The Criterion Collection

[dkelly26666]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

KUNDUN is about the displacement of the Dalai Lama after the Chinese takeover of Tibet and the Chinese are not portrayed in any kind of favorable light, of course. But yes, it's doubtful it was ever meant for distribution in China anyway, but my point was that now the studios have rules for any movie that goes into production whether it's potentially planned for exhibition in China or not.

Yeah, it likely wasn't planned to be released in China, but Disney did have theme parks there, and other interests, and were even in the process of opening a new attraction there in 1997.

The word in the US press was that China was so outraged about "Kundun", that they outright threatened, in no uncertain terms, that 'Disney business interests in China will suffer terribly if this film is released.'

Disney did release it, but barely. It is probably the most under-released Scorsese film ever. It had very little marketing or promotion, opened only in NYC in one location on Christmas day, 1997, and by early 1998, only wound up playing in a few dozen theaters around the country, again, unpromoted, and it fizzled right out. They didn't release the VHS until around 8 months later, and it too just came and went. The Disney VHS and DVD went OOP in the early 2000s, and the film was off the official market for many years. Finally, KL released it just a few years ago on BD (now, also OOP, I believe).

Many people have been critical of Disney for caving like that.

[CRASHLANDING]

Originally Posted by bergman864

I love that Criterion seems to be the only label giving streaming titles a physical release but, they announced American Factory and Atlantics among their first wave of Netflix licensed titles and we're still waiting on them.

It doesn't seem like those titles should take as long as they have to come to disc but here we are. Criterion sitting on titles is a problem that exists well beyond the output of a single country.

I didn't see anywhere that Criterion actually announced that, I think it was only Netflix stating those films would be joining the Criterion Collection. So it's possible that something happened later after to change those plans, since The Irishman and Marriage Story did ultimately get released in 2020 as originally announced.

[dvining]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

KUNDUN is about the displacement of the Dalai Lama after the Chinese takeover of Tibet and the Chinese are not portrayed in any kind of favorable light, of course. But yes, it's doubtful it was ever meant for distribution in China anyway, but my point was that now the studios have rules for any movie that goes into production whether it's potentially planned for exhibition in China or not.

China considers Tibet (and other places like Taiwan) as part of China, and they outright ban maps that show otherwise.

A movie about how the Chinese invasion of Tibet being bad was never going to sit well with Chinese authorities. Some Disney exec (can't remember which, specifically) apologized for making the film at all a few years later.

[bergman864]

Originally Posted by CRASHLANDING

I didn't see anywhere that Criterion actually announced that, I think it was only Netflix stating those films would be joining the Criterion Collection. So it's possible that something happened later after to change those plans, since The Irishman and Marriage Story did ultimately get released in 2020 as originally announced.

It's entirely possible that something has changed with the licensing of those films. It's nearly impossible to know the status of films Criterion has been rumored to have under license. Even for streaming films that begin with the Janus or Criterion logo.

Given that, it's entirely possible that there are extenuating circumstances as to why so many of their licensed films aren't already available on home video. And it's likely more than just a recent film's relevancy.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by dvining

Some Disney exec (can't remember which, specifically) apologized for making the film at all a few years later.

Is that true? SMH!

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by dkelly26666

Yeah, it likely wasn't planned to be released in China, but Disney did have theme parks there, and other interests, and were even in the process of opening a new attraction there in 1997.

The word in the US press was that China was so outraged about "Kundun", that they outright threatened, in no uncertain terms, that 'Disney business interests in China will suffer terribly if this film is released.'

Disney did release it, but barely. It is probably the most under-released Scorsese film ever. It had very little marketing or promotion, opened only in NYC in one location on Christmas day, 1997, and by early 1998, only wound up playing in a few dozen theaters around the country, again, unpromoted, and it fizzled right out. They didn't release the VHS until around 8 months later, and it too just came and went. The Disney VHS and DVD went OOP in the early 2000s, and the film was off the official market for many years. Finally, KL released it just a few years ago on BD (now, also OOP, I believe).

Many people have been critical of Disney for caving like that.

You're absolutely right about the sparse release. I remember it barely playing in Los Angeles and I had to catch up with it at the one second run theater still showing it about two weeks later, trekking all the way from Hollywood to Santa Monica on the bus to catch it, which was not fun. But man was it worth the effort. I was blown away by the movie and still am, a beautifully exquisite picture about a very tough subject.

Since Walt's demise, Disney has been run by spineless, greedy a-holes who honor the Disney name the same way Scrooge McDuck honors his first nickel, still in the vault.

[dvining]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

Is that true? SMH!

Yeah, it was Eisner:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundun#Release

"Disney apologized in 1998 for releasing the film and began to "undo the damage", eventually leading to a deal to open Shanghai Disneyland by 2016.[13] Former Disney CEO Michael Eisner has apologized for offending Chinese sensitivities, calling the film "a stupid mistake." He went on to say, "The bad news is that the film was made; the good news is that nobody watched it. Here I want to apologize, and in the future we should prevent this sort of thing, which insults our friends, from happening."[14]"

[StarDestroyer52]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

Is that true? SMH!

Yes, Michael Eisner, called it a mistake and insulting.

