LG Announces Dual Format Player - Page 3 - Blu-ray Forum

marzetta7 · 01-04-2007, 03:18 PM

Meh, I can't stand the thought of a dual format player personally. I remember everyone (at least most) rallying for ONE unified format from the beginning as to avoid DVD+, DVD-, etc fiasco.

I just don't understand why LG does this all for the sake of one studio and one primary hardware backer, Toshiba? Why, when you could save yourself the time and headache by backing the format with the most support. It boggles my mind.

Maximus · 01-04-2007, 03:19 PM

I think that this is more than likely going to be a BD player with HD DVD tacked on after the fact. LG have already shown the world their BD player, but no HD DVD player. If this is true, BDs should play pretty well, while HD DVDs may have some compatibility issues. Normal people are just going to think that this is a problem that is inherent with HD DVD and stop buying them where the BD is available.

In the long-term if LG are the only major company to produce combo players then it might help BD as they are high up in the BDA and it was their chosen format, this is just their attempt to end the war.

People forget that LG are still primarily a BD company. I doubt that this combo player will ever see the sales floor, they are just trying t build up some buzz for High definition discs, then release a BD player already scheduled for March in EU.

Spankey · 01-04-2007, 03:25 PM

I don't know how to look at this. I think Brian was right, when he noticed that the people really excited by this are HD-DVD fanboys. Why? They were in trouble. The bought discs that would not be playable if HD-DVD died. Bl-ray has been gaining steady momentum and HD-DVD's days appeared numbered even to some die-hards. A combo player allows them to get into Blu-ray and keep their current library.

There is no need for HD-DVD. The added storage of Blu-ray is its biggests advantage. Any dual format allows HD-DVD to hang on a bit longer until catalog titles are cheap enough for the early adopters of HD-DVD to double dip.

My crystal ball? Expect Toshiba to announce a combo player in the not too distant future.

Zvi · 01-04-2007, 03:33 PM

I dunno what to make of all this either. Pretty clear it will prolong format war. On the other hand neutral studos were producing single masters anyway, that is lowest common denominator. Although Warner wa sgonna use LPCM right? Do they have reasons to stop supporting BD because of the uiversal player? I donno, logicaly not.

In the end I think it's still the content. If 90% of the discs in circulation will be BDs then it's done, whether or not universal player exists.

JTK · 01-04-2007, 03:42 PM

Today's WSJ confirms this as well. They say the LG player will play both formats but they expect bugs because the BD data is near the outside of the disc and HD-DVD data more towards the center. (Did I get that right?)

There's also concerns about the extra features of both formats, etc.

The LG player will be shown at CES next week and MSRP is around $1200 or so supposedly.

HP will also be presenting something along these lines, but it's not clear if it's a home theater player or PC drives. Probably PC related.

Today's Wall Street Journal really did a slam bang, objective analysis of this, the dual player situation and what's expected over the next couple of years.

If any of you have a way to get to today's WSJ, you really owe it to yourself to read this article.

There's a lot of facts, numbers, and FUD killing figures in this piece.

It's too long for me to try and type out manually and I refuse to pay the extra money for WSJ.com myself.

If anyone does have that, please quote it and attribute it here, but in any event: Try and find a way to read this thing. Well worth your time.

(The WSJ's new format is a lot more user friendly to read, in general. )

There was a brief mention of "other companies will follow suit" in regards to dual format, but nothing specific was mentioned past that. Marzetta, Brian, and some others have pretty much boiled it down to where I feel about all of this.

The analysts predict probably another two years of a format war environment, give or take, even with all of this, FWIW.

mbslrm · 01-04-2007, 03:57 PM

Will the BDA (or even the HD DVD forum) even give LG the licenses to use market this?

JTK · 01-04-2007, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbslrm

Will the BDA (or even the HD DVD forum) even give LG the licenses to use market this?

Interesting question, but it's hard to imagine that LG would have been able to come even this far otherwise.

mbslrm · 01-04-2007, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTK

Interesting question, but it's hard to imagine that LG would have been able to come even this far otherwise.

LG could make whatever they want and showcase it, but if they don't get the licenses, it will never hit shelves.

BTBuck1 · 01-04-2007, 04:11 PM

I personally think that this whole thing by warner and LG will only cause more confusion than helping anything.

If I am a dumb ass consumer I am going to say, ok this one says Blu-Ray, This HDDVD, This says combo, this says dual format...Okay this is too stressful, i'll stick with DVD because I don't want to get burnt.

