Prometheus Review Thread (Spoilers)

[Jennifer Lawrence Fan]

I got back from just seeing it today. There was about 10-15 for a 1:20 pm showing. I mean it was all right, but maybe I expected more from it. I would say I give it between 2.5 or 3 out of 5.

[InCali]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

David isn't capable of true emotion. His facial expressions make him appear to be, but he isn't. To truly understand David's responses you need to read this: http://www.weylandindustries.com/david


An excerpt: Heart and Soul

David 8 can record, process, understand and express many complex emotions, but he will never know true human feelings such as love, grief and compassion.

So, jealousy is out of the question.

I would just remind people that this is a movie. What is, is what the script says it is. What will be in the (assumed) sequel is yet to be seen. Jealousy is "not" out of the question in a movie. We'll see what happens....

[Dead By Shaun]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

David isn't capable of true emotion. His facial expressions make him appear to be, but he isn't. To truly understand David's responses you need to read this: http://www.weylandindustries.com/david


An excerpt: Heart and Soul

David 8 can record, process, understand and express many complex emotions, but he will never know true human feelings such as love, grief and compassion.

So, jealousy is out of the question.

I don't believe that's out of the question. There's also an excerpt on http://www.weylandindustries.com that mentions malfunctions in the David 7 units. Who's to say there aren't any in the David 8 line as well? Furthermore,

[Show spoiler]Lindelof himself said that now that Weyland is dead, David's fundamental programming has been scrapped and that David has developed a "curious crush" on Dr. Shaw. For the moment, I'm keeping an open mind...and also need to watch the movie a few more times!

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

David isn't capable of true emotion. His facial expressions make him appear to be, but he isn't. To truly understand David's responses you need to read this: http://www.weylandindustries.com/david


An excerpt: Heart and Soul

David 8 can record, process, understand and express many complex emotions, but he will never know true human feelings such as love, grief and compassion.

So, jealousy is out of the question.

I bet the Engineers thought their creations would be completely controllable as well when they created the humans. That is, until the human race developed an independent streak and started to do what they want wanted to do, against their creators will. If Jesus really was an Engineer and the Engineers are seeking to punish the human race for getting "out of control," David developing a sense of self and operating for his own self serving interests definitely plays within the theme of the film. Sometimes our creations have unintended and unforeseen consequences. It's the classic Frankenstein metaphor, which ironically, was inspired by the original Prometheus story in Greek mythology. Besides, since Lindelof explicitly states that David had a pseudo crush or infatuation on Dr. Shaw, it does make his selection of Dr. Holloway as his guinea pig all the more curious.

[InCali]

Originally Posted by greg_achen

I bet the Engineers thought their creations would be completely controllable as well when they created the humans. That is, until the human race developed an independent streak and started to do what they want wanted to do, against their creators will. If Jesus really was an Engineer and the Engineers are seeking to punish the human race for getting "out of control," David developing a sense of sense and operating for his own self serving interests definitely plays within the theme of the film. Sometimes our creations have unintended and unforeseen consequences. It's the classic Frankenstein metaphor, which ironically, was inspired by the original Prometheus story in Greek mythology. Besides, since Lindelof explicitly states that David had a pseudo crush or infatuation on Dr. Shaw, it does make his selection of Dr. Holloway as his guinea pig all the more curious.

I like it when people start out with "I think" or "I bet". "David" is an interesting name if there are biblical references because he is thought, by some, to be an ancestor of Jesus through Mary. If the plot behind this movie is REALLY that detailed and intertwined with Christianity and Greek mythology (I'm being delicate here), I'll be interested in seeing how it plays out.

Man, glad David's name wasn't "Michael" (an archangel in the bible thought by some to be Jesus). That would have set off a whole other tangent with this crew .

"Sometimes, a good cigar is just a good cigar" - Sigmund Freud

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by InCali

I would just remind people that this is a movie. What is, is what the script says it is. What will be in the (assumed) sequel is yet to be seen. Jealousy is "not" out of the question in a movie. We'll see what happens....

Originally Posted by Dead By Shaun

I don't believe that's out of the question. There's also an excerpt on http://www.weylandindustries.com that mentions malfunctions in the David 7 units. Who's to say there aren't any in the David 8 line as well? Furthermore,

[Show spoiler]Lindelof himself said that now that Weyland is dead, David's fundamental programming has been scrapped and that David has developed a "curious crush" on Dr. Shaw. For the moment, I'm keeping an open mind...and also need to watch the movie a few more times!

Originally Posted by greg_achen

I bet the Engineers thought their creations would be completely controllable as well when they created the humans. That is, until the human race developed an independent streak and started to do what they want wanted to do, against their creators will. If Jesus really was an Engineer and the Engineers are seeking to punish the human race for getting "out of control," David developing a sense of sense and operating for his own self serving interests definitely plays within the theme of the film. Sometimes our creations have unintended and unforeseen consequences. It's the classic Frankenstein metaphor, which ironically, was inspired by the original Prometheus story in Greek mythology. Besides, since Lindelof explicitly states that David had a pseudo crush or infatuation on Dr. Shaw, it does make his selection of Dr. Holloway as his guinea pig all the more curious.