[dvining]

Originally Posted by StarDestroyer52

Yes, Michael Eisner, called it a mistake and insulting.

[Show spoiler]

I was gonna use the Google Books source, too, but the snippet Google gave me was too abbreviated to have any context.

[javy]

What a coward.

[WillieMLF]

Silly ways to amuse people....

[mande2013]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

Now you have me wanting to watch EWS again, which I honestly have never said or thought. Both are time capsules of a NYC that’s no longer there. By 1990, a lot of the locations in After Hours were gone or remodeled, and nowadays most if not all locations in the film are gone. And EWS is probably the last NYC film I’ve seen that was made before 9/11. Even though the whole city wasn’t destroyed that day, the city did change. I have the scene of Tom Cruise walking down the street in my head right now, and you feel like NYC is this amazing, magical place. (Perhaps it’s that I’ve never been there, despite living so close.) A mere few years later, the entire mood and environment changed.

And yes, After Hours is a great film. I’ve always felt there was two slates of Scorsese films. One was the ones we all know and love: Mean Streets, Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, Goodfellas, and The Departed. Then there’s the other ones that are still amazing films, but have slipped under the radar over the years: Who’s That Knocking At My Door, Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore, The King Of Comedy, After Hours, The Last Temptation Of Christ, and Silence. They’re all great, it’s just that one set of films is way more known than the other. For every 100 people you can find who’ve seen Goodfellas, you’re lucky to find one who’s seen After Hours, or Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore, or Silence.

I was about to say only second unit photography was done in NYC for Eyes Wide Shut. The rest was done on a backlot in England. Anyhow, I just thought I’d say as a Queens native that no mainstream film I can think of captures “NYC outer borough-ness” better than Goodfellas. James Gray and the Safdie Brothers have both made admirable attempts at coming close though. Gray’s relentless Joseph Campbell-ism is a bit tiresome I’ll admit.

P.S. I went to the same high school as James Gray and Hero of a Thousand Faces was summer reading between junior and senior year.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by javy

What a coward.

"Excuse us, Adolph, sir, but we apologize on behalf of Mr. Lubitsch and Mr. Brooks for making TO BE OR NOT TO BE and THE PRODUCERS. We're sure their intent was not to offend or ridicule the fuhrer in anyway and that it was a mistake which they humbly regret. Of course, no matter as no one bothered to see either film anyway so we are safe in saying your distinguished record and legacy will remain untarnished.

Sincerely,

Every Hollywood Studio
Accounting Division

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by mande2013

I was about to say only second unit photography was done in NYC for Eyes Wide Shut. The rest was done on a backlot in England. Anyhow, I just thought I’d say as a Queens native that no mainstream film I can think of captures “NYC outer borough-ness” better than Goodfellas. James Gray and the Safdie Brothers have both made admirable attempts at coming close though. Gray’s relentless Joseph Campbell-ism is a bit tiresome I’ll admit.

In full disclosure, I have never been in New York City, not even for a visit, so my opinion has little to no substance, but I've always thought of the two best representations of the city in film come from the glamourous days of Manhattan in the 50's with IT SHOULD HAPPEN TO YOU and then 20 years later in the dark, dingy New York with THE TAKING OF PELHAM 1 2 3. I once programmed a film festival of double features with 50's New York City films and then 70's because of the great deterioration that happened there in two decades. It drew a lot of audiences and was very successful.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by StarDestroyer52

Yes, Michael Eisner, called it a mistake and insulting.

Shameful. What a travesty of a human being.

[hoytereden]

Originally Posted by dvining

Yeah, it was Eisner:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundun#Release

"Disney apologized in 1998 for releasing the film and began to "undo the damage", eventually leading to a deal to open Shanghai Disneyland by 2016.[13] Former Disney CEO Michael Eisner has apologized for offending Chinese sensitivities, calling the film "a stupid mistake." He went on to say, "The bad news is that the film was made; the good news is that nobody watched it. Here I want to apologize, and in the future we should prevent this sort of thing, which insults our friends, from happening."[14]"

Kowtowing in its most shameful sense.

[Afriendofours]

Originally Posted by dvining

China considers Tibet (and other places like Taiwan) as part of China, and they outright ban maps that show otherwise.

A movie about how the Chinese invasion of Tibet being bad was never going to sit well with Chinese authorities. Some Disney exec (can't remember which, specifically) apologized for making the film at all a few years later.

They banned Richard Gere after he expressed support for Tibet at the 1993 Oscars. And then again in 1997 they issued a ban on cooperation with the Hollywood studios that made Seven Years in Tibet (Columbia TriStar), Kundun (Disney) and Red Corner (MGM/United Artists) because they said the films "viciously attack China and hurt Chinese people's feelings."

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by hoytereden

Kowtowing in its most shameful sense.

The NBA is just as spineless. They would rather support brutal fascist dictatorships than risk "tainting" their global brand.

[Professor Echo]

Let me beat Shane to the punch this time, the post that everyone is waiting to see again:

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

The Criterion Collection

[jedidarrick]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

Let me beat Shane to the punch this time, the post that everyone is waiting to see again:

Says "The Criterion Collection" like how Joel and the Bots say "Manos: The Hands of Fate" in the titular MST3K episode.