Warner Brothers and missed opportunities

[lgans316]

Medium to High profile titles that could have been benefited from higher bit rates

Legend:

Movie Size / Disc Size in bytes - 14,949,495,432 bytes = 14.9 GB
TBR = Total Bit Rate (Mbps)
AVBR = Average Video Bit Rate (Mbps)

AVBR on Blus from other Studios: 21+ Mbps

Title							Codec	Length	Movie Size	Disc Size	TBR	AVBR	Main Audio Track	Secondary Audio Track
-----							------	-------	--------------	--------------	-------	-------	-----------------	---------------------
The Perfect Storm				        VC-1	2:09:49	27,576,938,496	30,490,657,664	28.32	16.86	Dolby TrueHD 5.1 1878Kbps (48kHz/16-bit)	DD AC3 5.1-EX 640Kbps
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest		                VC-1	2:13:42	17,720,721,408	21,099,357,516	17.67	14.25	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps	DD AC3 1.0 192Kbps
Lady in the Water                                       VC-1    1:49:39 11,398,526,976  14,159,299,772  13.86   10.96   DD AC3 5.1-EX 640Kbps
Blood Diamond						VC-1	2:23:21	22,440,222,720 ~30,563,539,040	20.87	12.71	LPCM 5.1 4608Kbps	DD AC3 5.1  640Kbps
The Departed						VC-1	2:31:18	26,024,927,232	28,616,363,258	22.93	14.86	LPCM 5.1 4608Kbps	DD AC3 5.1  640Kbps
Batman Begins						VC-1	2:20:02	23,792,474,112	35,115,738,871	22.65	13.70	Dolby TrueHD 5.1	DD AC3 5.1  640Kbps
(EU) Beowulf: Director's Cut (2007)			VC-1	1:54:42	19,898,591,232 ~31,281,197,732	23.13	14.85	Dolby TrueHD 5.1	DD AC3 5.1  640Kbps
I Am Legend: Theatrical Version				VC-1	1:40:31	16,347,887,616	40,341,045,500	21.68	16.14	Dolby TrueHD 5.1	DD AC3 5.1  640Kbps
	I Am Legend: Alternate Version			VC-1	1:43:53	17,440,892,928			22.38	16.30	Dolby TrueHD 5.1	DD AC3 5.1  640Kbps
Twister (1996)						VC-1	1:53:02	21,806,426,112	27,898,622,420	25.72	18.96	Dolby TrueHD 5.1	DD AC3 5.1  640Kbps
V for Vendetta						VC-1	2:12:32	22,824,474,624	27,375,237,016	22.96	12.54	Dolby TrueHD 5.1	DD AC3 5.1  448Kbps
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire			VC-1	2:37:05	29,723,215,872	40,630,700,204	25.22	12.87	LPCM 5.1 4608Kbps	DD AC3 5.1  448Kbps
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix		VC-1	2:18:14	30,447,593,472	47,708,612,604	29.36	13.79	LPCM 5.1 4608Kbps	DD AC3 5.1  640Kbps

Medium to High profile titles from could have benefited from lossless audio and higher bit rates considering the availability of enough free space

