Screenshot Comparisons 4K

[Geoff D]

Those images reminds me a lot of comparing stuff like Coco and Lego Batman to their respective BDs. It's not just that the UHD is palpably sharper (revealing more aliasing in some cases, 2K source being what it is) but that it reveals more of the texture inherent to the animation, it makes it look so much more tactile and three-dimensional. Exellent work again sir, I really need to watch this again at some point as my last visit was in converted SDR and it just didn't quite work.

[andreasy969]

Stranger Things: Season 2

Two of my favorites for improved detail are #34 and #35 iirc. The UHD sometimes also exhibits what I consider to be source "issues" (look at the glasses on #12 and you'll see what I mean - I only noticed this on the caps of course though). Oh, and it's solely disc #1.

EDIT: Tried screenshotcomparison twice now. Broken again and getting mysql errors now. Sorry.

BD (upscaled) left, UHD-BD (madVR/SDR/200 nits) right

Disclaimer as to why the UHD-BD images may appear to be too dim and please ignore any off-looking colors:

[Show spoiler]Please note that the UHD-BD shots have been converted from HDR to SDR using special techniques, which drastically compresses the dynamic range of the original image (the color bit depth has been compressed as well). The UHD-BD shots are therefore not an accurate representation of the original HDR image - dynamic range, colors (tone and intensity) and contrast should be taken with a big pinch of salt and the main focus should be on comparing details. Typically, the image will appear too dark (which is by design when the caps are done at 200 nits; on its own they should be viewed with monitor brightness set to 200 nits), may lack a certain "pop" and may at times also appear "boosted" when compared to the BD shots. The SDR conversion should still give you a good idea of the actual image of the UHD-BD though and one should also be able to at least catch a glimpse of the increased dynamic range. The BD shots have been upscaled for comparison purposes, but other than that should be accurate. You might also want to check out this post of mine (incl. the further link there) where I tried to show/explain this:
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=589

1.

2.

3.

4. (4 1200 nits)

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

11.

12.

13.

14.

15.

16.

17.

18.

19.

20.

21.

22. (#3 1200 nits)

23.

24.

25.

26.

27. (#3 800 nits)

28.

29.

30.

31. (#3 800 nits)

32. (#3 600 nits)

33. (#3 700 nits)

34.

35.

36.

37.

38.

39.

40.

41.

[UpsetSmiley]

The UHD looks like a very nice upgrade, especially when compared to the BD/UHD of the first season. Thank you andreasy!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

Sicario 2

The title shot (#20) may not be exactly the same frame (but it's my best guess and doesn't matter anyway). The relatively poor quality aerial shot in #6 that was mentioned before is the source imo. Very pronounced different framing in #16. Burnt-in subs only on the BD (example in #13). Lots and lots of HDR. (both discs are Lionsgate UK)

Having now watched the Sony UHD it's rather obvious to me that the aliasing is baked in to this 4K upscale, it's not the source. Yes, that particular grab #6 shimmers like mad so there may be something inherent to that one shot but I see subtler aliasing on fine diagonals all throughout the movie, like at the border of the letterbox bars in the sit-down office scene with Modine and Brolin, they actually break up into weird little jagged edges where the borders lay across the blinds on the windows, it's when Modine walks out from behind his desk. Another example is the railings to the top of the screen in the 'Camp Lemonnier' shot with Brolin walking towards the rendition containers. These last two examples are not in evidence on the 1080p Sony disc so something went awry with the 4K upscale unfortunately. You can even see it in the two credits shots that have been provided above, look at the 'a' in 'SOLDADO', how even the 4K upscaled 1080p disc still has cleaner diagonals than the 4K capture. Yes, I know that the two title cards are different but the same is true of my Sony BD with the 'day of the soldado' title, the diagonals are cleaner so it doesn't appear to be a case of two different title cards having been done better or worse.

Any chance you can cap those two moments I mentioned from the Lionsgate UHD disc Andreas?

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Having now watched the Sony UHD it's rather obvious to me that the aliasing is baked in to this 4K upscale, it's not the source. Yes, that particular grab #6 shimmers like mad so there may be something inherent to that one shot but I see subtler aliasing on fine diagonals all throughout the movie, like at the border of the letterbox bars in the sit-down office scene with Modine and Brolin, they actually break up into weird little jagged edges where the borders lay across the blinds on the windows, it's when Modine walks out from behind his desk. Another example is the railings to the top of the screen in the 'Camp Lemonnier' shot with Brolin walking towards the rendition containers.

