The Criterion Collection

[StarDestroyer52]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

So I was thinking about this yesterday. Do you think it's possible Criterion held off on starting 4K until they got their bigger box sets out the way? Stuff like Fellini, Wong Kar-wai, and perhaps even the Bergman set? Put another way, if Criterion started doing 4K releases in say 2019, would the reception to an all Blu-ray release for the Fellini set have been the same? Even when it was announced people were disappointed it wasn't at least partially in 4K, so imagine the reaction if it came out after they actually started releasing some? Perhaps it's too much of a conspiracy theory, but it wouldn't surprise me if they decided to get these big collections out of the way first, before finally transitioning to the format.

I also think it's telling that an individual release of La Strada was released in November, at the onset of their 4K lineup. Without that Fellini set existing, it's very possible Criterion would have done a 4K release instead. Maybe I'm reading into it too much, but time will tell if they do the same for any eventual release of Nights of Cabiria (which has a 4K release internationally), and any other major title from these box sets.

Seems to me, if Criterion releases a hypothetical Akira Kurosawa set and its only BluRay only, a lot of people would be angry. Though of course, even it was to include 4K copies, I still assume a lot of people would be angry for having to pay extra for 4K. I mean, I assume, Criterion, could still release individual Kurosawa films on 4K, but I imagine a lot of people would be mad to have to buy a boxset and then get individual titles on 4K separately. That's assuming Criterion even is releasing a Kurosawa set, and it's not just a wishlist item that many of us want here.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by StarDestroyer52

Criterion, could still release individual Kurosawa films on 4K, but I imagine a lot of people would be mad to have to buy a boxset and then get individual titles on 4K separately

Yeah, I honestly feel that was their rationale for having La Strada be BD only.

[regeyer]

There are so many possibilities and we don't know all of the inner thinking that goes on at Criterion. I think they initially held off on 4K for the same reason that they held off on Blu-Ray - they wanted to see if there was staying power. They've gone 4K now, but let's not forget that a good chunk of their sales are still DVDs. And Blu-Ray is either first or second. 4K is and will likely continue to be a distance third.

[ShellOilJunior]

My biggest question: What's going on with Toho?

[StarDestroyer52]

Originally Posted by regeyer

There are so many possibilities and we don't know all of the inner thinking that goes on at Criterion. I think they initially held off on 4K for the same reason that they held off on Blu-Ray - they wanted to see if there was staying power. They've gone 4K now, but let's not forget that a good chunk of their sales are still DVDs. And Blu-Ray is either first or second. 4K is and will likely continue to be a distance third.

Many of the boxsets from Criterion have not seen a subsequent DVD release. So it looks like Criterion is dropping DVDs from boxsets due to keeping the costs down. Though, there is, like you said, still a lot we don't know about Criterion's inner thinking.

[StarDestroyer52]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

My biggest question: What's going on with Toho?

They are notoriously difficult to deal with, which is my best guess why we haven't seen the remainder of Toho's Kurosawa films like Stray Dog, Drunken Angel, and The Bad Sleep Well get upgraded.

[gudemameshiba]

Originally Posted by StarDestroyer52

Many of the boxsets from Criterion have not seen a subsequent DVD release. So it looks like Criterion is dropping DVDs from boxsets due to keeping the costs down. Though, there is, like you said, still a lot we don't know about Criterion's inner thinking.

Not just the box sets: for over half of the 16 most recently announced spine numbers, they didn't license DVD rights at all, and their solo Blu-ray releases of Taste of Cherry, Mona Lisa, and La Strada—all distributed by Janus Films—did not receive corresponding DVD re-releases. (Not to mention the couple dozen Blu-ray releases, mostly from the last four years, that are sourced from newer/better restorations than the existing DVD masters.)

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I also think it's telling that an individual release of La Strada was released in November, at the onset of their 4K lineup. Without that Fellini set existing, it's very possible Criterion would have done a 4K release instead. Maybe I'm reading into it too much, but time will tell if they do the same for any eventual release of Nights of Cabiria (which has a 4K release internationally), and any other major title from these box sets.

There is no 4K UHD of "Nights of Cabiria".

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Yeah, I honestly feel that was their rationale for having La Strada be BD only.

I feel like if Criterion were going to release Fellini on UHD they would probably start with something like "8 1/2". I believe Criterion, along with most other US labels, are just going to be selective when it comes to non-English UHDs. It was smart to make "Le Cercle Rouge" their first non-English UHD just because it's been OOP in the US for a decade.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Dailyan

There is no 4K UHD of "Nights of Cabiria".

Oh you're right, my mistake.

Originally Posted by Dailyan

I feel like if Criterion were going to release Fellini on UHD they would probably start with something like "8 1/2". I believe Criterion, along with most other US labels, are just going to be selective when it comes to non-English UHDs. It was smart to make "Le Cercle Rouge" their first non-English UHD just because it's been OOP in the US for a decade.