Title							Codec	Length	Movie Size	Disc Size	TBR AVBR	Main Audio Track	Secondary Audio Track
-----							------	-------	--------------	--------------	-------	-------	-----------------	---------------------
16 Blocks						VC-1	1:41:45	13,076,017,152	14,904,920,290	17.13	14.74	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
The Assassination of JesseJames by the Coward RobertFordVC-1	2:39:40	22,419,271,680	23,947,005,830	18.72	15.70	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
The Aviator (2004)					VC-1	2:50:05	22,635,448,320 ~29,471,955,608	17.74	14.90	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
Batman: Gotham Knight					VC-1	1:15:59	13,542,494,208	20,927,801,268	23.76	20.49	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
Corpse Bride						VC-1	1:17:11	12,968,300,544	16,524,251,954	22.40	18.43	DD AC3 5.1-EX 640Kbps
Enter the Dragon (jaggies)				VC-1	1:42:33	17,577,074,688	31,387,827,272	22.85	20.36	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
The Fugitive (jaggies)					MPEG-2	2:10:14	22,771,599,360	24,822,268,650	23.31	20.72	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
Goodfellas						VC-1	2:25:26	20,702,767,104	31,033,092,694	18.98	16.20	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
Happy Feet						VC-1	1:48:31	13,099,898,880	14,949,495,432	16.09	13.07	DD AC3 5.1-EX 640Kbps
The Last Samurai					VC-1	2:34:11	24,451,921,920	31,339,240,240	21.14	18.24	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
Mad Max 2 (The Road Warrior)				VC-1	1:35:30	17,552,056,320	18,050,269,710	24.50	21.93	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
Michael Clayton						VC-1	1:59:55	17,731,037,184	18,340,987,450	19.71	16.37	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
Million Dollar Baby					VC-1	2:12:35							DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
Ocean's Eleven (2001)					VC-1	1:56:33	22,413,864,960 ~25,793,715,140	25.64	18.42	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
Ocean's Twelve						VC-1	2:05:18	21,636,950,016 ~26,602,308,112	23.02	16.07	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
Ocean's Thirteen					VC-1	2:02:08	18,257,707,008	21,817,303,960	19.93	16.95	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
The Phantom of the Opera (2004)				VC-1	2:21:05	18,751,180,800	24,702,742,806	17.72	15.37	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
Superman Returns					VC-1	2:34:19	20,626,040,832	28,898,105,064	17.82	14.82	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
Superman: Special Edition				VC-1	2:31:25	24,979,249,152	29,749,466,608	21.99	18.54	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
Training Day						MPEG-2	2:02:02	15,031,695,360	17,907,066,290	16.42	13.63	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
(EU) Training Day					VC-1	2:02:02	18,353,264,640 ~21,500,017,192	20.05	16.42	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines (1080i59.94)		VC-1	1:49:00	14,008,811,520	31,303,348,231	17.13	13.52	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
	Terminator 3 PiP Secondary Encode		VC-1	1:48:59	15,369,861,120			18.80	17.71	DD AC3 2.0 192Kbps
Unforgiven						VC-1	2:10:40	17,973,098,496	29,480,045,390	18.33	15.94	DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps

Check out the amount of space wasted on Goodfellas, Happy Feet, Training Day, Last Samurai, T3, Ocean's Trilogy, Superman Returns and Michael Clayton that doesn't contain lossless audio.

Matrix Trilogy HD DVD disc info

Sci-fi movie with plenty of action scenes that may require high bit rates to mitigate film artefacts. Let's keep in mind that Revolutions exhibited macroblocking.

The Matrix				VC-1	2:16:09	23,014,805,504*~25,954,501,000	22.53  ~17.93	Dolby TrueHD 5.1 16-bit	Yes	DDPlus 5.1  640Kbps
The Matrix Reloaded			VC-1	2:18:07	20,500,867,072*~26,691,056,502	19.79  ~15.19	Dolby TrueHD 5.1 16-bit	Yes	DDPlus 5.1  640Kbps
The Matrix Revolutions			VC-1	2:09:08	19,347,277,824*~22,853,133,346	19.97  ~15.37	Dolby TrueHD 5.1 16-bit	Yes	DDPlus 5.1  640Kbps

New Line titles with low bit rate encodes.

Rush Hour 3					VC-1	1:30:47	15,472,195,584	28,077,311,094	22.72	15.86		DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1
	Rush Hour 3 PiP Secondary Encode	VC-1	1:30:47	11,545,509,888			16.95	15.90		DTS 2.0 255Kbps 24-bit
Hairspray (2007)				VC-1	1:56:07	18,912,829,440	41,847,818,318	21.71	13.99		DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1
	Hairspray (2007) PiP Secondary Encode	VC-1	1:56:07	14,643,456,000			16.81	13.99		DTS 5.1 1509Kbps 24-bit
Pan's Labyrinth					VC-1	1:59:09	20,214,595,584	47,059,779,004	22.62	15.76		DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1
	Pan's Labyrinth PiP Secondary Encode	VC-1	1:59:09	16,366,344,192			18.31	15.74		DTS 5.1 1509Kbps 24-bit