Just got slightly confused that you're quoting me reg. aliasing (because I never mentioned any), but just figured out that you're more referring to your own comment. Only thing I did mention (elsewhere) other than the poor #6 is some sharpening seen in #11 (source or not I leave up for debate as always).

Anyway, if you say there's aliasing, I'm sure there is (on the Sony at any rate). But I really didn't notice any (but 1080p + front projection mind you ...). I do remember seeing rather pronounced aliasing during the end credits lately, but I also remember (against habit) not watching the end credits with one title lately (because I had some important business to attend to ), so I really don't know if that (the end credits aliasing) was with Sicario 2 (I do notice some alising during end credits once in a while anyway).

reg. Sony being mastered @1000 nits. As I did point here before, the Lionsgate is not. I don't know which meta data madVR is displaying though (MaxCLL or mastering display), but it did say 8325 nits (madVR , in the current version, gives me only this one static meta data plus live measured current peak and measured average; and my 704 doesn't give me anything). (Maybe Sony and Lionsgate are not the same after all.)

reg. caps: Of course, but as always I'd appretiate the timestamps (as in seconds precision). (also only later this evening at the earliest)

[Geoff D]

Forget the spot measuring, what's the min/max MDL (mastering display level) metadata showing as on the Lionsgate disc?

I quoted your post to follow on from your caps and to mention #6, I didn't say that you said there was aliasing.

Will get timestamp later, but what logos does the Lionsgate have at the front of the movie?

[edit]

I need to check it out in 1080p as I often do that when I get something with aliasing like this, the 1080p downscaling is borked on the OPPO though so I'll have to dig out my Sony and give it a try on that deck.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Forget the spot measuring, what's the min/max MDL (mastering display level) metadata showing as on the Lionsgate disc?

but what logos does the Lionsgate have at the front of the movie?

You must be getting old or sth. I answered both questions here, the first one twice by now.

reg. the nits: madVR states 8325 as a static HDR meta datum (nothing measured), but I don't know which it is (MaxCLL or MDL). My usual Lionsgate disc gives me a 1000 here instead of Sicario 2's 8325 (so I think it's MDL). (Measured I did spot > 3200 somewhere.)

Only Sony intro.

EDIT:

I knew the first scene you mentioned without having to look for it, so I guess you mean this (?):



Well ... I was first looking for aliasing within the actual image (), didn't see any, went back to your comment, OK, he's talking about the border of the letterbox bars, not the shades itself, so let's see ..., yes, it's there. But if (!) that's what you're talking about, I'm afraid I was really expecting something a little "more relevant" this time ().

If that's not the one and/or you'd like to see the other one, timestamps still welcome.

[Geoff D]

Yeah I'm still not understanding, if you can't confirm what the MDL is reading (it's all static medadata in HDR10, that's not what I aksed) then that's fair enough.

That's ^ the scene alright, but where the border meets the blinds it breaks up into nasty jagged bits on the Sony, it looks a HELL of a lot better in your UHD cap. Could it be that the Lionsgate disc was actually handled betterer than the Sony disc?

What about Camp Lemonnier? Near the beginning of the film, after the bombing. The shot starts with a close-up of Brolin's burly legs and then pulls back as he walks into the compound. Just before the shot ends, look at the railings on the upper level over to the left. Would love a cap of that.

[edit] Actually, on closer inspection I can see the aliasing in several of those other caps so I don't think this different to the Sony after all, perhaps the bizarre shit I'm getting on the letterbox borders is an optical illusion or a TV-specific problem. Still wanna try it in 1080p, will do that in a minute I think.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yeah I'm still not understanding, if you can't confirm what the MDL is reading (it's all static medadata in HDR10) then that's fair enough.

Maybe it's my poor Änglisch.

Look at this image: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=454

Where you see the static 8325 (I know it's all static, but you assumed that I was talking about measured stuff ...) with Sicario 2, it says 1000 with other Lionsgate discs, so I assume that's the MDL. (I don't know what else it should be)

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

perhaps the bizarre shit I'm getting on the letterbox borders is an optical illusion

I think that's the case. (seriously and no offense!)

