS3 I wouldn't look for them taking up support for DVD-audio.

I never quite believed that having both DVD-audio and SACD doomed the next generation audio format. I know it is often cited as the reason that both formats never taking off was because of the format war but even if their was a unified standard, it probably would have been a niche product and crushed by the popularity of MP3. It is a shame, but when it comes to audio most seem happy with low bitrate mp3s.

[soapdishbandit]

Originally Posted by jdc115

I don't believe Sony ever released any DVD-audio players as it was competitor to their SACD format. Given that they just dropped SACD from the 40 Gig PS3 I wouldn't look for them taking up support for DVD-audio.

I never quite believed that having both DVD-audio and SACD doomed the next generation audio format. I know it is often cited as the reason that both formats never taking off was because of the format war but even if their was a unified standard, it probably would have been a niche product and crushed by the popularity of MP3. It is a shame, but when it comes to audio most seem happy with low bitrate mp3s.

Thank you for the comment. I really appriciate your point of view. It is sad that the industry really seemed to settle for lower quality, low bitrate, mp3s and other "compressed" forms of music. I mean, its convinient, and great for the go, but being a professional musician myself (mainly trombone & piano for 15 years and was a disney musician for 4 yrs), I really enjoy when recordings are of the highest quality, especially acoustic recordings (orchestral and some jazz)

I have a pioneer player that does both SACD and DVD-Audio via analog out 5.1. When I CAN, I try to buy SACD Hybrids or Dual Discs or DVD-A's. Or even compact discs, as far as mp3s go, I have only bought 1 mp3 in my life, and that was because I really wanted to hear the song, Terrence Blanchard's "When the Levees Break" AMAZING!!!

*edit* your right, Sony has never released a DVD-Audio in that SACD was partially Sony's baby, so I doubt they will ever allow for the DVD-A (MLP) to be heard on a PS3

[jdc115]

Originally Posted by soapdishbandit

Thank you for the comment. I really appriciate your point of view. It is sad that the industry really seemed to settle for lower quality, low bitrate, mp3s and other "compressed" forms of music. I mean, its convinient, and great for the go, but being a professional musician myself (mainly trombone & piano for 15 years and was a disney musician for 4 yrs), I really enjoy when recordings are of the highest quality, especially acoustic recordings (orchestral and some jazz)

I have a pioneer player that does both SACD and DVD-Audio via analog out 5.1. When I CAN, I try to buy SACD Hybrids or Dual Discs or DVD-A's. Or even compact discs, as far as mp3s go, I have only bought 1 mp3 in my life, and that was because I really wanted to hear the song, Terrence Blanchard's "When the Levees Break" AMAZING!!!

*edit* your right, Sony has never released a DVD-Audio in that SACD was partially Sony's baby, so I doubt they will ever allow for the DVD-A (MLP) to be heard on a PS3

I have a Denon player that also plays both. I still occasionally buy SACDs, other then Pink Floyd's DSOTM, they are all jazz or classical. My MP3s (or AAC) are just from my own CDs that I will sometimes use when having a party so I don't have to switch disks. I don't have any DVD-audio disks but sometimes tempted to get a few but not sure I want even another format around when I would like to reduce the number of players I have

[Brain Sturgeon]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

...but I mean, is it a specific decoder needed for DVD-A?

Yes-- most DVD-A's are encoded with MLP. You need a player that will specifically decode this, although most DVD-A's also contain a DD or DTS track to make it "backward compatible" with standard DVD players.

I was more of a DVD-A fan myself during the HD audio war. Having heard both DVD-A and SACD, both are enormous improvements over CD. The audio differences between the two are hard to argue, as both can sound spectacular on the proper set-up. The war between these two was much less clear cut, in terms of specs/quality, than then BD vs. HD DVD war has been. It has been a godawful shame that both of these formats have been left to slowly bleed to death while highly compressed, two channel audio thrives.

Anyone who doubts the quality of DVD-A against SACD should get a hold of the (free!) 24/96 MLP version of Pink Floyd's DSOTM from the original Alan Parsons Quad Mix 1/2" master tape. I have compared this version to the commercial SACD version, and the DVD-A version, IMHO, is better. Although, the commercial SACD was mixed by James Guthrie.

BTW, for all you Panny DMP-BD10 owners out there-- it plays DVD-A quite well.

AFAIK, the PS3 will not play the multichannel MLP track off of a DVD-A. It will play the DD or DTS track from the DVD-V portion of the disc, if available.

[crackinhedz]

thanks for summing it up Brain.

[Sir Terrence]

Originally Posted by Brain Sturgeon

Yes-- most DVD-A's are encoded with MLP. You need a player that will specifically decode this, although most DVD-A's also contain a DD or DTS track to make it "backward compatible" with standard DVD players.

I was more of a DVD-A fan myself during the HD audio war. Having heard both DVD-A and SACD, both are enormous improvements over CD. The audio differences between the two are hard to argue, as both can sound spectacular on the proper set-up. The war between these two was much less clear cut, in terms of specs/quality, than then BD vs. HD DVD war has been. It has been a godawful shame that both of these formats have been left to slowly bleed to death while highly compressed, two channel audio thrives.

Anyone who doubts the quality of DVD-A against SACD should get a hold of the (free!) 24/96 MLP version of Pink Floyd's DSOTM from the original Alan Parsons Quad Mix 1/2" master tape. I have compared this version to the commercial SACD version, and the DVD-A version, IMHO, is better. Although, the commercial SACD was mixed by James Guthrie.

