The Criterion Collection

[HenryHill]

Originally Posted by dkelly26666

I have the BFI DVD and a boot DVD of "The Devils"

I have the WB blu and DVD of "Altered States".

I need a BD of "The Devils", and from Criterion would be extra special.

Preferably with the "Rape of Christ" scene restored and including Mark Kermode's "Hell on Earth" documentary.

[Taylor3978]

Originally Posted by dkelly26666

i need a bd of "the devils", and from criterion would be extra special.

[StarDestroyer52]

Originally Posted by Taylor3978

I would bet my life that release is a bootleg.

[Fabs]

Originally Posted by CandymanHappyman

Lightning (1952): "This was another title we had licensed but sadly fell down due to materials checks."

Absolutely gutted we were robbed of Naruse on Blu-ray. I guess it’s just not meant to be when it comes to getting releases of his movies here in the West

[CandymanHappyman]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

Again, appreciate your long and thoughtful response as it is informative, even though I don't like a lot of what I'm reading. The lack of new master is where a major issue arises. Criterion does get a TON of flack for every little details, and I could see complaints if the master isn't perfect. Still, there are a lot of good masters out there. Hunter in the Dark looks excellent in HD and so do a few others. There is still a decent selection of titles with older masters that still look good and what a lot of labels are still releasing.

Still, I don't disagree with the market changing right now. Everyone wants a new 4K or at least 2K scan done. I really think what was mentioned previously about the Eclipse line making a return, but this time to the HD format could be something that Criterion could try and I think depending on the director or titles, it could be a success.

Either way, the main thing I want to see from Criterion is more Japanese titles being released and again while it is complicated in some cases, there are still a decent assortment of titles they could release, unless they really are going to focus solely on 4K restorations.

The last Eclipse set was released more than 5 years ago. While I agree that it would be a great way to bring a lot of smaller films to HD with little fuss, I believe that there are two major issues holding this back.

First of all is the licensing cost. Depending on how Criterion's deals are structured, they may have to pay a certain dollar amount for every disc sold. If these fees are high, the P&L doesn't work for an Eclipse set, as you would have to include on average 3 movies in a set for about $5 a movie. (As we all know, no one buys Criterion discs at full price and a significant chunk of the sale revenue stays with the retailer. With the average sale price of 20% off to the semi-annual 50% off sales, all they will ultimately get is around $5 per title, maybe less. This $5 would need to cover the license fee, authoring and replication cost, paper sleeve, cover and case, shipping, returns, damaged and lost discs, etc.)

Please remember that the cost of authoring, replication, substrate, including paper, plastic cases, corrugate, printing, freight.... they have all gone up significantly in the last 5 years.

The second issue is sales volume. Things like the Eclipse sets were very popular with libraries and schools. If you combine the well over 100,000 libraries and the 2,500+ 4 year colleges in the US, you can see that if only 10% of these institutions bought a single copy of an Eclipse set, or any disc for that matter, you would instantly have well over 10K copies sold.

But almost all schools and libraries have now moved to streaming, using services like Kanopy. Many still have old physical discs to loan out, but they're no longer actively adding to their collections.

If Criterion knew that they could easily sell 10K copies of an Eclipse set at a wholesale price of $15 per set, they could justify releasing these films. $150,000 should easely cover these costs, including higher than average licensing fees.

But if they know that they will barely sell a thousand of these sets at the same $15 per set, then the potential $15,000 revenue no longer makes financial sense.

[Taylor3978]

On Criterion Channel now, about half of their most popular films are from a Parker Posey season. Perhaps there's a market for a PP boxset. I've particularly enjoyed Party Girl (which I'm sure I've seen on TCM Underground) and Suburbia. House of Yes has perhaps her best performance in a film that doesn't deserve it. I'm surprised she never made a film with Wes Anderson.