I am angry at this. I am someone who owns both formats, and you would think I would be in support of this...but I'm not, I think it's ludicris. Especially one disc for both, it defeats the point of either format.
HDDVD has some benefits over Blu-Ray, And Blu-Ray definately has more over HDDVD, and combining them I feel will only hurt blu-ray further because Warner will take the easy way out from here on out, designing the disc around HDDVD spec and thus never taking advantage of what blu-ray has to offer in terms of space.

I guess I will just continue to back Blu-Ray whole heartedly and buy universal titles only on HDDVD since i can't get them on BD and nothing more. Hopefully a year from now there will be no more of all this crazyness.

Deciazulado · 01-04-2007, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

If people here think BD has gained enough traction to make Universal notice, then there is no point in prolonging the "war". CES 2007 and its many PR announcements will be good indicators of this traction.

This announcements are the sort of Atomic Bomb tactic thrown to derail BD sales.

Who does this announcement affect mostly? The persons that DON"T have a player yet. What is happening right now? BD player and BD disc sales are surpassing HD DVD sales, What is this designed to do: Make anyone who was thinking of buying a player, any player , stop just before reaching for a credit card and say, blimey, I'n not gonna buy now, I'll wait for the Dual Player now!
How many Toshiba units were gonna sell anyway? not as many as Blu-ray units from several manufacturers! So it's an Atomic Bomb tactic thrown into the field even if it takes its own diminishing soldiers out too. As long as player sales are halted. Just as the "enemy' is showing the superior force.

What research goes onto this? who stands more to benefit if people just wait more months for the Dual player instead of buying a disc player now?
Slow HD DVD player sales? From one manufacturer? Expendable troops.

So I think that's the big surprise for CES that the "other" team had, when they answered to the question of "Are you gonna get more CE companies making HD DVD players?". A Doomsday Weapon.

This is beneath the planet of the Apes!

In my opinion we should let the Steamroller train just splat this cow thrown in it's path as the train is arriving at the station.

Spankey · 01-04-2007, 05:21 PM

I still have to ask, "Who will buy this player?" HD-DVD people that want access to Blu-ray. Then again, the player is $1200. Wasn't the appeal of HD-DVD cost? Now Warner wants to make HD-DVD/Blu-ray dual discs. Wasn't another argument in favor of HD-DVD disc manufacturing?

Right now, the only reason to buy an HD-DVD titles is for a handful of Universal movies. Every other title is available, or will be available, on Blu-ray. Let the HD-DVD freaks think this is the best thing to come along. It only means they will have to buy into Blu-ray.

mbslrm · 01-04-2007, 05:34 PM

I hear blu ray equipped PS3s are outselling X360 HD DVD add ons 5 to 1.

JTK · 01-04-2007, 05:41 PM

I wish I had some concrete numbers on stuff like that.

nextgenwars.com maybe?

Even today's WSJ said, and I paraphrase/half ass quote:

"HD-DVD was outselling BD by a 2:1 margin before the PS3 came out and that margin has been closing appreciably ever since."

I smell a rat with all of this as well. I think Deci hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, these tactics tend to always have a certain degree of success, at least short term.

Hats off to MS: This is the best FUD campaign they've run yet.

onyxx · 01-04-2007, 05:58 PM

I wont believe it until I see it, this could be a very well fabricated rumor!

takezo · 01-04-2007, 05:59 PM

Dual format HD-Player will be far to expensive to release, even if BDA and DVD forum aproved it. How many people are willing to pay 1,600 for a dual format player.

What tech forum junkies forget, is that the mas public are numb nut penny pinchers. HD home video is still conisderd a niche market that is inching its way to mainstream. In fact there are tons of people who can't distinguish the diffrence between DVD and either HD format. Thats why people still buy DVDs, because you can get DVDs cheap and players are cheap. It's true to some effect, HD at even 1080p does not have a night to day difference from DVD as DVD did to VHS.

Home Theatre enthusiast are divided into two parties. HD-DVD and Blu-ray. Which is better? Right now, interms of picture quality, they are even. However Blu-ray is the superior format.

What the public needs is one format. LG's Dual Format player will be a god send to Enthusiast who want to play all HD formats now. However when BLu-ray wins, all movies will eventually be released on Blu-ray.

Just keep buying BLu-ray, get friends and family to buy Blu-ray, then all problems will be solved. Then in a few years you will see BLu-ray movies for 10 bucks, and Players for $40. HD-dVd will be all but forgotten.