I agree that Criterion will be selective with their 4K releases. Is 8 1/2 a more popular/better known film than La Strada in America? I've always had the impression that La Strada was the the better known title of the two, at least during the DVD era, and prior. I think I've even seen it mentioned in some mainstram movies, or shows, but I never really hear anyone reference 8 1/2.

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by StarDestroyer52

Seems to me, if Criterion releases a hypothetical Akira Kurosawa set and its only BluRay only, a lot of people would be angry. Though of course, even it was to include 4K copies, I still assume a lot of people would be angry for having to pay extra for 4K. I mean, I assume, Criterion, could still release individual Kurosawa films on 4K, but I imagine a lot of people would be mad to have to buy a boxset and then get individual titles on 4K separately. That's assuming Criterion even is releasing a Kurosawa set, and it's not just a wishlist item that many of us want here.

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Yeah, I honestly feel that was their rationale for having La Strada be BD only.

I mean, they had no problem putting barebones versions of Tokyo Olympiad and Visions of Eight in the 100 Years of Olympic Films set, while also having extras-laden individual releases of same. And one other, from memory.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by koberulz

I mean, they had no problem putting barebones versions of Tokyo Olympiad and Visions of Eight in the 100 Years of Olympic Films set, while also having extras-laden individual releases of same. And one other, from memory.

That's a much more niche set, with fewer people to upset, and not exactly on the same level as putting out notable Fellini films in 4K.

And relying on my memory, I know you are actually one of those that were upset by the Olympics set, and felt the set was "incomplete" because the standalone releases were better.

Originally Posted by koberulz

Am I the only one a bit disappointed by the box set? With the stacked individual releases of this and Visions of Eight out there, it just feels incomplete. I've not yet actually watched any of it, and I'm sure the films are great, but I also can't really justify buying those standalones just for the extras. It'd have been nice to get a couple of bits and pieces with most of the films on the set, frankly; there's not even an audio commentary.

[koberulz]

Right, that was pretty much my point.

If anything that's worse than releasing in 4K later because a) you're upgrading the movie itself not just rebuying for a handful of extras and b) most people don't buy 4K anyway.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by koberulz

Right, that was pretty much my point.

If anything that's worse than releasing in 4K later because a) you're upgrading the movie itself not just rebuying for a handful of extras and b) most people don't buy 4K anyway.

I think either way, people will still feel angry that they're having to buy the film twice to get something they probably could and should have gotten with their original purchase. I think timing is a factor. If enough years go by, and Criterion decides to upgrade some of the films in any of the box sets to 4K, then people will be less angered than had they done it so soon after that first release. The timing aspect is something people are voicing complaints about now with some of Arrow's UHD releases.

[gbm82]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I think either way, people will still feel angry that they're having to buy the film twice to get something they probably could and should have gotten with their original purchase. I think timing is a factor. If enough years go by, and Criterion decides to upgrade some of the films in any of the box sets to 4K, then people will be less angered than had they done it so soon after that first release. The timing aspect is something people are voicing complaints about now with some of Arrow's UHD releases.

All of those have been out for years now though... people are going to complain no matter what

[Vigojean]

Somebody better announce Amadeus soon

And how is releasing Taking Off still an issue? Because of the music?

[hoytereden]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I think either way, people will still feel angry that they're having to buy the film twice to get something they probably could and should have gotten with their original purchase. I think timing is a factor. If enough years go by, and Criterion decides to upgrade some of the films in any of the box sets to 4K, then people will be less angered than had they done it so soon after that first release. The timing aspect is something people are voicing complaints about now with some of Arrow's UHD releases.

I’ve really enjoyed the America Lost and Found boxset but I’d be on if they’d release a UHD of The Last Picture Show.

[Scholer]

Originally Posted by hoytereden

I’ve really enjoyed the America Lost and Found boxset but I’d be on if they’d release a UHD of The Last Picture Show.

It’s a film in need of a 4K remaster, the older transfer is rather rough around the edges by current standards. Also, it would be great to see the theatrical cut which I believe has never been released on home video?

[hoytereden]

Originally Posted by Scholer

It’s a film in need of a 4K remaster, the older transfer is rather rough around the edges by current standards. Also, it would be great to see the theatrical cut which I believe has never been released on home video?

Yes, after seeing it in the theater back in ‘71, the extended version is all I’ve seen on home video and TCM broadcasts.

[SleazyForWeasley]

In a since deleted thread someone mentioned they saw "via a leak" that Todd Solondz's Happiness is entering the Criterion Collection in 2022. I was going to ask for a source before the thread was deleted but didn't get the chance. Does anyone know where the user might have seen this? Has anyone else seen that somewhere?

[jshaide]

Originally Posted by SleazyForWeasley

In a since deleted thread someone mentioned they saw "via a leak" that Todd Solondz's Happiness is entering the Criterion Collection in 2022. I was going to ask for a source before the thread was deleted but didn't get the chance. Does anyone know where the user might have seen this? Has anyone else seen that somewhere?

That was me. And that's a long story from like last November or so when this thread was hopping for like a week. But it should be taken with a TOTAL grain of salt until some months pass and we see whether this user making "leaks" was for real or full of it. I wouldn't even consider it as a rumor.