I did spot some mild aliasing elsewhere as well though.

[Geoff D]

No offense taken, I wouldn't have suggested it myself otherwise. And yes, now I understand what you're saying, thanks to you providing a picture which is always useful in explaining to idiots

It's super odd that the mastering display level would be set at 8325, but there it is.

[TheSweetieMan]

Geoff, I got to be honest with you--as a gamer, if there's one thing I'll notice whether it's live action or animation, it's aliasing. I can notice it in certain films, mainly stuff shot on films and scanned at a high resolution, but it's mainly on distance buildings and whatnot--I can't see the aliasing at all on Sicario 2.

As I pointed out in that film's thread, the only issue I had with the disc was the major macroblocking and compression of the opening of chapter 5 (which is screenshot 6). However, I think that's a drone shot.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

No offense taken, I wouldn't have suggested it myself otherwise. And yes, now I understand what you're saying, thanks to you providing a picture which is always useful in explaining to idiots

It's super odd that the mastering display level would be set at 8325, but there it is.

Finally!

I'll try to look into the other one tomorrow. I found the number odd as well (so it might still be sth else), but I'm sure I've seen weird numbers there before (but also said normal 1000). (I usually have the OSD off ...)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

Geoff, I got to be honest with you--as a gamer, if there's one thing I'll notice whether it's live action or animation, it's aliasing. I can notice it in certain films, mainly stuff shot on films and scanned at a high resolution, but it's mainly on distance buildings and whatnot--I can't see the aliasing at all on Sicario 2.

As I pointed out in that film's thread, the only issue I had with the disc was the major macroblocking and compression of the opening of chapter 5 (which is screenshot 6). However, I think that's a drone shot.

No worries man, but because someone else sees it as well (see the S2 thread, and he a gamer too!!) then I know I'm not crazy.

That said, I've got to backtrack again re: the screenshots because when I just said "I can see the aliasing in those too" I was looking at the BD shots and not the UHD ones, I keep thinking that andreas is putting the UHD first and BD second. It's all so confusing

So, for those keeping score - and I know andreas is - then it looks like the Lionsgate disc might well be better than the Sony one after all, and the possible reason why I'm not seeing the hellacious zig-zagging in the letterbox borders in his screencap is because it's just not there in that version. Christ, I'd love it if someone could do some caps of the Sony disc!

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

What about Camp Lemonnier? Near the beginning of the film, after the bombing. The shot starts with a close-up of Brolin's burly legs and then pulls back as he walks into the compound. Just before the shot ends, look at the railings on the upper level over to the left. Would love a cap of that.

Here you go. Took 2 where it looked "worst" to me. Downscaled in motion it's basically as noticable to me as it is on the caps when viewed downscaled as well. Yes, there is some, but by no means horrible. YMMV of course. (And as I stated yesterday, now that I am aware of it/am looking for it, I can spot some mild aliasing sometimes, but really nothing offensive imo.)

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I keep thinking that andreas is putting the UHD first and BD second. It's all so confusing

Habits? (I switched since Azkaban. )

[Geoff D]

Yes, habit.

As regards Sicario, turns out I WAS seeing all that weird shit that I mentioned on the Sony disc....but it's my TV and not the disc itself. More on that in the Sicario 2 thread.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

As regards Sicario, turns out I WAS seeing all that weird shit that I mentioned on the Sony disc....but it's my TV and not the disc itself. More on that in the Sicario 2 thread.

WHAAAAAAT?!

The Fault In Our Geoffy-Vision?

[Geoff D]

Yes and no.

[UpsetSmiley]

I've seen praise for the UHD of Cloverfield but how does 10 Cloverfield Lane on UHD shape up against the BD? Any of you beautiful people compared this one?

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by UpsetSmiley

I've seen praise for the UHD of Cloverfield but how does 10 Cloverfield Lane on UHD shape up against the BD? Any of you beautiful people compared this one?

You shall find your answer here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1142 (and would've found it yourself by using the search function)

(And yes, next to being an objective smart ass, I'm quite good looking too. )


@Geoff
Glad you could figure it out.