[koberulz]

The most popular films on the channel are almost always from one of the newly-dropped collections; it doesn't mean there's been a spontaneous demand for her work.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by dkelly26666

I know it doesn't mean a thing, to be on the Criterion Channel streaming, towards getting a Criterion physical release.

But I still love seeing those Ken Russell films on there for next month.

They actually have "The Devils" and "Altered States" on there. I know, doesn't mean a Criterion release is coming.

But somehow it makes me hope again.....

The Devils has been on the Criterion Channel before, I remember watching it on there about 4 years ago.

At that time, it was the edited version in SD quality, so no better than watching in on VHS.

[NeoNical]

I'm a bit worried about The Devils on the Criterion Channel because yes, it did appear on the Criterion Channel back in October 2019 but it was abruptly pulled out of the channel after a while. It is well known that Warner Bros. is not confident in having this one re-released and they have backed away from their plans several times before (Like how it was available for pre-order back in 2010-2011 but disappeared overnight).

It's good to keep hopes up for those curious but at the same time, I would advise subscribers to try to watch this one soon in the likely chance that Warner Bros. decides to remove it once again. Who knows if the streaming version is the censored, SD version.

October 2019:

P.S.:

[Show spoiler]Fun Fact: The nuns from this film are in Space Jam: A New Legacy

[Ikari]

Three more discs arrived from Amazon with misaligned covers... what's going on? I don't remember this issue with Criterion discs...

[fdm]

Originally Posted by NeoNical

I'm a bit worried about The Devils on the Criterion Channel because yes, it did appear on the Criterion Channel back in October 2019 but it was abruptly pulled out of the channel after a while.

Many films are available to stream on the channel for a limited time, The Devils is no exception. Watch it while you can. Criterion has an updated category each month of what films will be going away at the end of the month.

[fdm]

Originally Posted by Ikari

Three more discs arrived from Amazon with misaligned covers... what's going on? I don't remember this issue with Criterion discs...

It's been going on for years.

[CRASHLANDING]

Originally Posted by NeoNical

I'm a bit worried about The Devils on the Criterion Channel because yes, it did appear on the Criterion Channel back in October 2019 but it was abruptly pulled out of the channel after a while.

Originally Posted by fdm

Many films are available to stream on the channel for a limited time, The Devils is no exception. Watch it while you can. Criterion has an updated category each month of what films will be going away at the end of the month.

This is correct. The Channel has a core library comprised of mainly Janus films, and then rotates others through as part of their monthly curated collections. Most of the films in those featured collections stay a couple of months after they first appear and then are gone. Often they'll return again later as part of other collections, but you should definitely watch things while they're available - especially anything that isn't part of the regular Janus library.

[concolt]

Originally Posted by Ikari

Three more discs arrived from Amazon with misaligned covers... what's going on? I don't remember this issue with Criterion discs...

This has been an issue for years. Just align the covers, no big deal.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by NeoNical

I'm a bit worried about The Devils on the Criterion Channel because yes, it did appear on the Criterion Channel back in October 2019 but it was abruptly pulled out of the channel after a while. It is well known that Warner Bros. is not confident in having this one re-released and they have backed away from their plans several times before (Like how it was available for pre-order back in 2010-2011 but disappeared overnight).

It's good to keep hopes up for those curious but at the same time, I would advise subscribers to try to watch this one soon in the likely chance that Warner Bros. decides to remove it once again. Who knows if the streaming version is the censored, SD version.

It wasn't "abruptly pulled" by Warner Bros, as is the case with many streaming services, films on the Criterion Channel are cycled through and will pop up for a few months before being taken down and replaced with other films.

I literally said in the post right above yours that it was the censored version.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by CandymanHappyman

The last Eclipse set was released more than 5 years ago. While I agree that it would be a great way to bring a lot of smaller films to HD with little fuss, I believe that there are two major issues holding this back.