JTK · 01-04-2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onyxx

I wont believe it until I see it, this could be a very well fabricated rumor!

It's possible. We certainly have seen this particular item and other things as rumors several times.

I will say this though: This is certainly the most sophisticated rumor I've ever seen, especially if it's being taken as serious even by mainstream media.

CES is this coming Sunday, so we'll all know in very short order what is and isn't actually true.

onyxx · 01-04-2007, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbslrm

I hear blu ray equipped PS3s are outselling X360 HD DVD add ons 5 to 1.

That was in the beginning of December, now the 360 HD DVD add on is around 50-60k versus the 1.3M PS3 sold, so its more like 15-1 now.

http://www.vgcharts.org/

dialog_gvf · 01-04-2007, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTK

The LG player will be shown at CES next week and MSRP is around $1200 or so supposedly.

At that price you'd have to be pretty desperate for Universal titles and single box.

Gary

mbslrm · 01-04-2007, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onyxx

That was in the beginning of December, now the 360 HD DVD add on is around 50-60k versus the 1.3M PS3 sold, so its more like 15-1 now.

http://www.vgcharts.org/

The more, the merrier....

JTK · 01-04-2007, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

At that price you'd have to be pretty desperate for Universal titles and single box.

Gary

Indeed.

01-04-2007, 03:42 PM	#45
JTK Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jan 2006 Location:www.blurayoasis.com	Today's WSJ confirms this as well. They say the LG player will play both formats but they expect bugs because the BD data is near the outside of the disc and HD-DVD data more towards the center. (Did I get that right?) There's also concerns about the extra features of both formats, etc. The LG player will be shown at CES next week and MSRP is around $1200 or so supposedly. HP will also be presenting something along these lines, but it's not clear if it's a home theater player or PC drives. Probably PC related. Today's Wall Street Journal really did a slam bang, objective analysis of this, the dual player situation and what's expected over the next couple of years. If any of you have a way to get to today's WSJ, you really owe it to yourself to read this article. There's a lot of facts, numbers, and FUD killing figures in this piece. It's too long for me to try and type out manually and I refuse to pay the extra money for WSJ.com myself. If anyone does have that, please quote it and attribute it here, but in any event: Try and find a way to read this thing. Well worth your time. (The WSJ's new format is a lot more user friendly to read, in general. ) There was a brief mention of "other companies will follow suit" in regards to dual format, but nothing specific was mentioned past that. Marzetta, Brian, and some others have pretty much boiled it down to where I feel about all of this. The analysts predict probably another two years of a format war environment, give or take, even with all of this, FWIW. Last edited by JTK; 01-04-2007 at 03:49 PM.

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01-04-2007, 03:18 PM	#41
marzetta7 Special Member Member since:Feb 2006	Meh, I can't stand the thought of a dual format player personally. I remember everyone (at least most) rallying for ONE unified format from the beginning as to avoid DVD+, DVD-, etc fiasco. I just don't understand why LG does this all for the sake of one studio and one primary hardware backer, Toshiba? Why, when you could save yourself the time and headache by backing the format with the most support. It boggles my mind.

01-04-2007, 03:19 PM	#42
Maximus Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Nov 2006	I think that this is more than likely going to be a BD player with HD DVD tacked on after the fact. LG have already shown the world their BD player, but no HD DVD player. If this is true, BDs should play pretty well, while HD DVDs may have some compatibility issues. Normal people are just going to think that this is a problem that is inherent with HD DVD and stop buying them where the BD is available. In the long-term if LG are the only major company to produce combo players then it might help BD as they are high up in the BDA and it was their chosen format, this is just their attempt to end the war. People forget that LG are still primarily a BD company. I doubt that this combo player will ever see the sales floor, they are just trying t build up some buzz for High definition discs, then release a BD player already scheduled for March in EU.

01-04-2007, 03:25 PM	#43
Spankey Power Member Member since:Oct 2006	I don't know how to look at this. I think Brian was right, when he noticed that the people really excited by this are HD-DVD fanboys. Why? They were in trouble. The bought discs that would not be playable if HD-DVD died. Bl-ray has been gaining steady momentum and HD-DVD's days appeared numbered even to some die-hards. A combo player allows them to get into Blu-ray and keep their current library. There is no need for HD-DVD. The added storage of Blu-ray is its biggests advantage. Any dual format allows HD-DVD to hang on a bit longer until catalog titles are cheap enough for the early adopters of HD-DVD to double dip. My crystal ball? Expect Toshiba to announce a combo player in the not too distant future.

