The Criterion Collection

[WillieMLF]

Originally Posted by TV2693

Since you and the other two posters present evidence to the contrary, I'm inclining towards thinking that the article I read was crap.

Regardless of which type of discs account for total sales, the thing to take away from all of the sources is that disc sales in general are plummeting.

Times are changing.

If the article is something like, LINDSEY LOHAN'S UHD'S FAR OUTSHINE THE UHD'S OF THESE HOT ARTISTS!!!!!!!! (you'll be shocked by #4), it's some garbage clickbait unfortunately.

[Member-682067]

Originally Posted by WillieMLF

If the article is something like, LINDSEY LOHAN'S UHD'S FAR OUTSHINE THE UHD'S OF THESE HOT ARTISTS!!!!!!!! (you'll be shocked by #4), it's some garbage clickbait unfortunately.

Indeed! I'm shocked I didn't find an erectile dysfunction ad somewhere on the page.

[Member-682067]

Originally Posted by Ender14

They are but it hasn't slowed down physical releases, especially from boutique labels. There will be an audience for physical media for the foreseeable future, even if it is niche. If not, Criterion, Via Vision, Arrow, Second Sight, Shout and all the other boutique labels wouldn't be releasing the volume of discs they are. And selling out limited editions.

The problem with that is there are many movies that will be lost to oblivion if we just rely on the boutique labels to release them. Those labels will likely not gain rights from the studios for a lot of older or obscure titles for a myriad of reasons.

Kino Lorber runs into this problem all the time. Common issue is that the rights are too pricey.

I'm being a glass half empty person right now, but I've been wrong before and can be wrong again.

[randian]

Originally Posted by TV2693

Common issue is that the rights are too pricey.

Which tells you the rights owners are delusional. An asset that nobody is willing to pay you for is not an asset at all.

[mande2013]

I can certainly envision a scenario in which Criterion try to secure UHD rights to The Tree of Life but that Disney simply asks for too much money to make it possible...

Speaking of which, how many non-franchise and/or non-kids movies have Disney released themselves on UHD?

[strumdogg]

Originally Posted by TV2693

Walking into any two specific stores wouldn't necessarily be indicative of the overall financial performance of any particular product(not even discs or type of discs.). At a brand or industry level.

Apple is the leader in the technology market, but 'walking into Walmart or Target" and seeing what they have for sale in the electronics department wouldn't be indicative of that.

OK. Redirecting the argument to Apple is a clear strawman argument, and I don't accept it. We were talking about UHD releases/sales of movies vs. BD & DVD, right?!

Hey, you can argue about online sales, but it'll still fall flat. Stores put the shit on the shelves that they think the "average consumer" will purchase...maybe on a whim. We're a different crowd here, and you're spewing misinformation. It kinda sucks.

[ShellOilJunior]

Double Indemnity appears to be selling very well.

Opening week sales: 4,751
Total sales: 29,565

https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Do...ab=video-sales

[yoloswegmaster420]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

Double Indemnity appears to be selling very well.

Opening week sales: 4,751
Total sales: 29,565

https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Do...ab=video-sales

I'm pretty sure the total sales is just including the prior releases since it's listed as being released for 425 weeks.

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by trobrianders

All because of the difficulties in finding reliable replication facilities in this hugely technical age? Frankly unbelievable.

The other 10 North American plants all closed down. This “hugely technical” age is why, since technology is moving away from physical media.

Cue people saying ‘notifies labels are putting out more than ever!’ They aren’t, but even so, 90%+ of people stream. It’s a niche market now, not the norm, so plants aren’t re-opening.

[ShellOilJunior]

Originally Posted by yoloswegmaster420

I'm pretty sure the total sales is just including the prior releases since it's listed as being released for 425 weeks.

Yes, it could be. The site isn't specific. The nearly 5,000 sold estimate week 1 sounds reasonable at least.

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by TV2693

The problem with that is there are many movies that will be lost to oblivion if we just rely on the boutique labels to release them. Those labels will likely not gain rights from the studios for a lot of older or obscure titles for a myriad of reasons.

While this is true, there’s reason to believe that at least some studios see this as a market they not only want to stay in, but intensify. Paramount is a really good example of this, snatching back rights and getting really nice special editions out there. WB brought back George Feltenstein, which was seen by some as a renewed commitment to restoration and physical media.

I think a lot of the decline of physical media has to do with releases that have nothing to do with films - TV shows, special programming, anything that’s just less of a hassle to find with streaming. Obvs movies are deep;y impacted too, but DVD was an *enormous* market and it encompassed a lot more than just motion pictures. I suspect that’s being eviscerated harder than anything else.

[prior]

Hello there, Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread.

Oops, wrong thread.

[Member-682067]

Originally Posted by DimitriL

While this is true, there’s reason to believe that at least some studios see this as a market they not only want to stay in, but intensify. Paramount is a really good example of this, snatching back rights and getting really nice special editions out there. WB brought back George Feltenstein, which was seen by some as a renewed commitment to restoration and physical media.

I think a lot of the decline of physical media has to do with releases that have nothing to do with films - TV shows, special programming, anything that’s just less of a hassle to find with streaming. Obvs movies are deep;y impacted too, but DVD was an *enormous* market and it encompassed a lot more than just motion pictures. I suspect that’s being eviscerated harder than anything else.

You made good points. I think this is just one of those wait and see what happens situations.