I understand your points of view, and yes, anything is possible, since it is in the hands of the writers and director. Keep in mind, Lindelof may not be involved in writing the sequel. He has said he thought it would benefit from a fresh voice.

The reason I refer to the Weylandcorp site is because I believe it is canon for the Prometheus Universe. Nothing I have seen in the movie has changed that view. If you have examined the David 8 section, the incredible amount of detail regarding his capabilities and specifications, in the end, reveals that he is simply a machine that can mimic emotion, but not feel it. The removal of

[Show spoiler]Weyland from the equation, has released him from his primary directive of helping his creator achieve immortality or at least prolong his life.

But, David is not 'free' in the strict sense of the word. He requires another directive, and now he has it, from Shaw. It is

[Show spoiler]Take me to the Engineer homeworld and help me discover why they made us and why they now want to destroy us.

Now, if David somehow takes on Bladerunneresque replicant qualities, all bets are off.

I do not believe the Engineers will ultimately be our creators in the Prometheus Universe. The last bit of viral marketing seen at the end of the credits was from Thus Spake Zarathustra: What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end.” That is a key to why they

[Show spoiler]created us and now want to destroy us.

If you can extract the meaning of that, you will probably have a better idea of where the sequel is headed. it is clear to me that the

[Show spoiler]"Deacon" or human xenomorph, as Lindelof refers to it, will play a part in the sequel. We last saw it striding purposefully out of the airlock heading...where?

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Yes, the David 8 model is not supposed to feel human emotion. However, the malfunctioning android is the staple of this franchise. My take on the David character and Fassbender's performance is that he does, in fact, have a certain degree of emotion. He is repeatedly insulted by Holloway throughout the film. If you watch his responses to these insults, he is clearly affected by them - yet he hides under the guise of the "android who feels nothing". David not only knows he's better than his human counterparts - he holds a certain disdain for them ("Not too close, I hope".)

By his own admission, Fassbender studied the replicants of 'Blade Runner' in preparation for this role - who were, indeed, very emotional beings.

[Dead By Shaun]

To add just another line of thought to this, the David 8 robot we see in the film is Weyland's personal model, the son he never had. It's possible that this specific model may have had some additional tweaks outside of the regular production line...or not, just thinking outside the box

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Aragorn84

Yes, the David 8 model is not supposed to feel human emotion. However, the malfunctioning android is the staple of this franchise. My take on the David character and Fassbender's performance is that he does, in fact, have a certain degree of emotion. He is repeatedly insulted by Holloway throughout the film. If you watch his responses to these insults, he is clearly affected by them - yet he hides under the guise of the "android who feels nothing". David not only knows he's better than his human counterparts - he holds a certain disdain for them ("Not too close, I hope".)

By his own admission, Fassbender studied the replicants of 'Blade Runner' in preparation for this role - who were, indeed, very emotional beings.

So, you don't agree that the information regarding David's capability is canon?
That he can recognize the characteristics of various human emotions and create facial expressions that appear to respond to those emotions, but not truly experience them? If that's the case, you are welcome to your opinion, but I don't share it.

I believe that you can only clearly understand David's actions in Prometheus if you accept that he has no self determination. His agenda is

[Show spoiler]Weyland's agenda until it isn't. Regarding the selection of Holloway for his 'try harder' experiment. Weyland wanted Shaw around because she was a 'true believer'. Who else would have acquiesced to do 'anything' to find the answers they sought? The rest were declared mercenaries including the so called scientists. They were there for the money, right? Holloway, was clearly the only logical choice, in my opinion.

No emotion required.

Please point out the malfunctioning android in Alien or Aliens, not that it is relevant to David, since very little is canon in those movies per Scott. Ash was certainly responding to his orders until he was bashed into spare parts. Bishop was a 'good guy' throughout Aliens even after he was eviscerated by the Queen. I don't include Bladerunner replicants in the equation at all. Do you?

[Dead By Shaun]

Regarding malfunctioning David 7 models...

WEYLAND CYBERNETICS ANNOUNCES IMMEDIATE RECALL OF DAVID 7 MODELS

San Francisco, CA - June 14, 2071

The Weyland Cybernetics division has announced a limited recall of all David 7 units with serial numbers between 5000 and 6000, types A through C, in response to consumer claims that these models experienced failure while attempting to interpret certain human interactions and commands.

"It appears that a handful of Weyland Cybernetics Repair Stations, mostly on Earth and Luna, have received some reports, less than a few dozen reports, that certain David 7 units...have malfunctioned while in service," explains Kathryn Stuart-Rose, a Weyland Cybernetics spokesperson.

Weyland Industries will be collecting the David models at no cost to the consumer and plan to conduct studies to determine the cause of the malfunction. David 7 owners may choose to wait until the conclusion of the study to receive a next-generation model at discount prices, or receive a David 7 replacement at no extra charge.