01-04-2007, 03:33 PM	#44
Zvi Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jul 2006 Blu-ray collection:121	I dunno what to make of all this either. Pretty clear it will prolong format war. On the other hand neutral studos were producing single masters anyway, that is lowest common denominator. Although Warner wa sgonna use LPCM right? Do they have reasons to stop supporting BD because of the uiversal player? I donno, logicaly not. In the end I think it's still the content. If 90% of the discs in circulation will be BDs then it's done, whether or not universal player exists.

01-04-2007, 03:57 PM	#46
mbslrm Active Member Member since:Dec 2006 Location:Mississauga, ON	Will the BDA (or even the HD DVD forum) even give LG the licenses to use market this?

01-04-2007, 04:11 PM	#49
BTBuck1 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Oceanside, CA. Blu-ray collection:507 DVD collection:1	I personally think that this whole thing by warner and LG will only cause more confusion than helping anything. If I am a dumb ass consumer I am going to say, ok this one says Blu-Ray, This HDDVD, This says combo, this says dual format...Okay this is too stressful, i'll stick with DVD because I don't want to get burnt. I am angry at this. I am someone who owns both formats, and you would think I would be in support of this...but I'm not, I think it's ludicris. Especially one disc for both, it defeats the point of either format. HDDVD has some benefits over Blu-Ray, And Blu-Ray definately has more over HDDVD, and combining them I feel will only hurt blu-ray further because Warner will take the easy way out from here on out, designing the disc around HDDVD spec and thus never taking advantage of what blu-ray has to offer in terms of space. I guess I will just continue to back Blu-Ray whole heartedly and buy universal titles only on HDDVD since i can't get them on BD and nothing more. Hopefully a year from now there will be no more of all this crazyness.

01-04-2007, 05:21 PM	#51
Spankey Power Member Member since:Oct 2006	I still have to ask, "Who will buy this player?" HD-DVD people that want access to Blu-ray. Then again, the player is $1200. Wasn't the appeal of HD-DVD cost? Now Warner wants to make HD-DVD/Blu-ray dual discs. Wasn't another argument in favor of HD-DVD disc manufacturing? Right now, the only reason to buy an HD-DVD titles is for a handful of Universal movies. Every other title is available, or will be available, on Blu-ray. Let the HD-DVD freaks think this is the best thing to come along. It only means they will have to buy into Blu-ray.

01-04-2007, 05:34 PM	#52
mbslrm Active Member Member since:Dec 2006 Location:Mississauga, ON	I hear blu ray equipped PS3s are outselling X360 HD DVD add ons 5 to 1.

01-04-2007, 05:41 PM	#53
JTK Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jan 2006 Location:www.blurayoasis.com	I wish I had some concrete numbers on stuff like that. nextgenwars.com maybe? Even today's WSJ said, and I paraphrase/half ass quote: "HD-DVD was outselling BD by a 2:1 margin before the PS3 came out and that margin has been closing appreciably ever since." I smell a rat with all of this as well. I think Deci hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, these tactics tend to always have a certain degree of success, at least short term. Hats off to MS: This is the best FUD campaign they've run yet.

01-04-2007, 05:58 PM	#54
onyxx Active Member Member since:Nov 2006 Blu-ray collection:214	I wont believe it until I see it, this could be a very well fabricated rumor!

01-04-2007, 05:59 PM	#55
takezo Active Member Member since:Aug 2006	Dual format HD-Player will be far to expensive to release, even if BDA and DVD forum aproved it. How many people are willing to pay 1,600 for a dual format player. What tech forum junkies forget, is that the mas public are numb nut penny pinchers. HD home video is still conisderd a niche market that is inching its way to mainstream. In fact there are tons of people who can't distinguish the diffrence between DVD and either HD format. Thats why people still buy DVDs, because you can get DVDs cheap and players are cheap. It's true to some effect, HD at even 1080p does not have a night to day difference from DVD as DVD did to VHS. Home Theatre enthusiast are divided into two parties. HD-DVD and Blu-ray. Which is better? Right now, interms of picture quality, they are even. However Blu-ray is the superior format. What the public needs is one format. LG's Dual Format player will be a god send to Enthusiast who want to play all HD formats now. However when BLu-ray wins, all movies will eventually be released on Blu-ray. Just keep buying BLu-ray, get friends and family to buy Blu-ray, then all problems will be solved. Then in a few years you will see BLu-ray movies for 10 bucks, and Players for $40. HD-dVd will be all but forgotten.

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