Loosely related, and not the same as physical media, but there seemed to be a lot of doubt over the viability of theaters during and after COVID and what do you know not even a year later after Omicron hit we witnessed a movie(Top Gun 2) become one of the highest grossing movies of all time.

[OceanBlue]

I don't believe this has been released by Criterion's UK branch, so am adding a title to the list of Criterion US-only releases which I want to get, The Phantom Carriage. I've long wanted to, and been meaning to get this silent film. Have a short, sensible list of Criterion US-only releases I want to get (in addition to the aforementioned title, of the ones I can think of, there is also The Asphalt Jungle and Until the End of the World).

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by TV2693

The problem with that is there are many movies that will be lost to oblivion if we just rely on the boutique labels to release them. Those labels will likely not gain rights from the studios for a lot of older or obscure titles for a myriad of reasons.

A lot more movies would be lost to oblivion if we relied on the studios to release them. It's the boutique labels who are doing their best to release the obscure and deep catalogue stuff.

[strumdogg]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

It's the boutique labels who are licensing the films and doing their best to release the obscure and deep catalogue stuff.

Licensing fees for content varies, from public domain to "John Hughes soundtrack" level.

Night of the Living Dead is PD, which is why 30+ "studios" have released it on BD/DVD, and why Criterion can double-dip for the 4K (not needed).

[Member-682067]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

A lot more movies would be lost to oblivion if we relied on the studios to release them. It's the boutique labels who are doing their best to release the obscure and deep catalogue stuff.

I agree. My point was if the downward trend in overall sales continues(which seems likely)1 these same companies eventually may not have the funds to leverage towards other companies and distributors to buy a license for a lot of special interest or even maybe broader appeal titles.

What would be the price or legal hurdles to make a deal with Warner for the uncut version of Ken Russell's "The Devil's"? If nobody else could make a deal, would they bother to release it on blu disc under their own Warner archive label?

On the Kino Lorber thread, it seems like someone who works high up in their company posts about a lot of the day to day business details that occur in their company. They post about getting priced out, running into fickle companies, and complex licensing problems all the time.

Having followed that thread for a while, it's painful to recollect how many terrific titles they have lost out on. And with plummeting sales, the reward for the price and effort they are going to put into going after a plethora of titles eventually might not be there. It's going to be 4k's of the classics and and broader appeal stuff.

[gbm82]

Tonight's bleak double feature!

Campion's debut is an utterly marvelous feature, it's pessimistic, unrelenting and simply off-kilter. Yet a heart lies underneath it all and a (bitter)sweet note lingers after everything is done. The humor is very dry and the framing is intentionally uncomfortable.

Visconti is another director who I've been familiar with yet had seen very little from (I think only one or two sections in omnibus films). I need to see more. It's a meandering drama that's filled with depravity, along with wonderful lighting and movement. The artificiality, with everything heavily composed, seems to add to the dramatic impact. Scenes of sex and violence may be toned down compared to a film with pure exploitation motives but make no mistake, this is a violent film that touches on some heavy themes. Some of those themes are unexpected. Apparently this was among Fassbinder's favorites, I wouldn't be surprised to find Milligan loved it as well.

[Rayjg]

Originally Posted by gbm82

Tonight's bleak double feature!

Campion's debut is an utterly marvelous feature, it's pessimistic, unrelenting and simply off-kilter. Yet a heart lies underneath it all and a (bitter)sweet note lingers after everything is done. The humor is very dry and the framing is intentionally uncomfortable.

Visconti is another director who I've been familiar with yet had seen very little from (I think only one or two sections in omnibus films). I need to see more. It's a meandering drama that's filled with depravity, along with wonderful lighting and movement. The artificiality, with everything heavily composed, seems to add to the dramatic impact. Scenes of sex and violence may be toned down compared to a film with pure exploitation motives but make no mistake, this is a violent film that touches on some heavy themes. Some of those themes are unexpected. Apparently this was among Fassbinder's favorites, I wouldn't be surprised to find Milligan loved it as well.

You'd a been better off clubbing baby seals.

[CRASHLANDING]

Originally Posted by TV2693

I agree. My point was if the downward trend in overall sales continues(which seems likely)1 these same companies eventually may not have the funds to leverage towards other companies and distributors to buy a license for a lot of special interest or even maybe broader appeal titles.

What would be the price or legal hurdles to make a deal with Warner for the uncut version of Ken Russell's "The Devil's"? If nobody else could make a deal, would they bother to release it on blu disc under their own Warner archive label?

On the Kino Lorber thread, it seems like someone who works high up in their company posts about a lot of the day to day business details that occur in their company. They post about getting priced out, running into fickle companies, and complex licensing problems all the time.

Having followed that thread for a while, it's painful to recollect how many terrific titles they have lost out on. And with plummeting sales, the reward for the price and effort they are going to put into going after a plethora of titles eventually might not be there. It's going to be 4k's of the classics and and broader appeal stuff.

I think you're reading too much into those discussions with the KLI. Sure, there are situations where deals can't be reached, but those are more the exception than the rule - the boutique labels (especially Kino) are still putting out tons of content.

I also think it's overstating a bit to say sales of physical media are "plummeting" - that decline has been happening gradually for years now, it's nothing new at this point. But not every decline ends with extinction. Many expect the industry to settle into something like vinyl, aimed more at collectors and die-hard fans than the general public. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

To get this back on track, I think the recent offerings from Criterion support the argument that there's still plenty of great content available to be released.