First of all is the licensing cost. Depending on how Criterion's deals are structured, they may have to pay a certain dollar amount for every disc sold. If these fees are high, the P&L doesn't work for an Eclipse set, as you would have to include on average 3 movies in a set for about $5 a movie. (As we all know, no one buys Criterion discs at full price and a significant chunk of the sale revenue stays with the retailer. With the average sale price of 20% off to the semi-annual 50% off sales, all they will ultimately get is around $5 per title, maybe less. This $5 would need to cover the license fee, authoring and replication cost, paper sleeve, cover and case, shipping, returns, damaged and lost discs, etc.)

Please remember that the cost of authoring, replication, substrate, including paper, plastic cases, corrugate, printing, freight.... they have all gone up significantly in the last 5 years.

The second issue is sales volume. Things like the Eclipse sets were very popular with libraries and schools. If you combine the well over 100,000 libraries and the 2,500+ 4 year colleges in the US, you can see that if only 10% of these institutions bought a single copy of an Eclipse set, or any disc for that matter, you would instantly have well over 10K copies sold.

But almost all schools and libraries have now moved to streaming, using services like Kanopy. Many still have old physical discs to loan out, but they're no longer actively adding to their collections.

If Criterion knew that they could easily sell 10K copies of an Eclipse set at a wholesale price of $15 per set, they could justify releasing these films. $150,000 should easely cover these costs, including higher than average licensing fees.

But if they know that they will barely sell a thousand of these sets at the same $15 per set, then the potential $15,000 revenue no longer makes financial sense.

Once again, thank you for sharing your thoughts. You have probably offered the most meaningful perspective on the lack of Japanese films from Criterion.

I don't remain very hopeful for many Japanese films on Blu-ray, but still hoping they at least releases the ones they acquired recently that have brand new 4K masters like Demon Pond or ones they have had, but have gotten brand new 4K masters like Profound Desires of the Gods.

I hope they do lose some of their licenses, mainly ones from Shochiku which have very good older masters like Demon, Hunter in the Dark, etc. Another option is to do the High Sierra route and include a bonus feature like Colorado Territory on a newer restoration.

I know it's not feasible, but with Criterion have nearly 300 Japanese films, I'm just thinking of options. Even a boxset or two would be nice, for example a Juzo Itami one in which they have rights to all his films.

[javy]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

I know it's not feasible, but with Criterion have nearly 300 Japanese films, I'm just thinking of options. Even a boxset or two would be nice, for example a Juzo Itami one in which they have rights to all his films.

Just messing with you a bit Duke 😄🙃☺️

[Show spoiler]Screenshot_20231221_180606_Chrome.jpg

[Ikari]

Originally Posted by fdm

It's been going on for years.

Originally Posted by concolt

This has been an issue for years. Just align the covers, no big deal.

Maybe I just never bought as many Criterions? But I don't mean just a bit off, that I don't mind, but they're sticking out so much that when the case is closed, they get torn a bit at the edges. Is that "normal"?

I know I'm picky, but at $25 on sale plus shipping and 22% VAT, I'd expect a bit better?

[fdm]

Originally Posted by Ikari

Maybe I just never bought as many Criterions? But I don't mean just a bit off, that I don't mind, but they're sticking out so much that when the case is closed, they get torn a bit at the edges. Is that "normal"?

I know I'm picky, but at $25 on sale plus shipping and 22% VAT, I'd expect a bit better?

It's not normal for the damage to be that bad or worse, but it happens a lot with Criterion releases, based on what I receive during their flash sales, and when shopping them at b&n stores. For the former, I usually return most of them (and wait for subsequent b&n sales or another flash sale); for the latter I just look for better copies (several of their stores in my part of the world).

But I don't think it's "no big deal" either.

[jw007]

When I was still buying Criterions 4-5 years ago, I already saw the sleeves sticking out and posted a lot about this. This has been an ongoing issue for half a decade if not more now. I'd still say the scratches on the discs that are still popping up are more worrisome than the partially ripped sleeves though.