Sony UBP-X800 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by chip75

From what I've read over the years, Sony are the last company to plonk in a conversion for 50hz/60hz material with their US players, it's not how they roll. The UK players don't need to convert, they just output 50hz/60hz or 24hz as standard.

I wouldn't expect any Sony players to convert out of the box.

I think some Panasonic BD players had/have the option. Back in DVDs heyday, I had a cheap player that had a conversion option on the remote. The best thing to do is go through the manuals and see what options are there. I sympathize as most manuals on-line are garbage or completely generic for 12 different players.

The person you spoke to is probably correct, like their multi-voltage options most of the things away from the norm are mods and not standard. Although it would be neat if they did label which players could handle different voltages, as most of us would just buy a locked machine to add to our standard player. Having two players isn't a huge deal breaker.

Sadly my 2016 Panasonic player will not play PAL/50Hz. And I still need region B ability anyways.

As you said, the manuals are always garbage, and tell you nothing. And of course calling and asking a rep is as productive as asking a magic 8-ball your question. It's just as likely to be correct as asking a rep.

From what I understand, the X800 is multi-voltage out of the box retail, so the power isn't the issue. You just need a simple plug adapter form Amazon. Somebody confirmed in another thread that his LG from the UK is also multi-voltage out-of-the-box.

220 doesn't seem to have some of the newer players listed on the manufacturer websites - many of their models are discontinued from the manufacturer, some dating back to 2015 or earlier. If I"m going to buy a new player, I'd rather it not be 3 years old already.

Sorry for all the region discussion. It was originally intended to apply to the x800 but I guess that's not going to work out for me.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yeah, if it's region B Blu playback that's the overriding factor then you might well be better of with just a BD player for that purpose rather than killing that UHD bird with the same stone.

I'm thinking more and more that's the way I need to go. Sadly as I said UK Amazon doesn't seem to sell any LG 3D players currently, it's all 3rd party sellers that won't ship. So back to 220electronics.

And I only have 2 available HDMI ports in my setup. That's another issue. I can't have 3 players. I already have a good 3D region A player that I just bought last year for $180. I need a region B player and a UHD too. But I can't have 3 players. So the X800 was a nice solution if it worked.

[DIY_HD]

I've had my UBP-X800 since it was first released and have had no problems. I performed one firmware update over the Internet without issue. However, I have all Sony equipment, TV, AVR, and player.
As for DV vs. HDR, while DV may be technically superior, I don't think that most viewers would notice a significant difference. I'm sure Dolby's marketing staff would disagree. It's your money, your choice. I'm not only satisfied with the X800, I'm quite impressed with its performance. One thing I did notice, it needs to be plugged into the BD HDMI port, in spite of the fact it is not HDCP 2.2 compliant. Apparently, this function is performed by the player and the AVR doesn't have to do it.
Upscaling of DVD and 1080p content is also very good. If I had to make the choice again, I would still buy it, and I paid $326 for it when it first came on sale at BB.

[mar3o]

Out of curiosity, does the x800 have any issues outputting video to an LG UHD LED set (2016 model). I believe I read earlier in the thread that the player always outputs 12-bit (am I mistaken)? Some people have said that causes issues with their TVs. My set offers what it claims is 10-bit color but that's with a type of dithering. From what I've been told by somebody who looked into it deeper, it's technically an 8-bit panel. Would the panel have any issues with a high-quality player like this?

[nospam]

Originally Posted by mar3o

Out of curiosity, does the x800 have any issues outputting video to an LG UHD LED set (2016 model). I believe I read earlier in the thread that the player always outputs 12-bit (am I mistaken)? Some people have said that causes issues with their TVs. My set offers what it claims is 10-bit color but that's with a type of dithering. From what I've been told by somebody who looked into it deeper, it's technically an 8-bit panel. Would the panel have any issues with a high-quality player like this?

No. All LG 4k UHD sets will accept 12-bit signals. Even if the panels are truly 8-bit or 10-bit.

[maverick22]

And....back up to $249.99 at Best Buy.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by mar3o

Out of curiosity, does the x800 have any issues outputting video to an LG UHD LED set (2016 model). I believe I read earlier in the thread that the player always outputs 12-bit (am I mistaken)? Some people have said that causes issues with their TVs. My set offers what it claims is 10-bit color but that's with a type of dithering. From what I've been told by somebody who looked into it deeper, it's technically an 8-bit panel. Would the panel have any issues with a high-quality player like this?

The processing on some TVs (naming no names) has been known to choke on the 12-bit 4:4:4 output from these players, yes. It's not really about the panel but about how the internal video handling copes with dithering down the signal - some 4K TVs still apparently operate at 8-bit processing, never mind 10, which doesn't give you enough overhead to be able to wrangle a 12-bit 4:4:4 4K24 signal (which is a fair wodge of data to crunch in real time).

Panasonic eventually added a 10-bit option on their players for this exact reason, that some folks were getting nasty banding and whatnot with the forced 12-bit output, but even though the Sony also apparently has a fixed 12-bit output there's been very little complaint on that front so far.