"It appears that one of the emotion mapping and facial recognition sensors is the root of the problem," Stuart-Rose further explains, "The David 7's apparently misread human emotions such as surprise and interest, interpreting them instead as anger or frustration."

It is not currently known whether the recall will extend to other models. David 7 owners are advised to carefully observe non-recall models and note any strange or unusual behavior. If any David 7 unit appears to become even mildly uncooperative, aggressive or unresponsive, they should deliver him to a certified Weyland Cybernetics repair station immediately.

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

So, you don't agree that the information regarding David's capability is canon?
That he can recognize the characteristics of various human emotions and create facial expressions that appear to respond to those emotions, but not truly experience them? If that's the case, you are welcome to your opinion, but I don't share it.

I fully agree that David's capability as described on the Weyland Corp website is canon. I fully agree that is how they designed David and I fully agree that they believed he wasn't capable of expressing "true" emotion. However, there is ample evidence in the film, as others have pointed out, that indicates that David wasn't quite as robotic as he appears and led people to believe. In fact, the whole opening sequence where he watches people dream, plays a game shooting basketball hoops, and watches movies demonstrates a sentient being entertaining himself. Surely he wasn't programmed to idolize Peter O' Toole and if he was, surely he wasn't programmed to dye his hair blonde in an effort to mimic O' Toole's character. If David is capable of idolizing someone, surely he is capable of other "unintended" emotions like jealousy and anger. As others have stated, on more than one occasion characters insult David or refer to him in a derogative manner and his facial expressions and subsequent responses indicate a being who is at some level offended or even a bit resentful. When David expresses that all children possess a desire to see their parents die, was that solely an observation about humans, or did he reveal a desire deep within himself? If it was a desire within himself, surely he wasn't programmed to have any independent desires outside of why he was built. Scott and Lindelof also explicitly draw a parallel between the Engineers creating humans and humans creating robots. Some unknown species created the Engineers, the Engineers in turn created humans, and the humans in turn created robots. I agree with you in that I don't believe Weyland Corp intended to create a robot who could feel genuine emotions and have personal desires, nor do I believe that David was malfunctioning if he does have those abilities. In fact, I believe the opposite. I think Weyland Corp might have built David too well and before they even knew what they had they "patented it, they packaged it, and they slapped it on a plastic lunchbox, and now they're selling it." Dr. Frankenstein didn't intend to create a monster but that's what he ended up with nor did the Titans intend to create gods that would ultimately bring about their destruction.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Dead By Shaun

To add just another line of thought to this, the David 8 robot we see in the film is Weyland's personal model, the son he never had. It's possible that this specific model may have had some additional tweaks outside of the regular production line...or not, just thinking outside the box

Good point. If any David 8 unit is going to be operating at peak efficiency, it would be Weyland's personal unit. We can't assume it is operating outside of design parameters though. As for the sequel, the fact that David has been

[Show spoiler]ripped assunder will obviously affect his capabilities

, but nothing indicated any change in his processing capacity which is significantly greater than a humans. His interaction with

[Show spoiler]Weyland in his dying moments

and subsequent interaction with Shaw seemed not to change. In contrast, Ash was a little twitchy after his decapitation and required external power in order to interact with the crew of the Nostromo.

[Monkey]

Wait so the theory is Jesus was a midget Engineer now?

[Dead By Shaun]

One other thing that I do find curious and perhaps also plays into David's "human crush" on Shaw is that,

[Show spoiler]upon discovering Shaw's alien pregnancy, David proceeds to remove her crucifix while explaining to her that it may be contaminated, when clearly it isn't. This would indicate that it's some kind of keepsake, a memento to remind him of Shaw as it appeared at that particular moment that she wasn't going to make it. He then keeps the crucifix in his utility pouch until the end of the movie when Shaw asks for it back. I find it odd that a robot would have a sentimental attachment to an object such as this if it weren't in some way taking on unexpected human traits.

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Originally Posted by Michael Bay Fan

I got back from just seeing it today. There was about 10-15 for a 1:20 pm showing. I mean it was all right, but maybe I expected more from it. I would say I give it between 2.5 or 3 out of 5.

Not enough explosions or hyper-fast edits?

[Barbossa]

Originally Posted by BouCoupDinkyDau

Not enough explosions or hyper-fast edits?

What a silly remark.

Here's a good, analytical review:

http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=3211

[Enigmatical]

so can someone clarify something for me....

[Show spoiler]the very first scene we see an engineer take some black goo and commit suicide? or use himself as a test subject? what exactly happens there?

[Jack Burton]

Originally Posted by Enigmatical

so can someone clarify something for me....

[Show spoiler]the very first scene we see an engineer take some black goo and commit suicide? or use himself as a test subject? what exactly happens there?

I think that's

[Show spoiler]to show how life on earth started

.

[jwerk]

Originally Posted by Jack Burton

I think that's to show

[Show spoiler]how life on earth started.

That's exactly it. Plus, I fixed your spoiler tag

[KarmaNL]

Originally Posted by Barbossa

What a silly remark.

Here's a good, analytical review:

http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=3211

I must agree with this review