Dirty Harry: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Dirty Harry: Ultimate Collector's Edition
	Dirty Harry				VC-1	1:42:29	23,751,659,520	39,028,323,532	30.90	23.61	Dolby TrueHD 5.1	DD AC3 5.1  640Kbps
	Magnum Force				VC-1	2:02:33	29,596,028,928	32,550,769,660	32.20	25.10	Dolby TrueHD 5.1	DD AC3 5.1  640Kbps
	The Enforcer				VC-1	1:36:36	20,345,948,160	23,440,195,180	28.08	20.95	Dolby TrueHD 5.1	DD AC3 5.1  640Kbps
	Sudden Impact				VC-1	1:57:09	22,726,244,352	24,003,400,456	25.86	18.86	Dolby TrueHD 5.1	DD AC3 5.1  640Kbps
	The Dead Pool				VC-1	1:31:13	20,857,798,656	23,181,576,576	30.48	22.96	Dolby TrueHD 5.1	DD AC3 5.1  640Kbps

[Arecsa]

Originally Posted by lgans316

Checkout the amount of space wasted on Happy Feet, Training Day, Last Samurai, T3, Ocean's Trilogy, Superman Returns and Michael Clayton that doesn't contain lossless audio.

Really baffling decisions here from the clowns running the show at WB. And from what we've seen so far from Warner and their catch up Blu-ray titles that were HD DVD exclusive, we wont be getting any new Matrix encodes.

[Blu Titan]

Warner needs to get its act together. Not having HD sound in Blu-ray movies is unacceptable.

[DetroitSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

Not having HD sound in Blu-ray movies is unacceptable.

Speaking of this, has it been confirmed if "The Perfect Storm" will have HD sound?

[UTVOL06]

I thought that once WB officially dropped HD-DUD that we would start to see high bitrate encodes like what we got from New Line Cinema in Shoot'em UP and Rush Hour 3....alas WB does not give a rat's a$$ about video quality or atleast matching other studio's quality encodes. They have had plenty of time now to show us what they can do being Blu-exclusive and have failed.

WB can keep their VC-1 encodes for all I care, but give us 30+Mbps encodes please.

[ryoohki]

Goblet of fire have quite a few scene with HEAVy Macroblocking and banding in the sky. Mostly when they show you the castle at dawn .. the sky and moving and dacing a lot..

[saprano]

Originally Posted by DetroitSportsFan

Speaking of this, has it been confirmed if "The Perfect Storm" will have HD sound?

Doesn't look like it https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=191

[RobertB]

Personaly speaking I will not buy any more movies from WB that comes without a decent Dolby True HD or DTS HD MA soundtrack. I can live with slightly soft pictures but I cant accept paper-thin 600 kbps soundtracks anymore.

WB needs to step up their game and give us much better encodes. It's like some of their titles are screaming "double-dip" at me.

That said, I will offcourse buy older movies and accept lower bitrate soundtracks.

[caliminius]

Originally Posted by RobertB

Personaly speaking I will not buy any more movies from WB that comes without a decent Dolby True HD or DTS HD MA soundtrack. I can live with slightly soft pictures but I cant accept paper-thin 600 kbps soundtracks anymore.

WB needs to step up their game and give us much better encodes. It's like some of their titles are screaming "double-dip" at me.

That said, I will of course buy older movies and accept lower bitrate soundtracks.

You should feel lucky you can enjoy the lossless soundtracks. I have yet to upgrade to a new receiver with HDMI and the DD 5.1 English track on V for Vendetta is really pathetic especially when all of the foreign language DD 5.1 tracks sound significantly better (the English was at 448kbps while all the foreign tracks were at 640kbps).

I guess I should count myself lucky that there really aren't that many Warner movies I'm interested in. I just hope they get their act together before the Matrix films come out.

[alexakajeff]

Warner Brothers does it once again.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by alexakajeff

Warner Brothers does it once again.