[eddievanhalen]

I've had no problem with Sony's 12 bit output on my mid price Samsung 49" 4K HDR set from the current EU range, even if I set video output to 4:4:4 with 4K HDR material. I have it by default set to Auto or 4:2:2 which is what my Sansung set prefers, but not problem handling and displaying properly a 12 bit video signal, if the Sony ALWAYS outputs a 12 video signal even if Deep Color is off.
What I wonder is why Sony decided to make its player with a 12 bit video out if it doesn't and it won't play Dolby Vision, it seems like a weird decision.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by mar3o

Out of curiosity, does the x800 have any issues outputting video to an LG UHD LED set (2016 model). I believe I read earlier in the thread that the player always outputs 12-bit (am I mistaken)? Some people have said that causes issues with their TVs. My set offers what it claims is 10-bit color but that's with a type of dithering. From what I've been told by somebody who looked into it deeper, it's technically an 8-bit panel. Would the panel have any issues with a high-quality player like this?

For what it's worth when I had the Samsung 6300, a 10 bit panel but WITHOUT wide color, I didn't see any color glitches or banding issues with the X800. Now, in HDR mode it will look washed out and such because it's not an HDR Premium panel, but there's no video errors if you get my meaning.

I feel the need to add that the X800's SDR conversion was virtually unusable in my opinion, as every setting black crushed the hell out of everything.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by eddievanhalen

I've had no problem with Sony's 12 bit output on my mid price Samsung 49" 4K HDR set from the current EU range, even if I set video output to 4:4:4 with 4K HDR material. I have it by default set to Auto or 4:2:2 which is what my Sansung set prefers, but not problem handling and displaying properly a 12 bit video signal, if the Sony ALWAYS outputs a 12 video signal even if Deep Color is off.
What I wonder is why Sony decided to make its player with a 12 bit video out if it doesn't and it won't play Dolby Vision, it seems like a weird decision.

Regular Blu-ray players have been oversampling to 12-bit (even 14-bit in the case of some Sony's) under the aegis of "Deep Colour" for many years and that was with an 8-bit format! It's just been carried over to UHD players regardless, it doesn't have anything to do with Dolby per se.

And yes, current 2017 ranges shouldn't have any problems but I'm not making this up, as when the Panny first arrived in April/May last year there were lots of posts on AVF about it, threads created, the works, as people's 2015 and 2016 sets struggled with the 12-bit 4:4:4 output. (A simple fix was just changing it to 4:2:2 which is actually slightly more accurate for chroma alignment than 4:4:4 on the Panny anyway, but once people got that 12-bit bee in their bonnet they weren't gonna let it go, hence Panasonic adding a 10-bit mode via firmware update about a year later.)

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by nospam

No. All LG 4k UHD sets will accept 12-bit signals. Even if the panels are truly 8-bit or 10-bit.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The processing on some TVs (naming no names) has been known to choke on the 12-bit 4:4:4 output from these players, yes. It's not really about the panel but about how the internal video handling copes with dithering down the signal - some 4K TVs still apparently operate at 8-bit processing, never mind 10, which doesn't give you enough overhead to be able to wrangle a 12-bit 4:4:4 4K24 signal (which is a fair wodge of data to crunch in real time).

This is why I'm hesitant to buy a 1st-gen player, especially a modded one that I won't be able to return if it doesn't play nice with my particular TV model. Some tell me there will be no issues with any panel, some tell me there could be issues with some panels. I know my TV isn't the best UHD set - it's not certified, it only hits around 550 nits max, and I know it contains an 8-bit panel. I have no idea about the processing, and it does produce a brilliant image considering the very limited local dimming it employs. And it claims a billion colors. But when I hear about some panels choking on 12-bit, I imagine my set could certainly fall into that category. For that reason, I don't feel comfortable buying a region-modded x800. Especially with all the updates these new UHD players get, I think I'd be setting myself up for a world of hurt.

I think the better option is to buy a modded blu-ray player and wait to see what Sony will announce for their 2nd gen UHD player before I make any decisions.

Which leads to another thought I had - UHD discs are region free, so I don't need to worry about region-modding to play those discs anyways, but what happens in the future, if/when smaller labels start putting out their own discs in the UK/Europe that may contain some PAL extras (or even the main feature, like Planet Earth II, which I know was converted to 23.976 but was originally shot in PAL)? Just like I need a modded blu-ray player to convert PAL/50Hz to 60Hz, even if the disc itself is region-free, wouldn't I run into that same issue with UHD down the road? I know right now it's just the major studios releasing content, and I'm guessing no UHD discs contain any 50Hz/PAL content currently, but couldn't this change as more companies put out content?

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Regular Blu-ray players have been oversampling to 12-bit (even 14-bit in the case of some Sony's) under the aegis of "Deep Colour" for many years and that was with an 8-bit format! It's just been carried over to UHD players regardless, it doesn't have anything to do with Dolby per se.

And yes, current 2017 ranges shouldn't have any problems but I'm not making this up, as when the Panny first arrived in April/May last year there were lots of posts on AVF about it, threads created, the works, as people's 2015 and 2016 sets struggled with the 12-bit 4:4:4 output. (A simple fix was just changing it to 4:2:2 which is actually slightly more accurate for chroma alignment than 4:4:4 on the Panny anyway, but once people got that 12-bit bee in their bonnet they weren't gonna let it go, hence Panasonic adding a 10-bit mode via firmware update about a year later.)