BTW, for all you Panny DMP-BD10 owners out there-- it plays DVD-A quite well.

AFAIK, the PS3 will not play the multichannel MLP track off of a DVD-A. It will play the DD or DTS track from the DVD-V portion of the disc, if available.

Now if you are really willing to make a comparison, make it between the live feed from the board, SACD and DVD-A. I worked on two big band 5.1 projects and we did just that. While neither of them sounded exactly like the live feed, SACD came the closest. The DVD-A feed sounded very digital, unlike the SACD which sounded much like the analog live feed we were getting from the board. I had no opinion of either formats until that day. I was convinced that SACD was superior to DVD-A even though we used meitners D/A converters for DVD-A, and Meitners DSD processor for SACD. All switching was blind, nobody knew which was which except the person doing the switching.

[jdc115]

Originally Posted by Brain Sturgeon

I was more of a DVD-A fan myself during the HD audio war. Having heard both DVD-A and SACD, both are enormous improvements over CD. The audio differences between the two are hard to argue, as both can sound spectacular on the proper set-up.

I think that was the problem with DVD-A and SACD, both sound spectacular on a proper setup. Outside of the audiophiles, not enough people have proper setups to take advantage of the improvements in DVD-audio and SACD. But that is not the same for HD video, just having a HDTV can bring a big change even without having a properly setup HT system. I know many of my friends think I am nut on what I spent on speakers (which are modest to what is out there). Yet if I were to spend twice that amount on a TV it would be quite reasonable to them.

[soapdishbandit]

So, will we ever have SA-BluRay or HD-DVD-A? maybe 32 bit sound at 400+ K and 8.2. That would be sweet to hear Pink Floyd in that format. Heh!

[Brain Sturgeon]

Originally Posted by Sir Terrence

Now if you are really willing to make a comparison, make it between the live feed from the board, SACD and DVD-A. I worked on two big band 5.1 projects and we did just that. While neither of them sounded exactly like the live feed, SACD came the closest. The DVD-A feed sounded very digital, unlike the SACD which sounded much like the analog live feed we were getting from the board. I had no opinion of either formats until that day. I was convinced that SACD was superior to DVD-A even though we used meitners D/A converters for DVD-A, and Meitners DSD processor for SACD. All switching was blind, nobody knew which was which except the person doing the switching.

I would love to hear this comparison in an blind A-B test. When SACD first came out, the Lipschitz paper "1-bit, ΔΣ conversion is unsuitable for high quality applications" threw me into the PCM/MLP (DVD-A) corner over DSD. This, of course, has been passionately debated since that time. At the end of the day, both can sound great; but I would love for my ears to be the judge of the two in an unbiased listening enviroment.

Originally Posted by jdc115

I think that was the problem with DVD-A and SACD, both sound spectacular on a proper setup. Outside of the audiophiles, not enough people have proper setups to take advantage of the improvements in DVD-audio and SACD. But that is not the same for HD video, just having a HDTV can bring a big change even without having a properly setup HT system. I know many of my friends think I am nut on what I spent on speakers (which are modest to what is out there). Yet if I were to spend twice that amount on a TV it would be quite reasonable to them.

Agreed. My display is, by far, the cheapest part of my home theatre (something below 10%).

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

thanks for summing it up Brain.

You're most welcome crackin'

[frank_t]

Originally Posted by soapdishbandit

DVD-Audio. Its the competitor of SACD. Much better sound quality than CD, more dynamics and higher-fidelity. It supports 24/96Khz at 5.1 surround sound. SACD was the OTHER and often thought, BETTER FORMAT, but because both formats were available, confused consumers went with iPod and mp3s instead, thus we are "de-volving" to compressed, SHITTY mp3 sound, and a lack of momentium in the high fidelity world. Mp3s sound fine for rap and other CRAP like that, but not so much for classical, or jazz, where every nuance is heard. SACD and DVD-Audio are the equavalent of Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. One needs to die soon, or else.....suffer the fate of the HD-Audio war.

amen brother! could not have written it better myself

[frank_t]

i personally prefer SACD (Tommy, Dylan, Elton John all sound wonderful!), but managed to amass some decent DVD-As, even a couple dual-discs (which my denon handles fine).

most recently I have all genesis title from 1976 to their last album on SACD. they sound wonderful. also managed to grab some of the moody blues on SACD in their original 4 channel audio!

anyway, i was listening to the Fellowship of the Ring complete recordings on DVD-A and was just wondering if there was any technical reason the PS3 could not do it.

sounds like no one really knows, but agreed that Sony would probably not bother.

Shame they removed SACD from the 40 GB PS3.

[reiella]

Originally Posted by jdc115

I think that was the problem with DVD-A and SACD, both sound spectacular on a proper setup. Outside of the audiophiles, not enough people have proper setups to take advantage of the improvements in DVD-audio and SACD. But that is not the same for HD video, just having a HDTV can bring a big change even without having a properly setup HT system. I know many of my friends think I am nut on what I spent on speakers (which are modest to what is out there). Yet if I were to spend twice that amount on a TV it would be quite reasonable to them.

Pretty much, to most people, they are going to be seen as "5.1 CDs". And 5.1 still is primarily a home thing, with a few exceptions [that may have become the rule had one of them been a clear successor].