... does what once again?

[X400]

Originally Posted by RobertB

Personaly speaking I will not buy any more movies from WB that comes without a decent Dolby True HD or DTS HD MA soundtrack. I can live with slightly soft pictures but I cant accept paper-thin 600 kbps soundtracks anymore.

WB needs to step up their game and give us much better encodes. It's like some of their titles are screaming "double-dip" at me.

totally agree, i fumed when i saw T3 was dolbydigital -_-

[bykes]

I just watched Batman Begins. I gotta say Fox, Sony and Disney do a much better job at the transfer. Who agrees?

[BirdManJr]

i have i am legend & batman begins
both wb
And i have to say they both look very good on my 52 "lcd

My only gripe is...when you open the case theres nothing...at least some blu rays have a insert of the movie..or some artwork....
i dunno..guess when i pay that much i expect at least what the dvd had to offer on the inside....

[vegeta88]

Another little thing is on WB BD I have have the painted logo rather than the in-depth logo. Not a big problem, I just like the in-depth one. And I agree about the movie artwork inside.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Over the last couple of months, Warner titles that have only been released on Blu-ray habe been great because they are getting the proper encodes done on them. Titles like 'V For Vendetta' and 'Batman Begins' are titles that have already been released on HD DVD and thus have been ported over. Although I don't like what they are doing, I can understand why they are doing it. Is it worth the $$$ for them to restart the process from scratch? Certainly not. From a business perspective they would have a hard time breaking even on the title. But, keep in mind too that they are offering these titles at much better prices than their competitors because of the port factor. Both 'V For Vendetta' and 'Batman Begins' were available for $18.95 and/or $19.95 from day one that they were available. Every other studio is asking $27.95 or more per title.

[Maxell]

The newer WB titles look alot better than old. Batman Begins is part of the old as it is the same film put onto hddvd (without the prologue).

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Both 'V For Vendetta' and 'Batman Begins' were available for $18.95 and/or $19.95 from day one that they were available. Every other studio is asking $27.95 or more per title.

Sony, Paramount/DreamWorks, and Universal offer CATALOG titles for the same prices as WB. Fox/MGM is the ONLY studios asking that much for catalog titles (other than the occasional exception).

Originally Posted by Moefiz

Pick up I Am Legend you can get it for under 20, you won't be disapointed with the SQ and PQ.

I've spoken many times about how I felt that transfer was lacking. I also spoke out about "Blade Runner" only to later find out that I was talking with my foot in my mouth, but I still stand by my comments on "I Am Legend". Just another disappointment in PQ.

~Alan

[Bluray_ne1]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Over the last couple of months, Warner titles that have only been released on Blu-ray habe been great because they are getting the proper encodes done on them. Titles like 'V For Vendetta' and 'Batman Begins' are titles that have already been released on HD DVD and thus have been ported over. Although I don't like what they are doing, I can understand why they are doing it. Is it worth the $$$ for them to restart the process from scratch? Certainly not. From a business perspective they would have a hard time breaking even on the title. But, keep in mind too that they are offering these titles at much better prices than their competitors because of the port factor.

Well said. I think that once they get past all the HD-DVD releases things will be as good or better than the new, non-HD-DVD releases. The unfortunate part is we're not getting the best Blu-Ray has to offer from the port overs. And it's unlikely they'll double dip later with new encodes except for particular films. Am I dissapointed in some of these Blu-Rays? Absolutely. Not only with A/V quality but also with content (or the lack thereof).

But I'm trying to keep it all in perspective. After all, it was Warner who pretty much ended the format war for us. Not to mention that, though not perfect, the HD-DVD releases we are getting from Warner are for the most part far superior to the DVD version. I'm not saying to myself, "quit complaining and be happy with what you got". I'm just not going to get up in arms about it.

[NJ_RAMS_FAN]

Originally Posted by vegeta88

Another little thing is on WB BD I have have the painted logo rather than the in-depth logo. Not a big problem, I just like the in-depth one. And I agree about the movie artwork inside.

i replaced those cases..lol.. i can't stand the printed logo..