Hmm, would I be able to test to see how my TV handles 12-bit by setting my blu-ray player or media player to deep color and see if my TV can handle it? Would that be a reasonable test to see how it would handle the 4:4:4 output from the x800? I know my media player has that option. I think my Panasonic blu-ray player does too but I'd have to check. What would i need to watch for when testing? Would it be obvious the TV can't handle it right away?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by mar3o

Hmm, would I be able to test to see how my TV handles 12-bit by setting my blu-ray player or media player to deep color and see if my TV can handle it? Would that be a reasonable test to see how it would handle the 4:4:4 output from the x800? I know my media player has that option. I think my Panasonic blu-ray player does too but I'd have to check. What would i need to watch for when testing? Would it be obvious the TV can't handle it right away?

The problem isn't solely the bit depth itself but also the resolution it's allied to, TVs have been able to handle 12-bit 4:4:4 1080p for years already. It's the specific combo of 12-bit 4:4:4 2160p that tripped up certain 4K sets, so trying it with your regular Blu-ray player isn't going to prove anything unfortunately.

[StingingVelvet]

If you don't have wide color gamut honestly I don't think you should be bothering at all, unless you're someone who doesn't care at all about accuracy and will just up the color dial indiscriminately. I say this as genuine advice, as I struggled for a good while with a similar spec'd set and eventually realized you can't put a square into a circle. BDs will look better and more accurate.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

If you don't have wide color gamut honestly I don't think you should be bothering at all, unless you're someone who doesn't care at all about accuracy and will just up the color dial indiscriminately. I say this as genuine advice, as I struggled for a good while with a similar spec'd set and eventually realized you can't put a square into a circle. BDs will look better and more accurate.

Well I would assume I do have wide color gamut, but I don't know what counts as wide color gamut at this point. My TV claims it can display over a billion colors.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The problem isn't solely the bit depth itself but also the resolution it's allied to, TVs have been able to handle 12-bit 4:4:4 1080p for years already. It's the specific combo of 12-bit 4:4:4 2160p that tripped up certain 4K sets, so trying it with your regular Blu-ray player isn't going to prove anything unfortunately.

Ah, I see. That makes sense. I forgot about the resolution. Well, my Pansonic blu-ray player can upscale to 2160p, though I send everything out as 1080p and let my TV do the upscaling, so if I set the player to output 2160p and deep color, would this put my panel through it's paces?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by mar3o

Ah, I see. That makes sense. I forgot about the resolution. Well, my Pansonic blu-ray player can upscale to 2160p, though I send everything out as 1080p and let my TV do the upscaling, so if I set the player to output 2160p and deep color, would this put my panel through it's paces?

It's certainly worth trying, yeah. Watch some content with tricky gradations like an animated movie or something you know has gots lot of blue skies or smoky, dimly-lit scenes and try to compare it between settings.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by mar3o

Well I would assume I do have wide color gamut, but I don't know what counts as wide color gamut at this point. My TV claims it can display over a billion colors.

Oh, I thought in a post above you said it's an 8-bit panel. Those can't be wide color, can they? Look your model up on a site like Rtings and see what it says. 500ish peak nits is low but doable probably, but if you don't have wide color I'd seriously stick with BD for now.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Oh, I thought in a post above you said it's an 8-bit panel. Those can't be wide color, can they? Look your model up on a site like Rtings and see what it says. 500ish peak nits is low but doable probably, but if you don't have wide color I'd seriously stick with BD for now.

Even rtings posted conflicting information about my model. I spoke with somebody in PM on AVS that was close to the design department supposedly in some capacity and he told me that despite what LG claims, it is actually an 8-bit panel that uses dithering to achieve the billion colors the model claims.

When I called LG and asked them directly before I bought the set, they told me twice (over chat and phone) than my model reached 1000 nits in HDR and was a true 10-bit panel. It's been proven that the set does not come anywhere close to 1000 nits, and that leaves me to doubt the rest of what LG told me. Even now if you ask them, they will tell you it's 10-bit. There was quite a bit of discussion about the set on AVS and whether it was 8-bit or 10-bit. Based on what I've been told and screenshots from the service menu, I believe it is in fact an 8-bit.

The first thing you see when you visit LG's page for the UH8500 is:

"SUPER UHD is LG’s best 4K LED TV, a Smart TV offering advanced technologies that deliver over a billion rich colors, smoother motion and elevated brightness plus HDR with Dolby Vision."

"LG SUPER UHD TVs can reproduce a wider palette of over a billion rich colors for a more lifelike picture, consistent at a wider viewing angle thanks to IPS 4K Quantum Display technology."

Nowhere on their site do they actually claim in writing it's a true 10-bit panel, but if you call and ask them they say, "yes".

[Geoff D]

8-bit + Hi-FRC (dithering) isn't the worst way in the world to actually broaden the scope of the panel's range, I reckon that plenty of sets which are sold as having "10-bit" panels are actually dithered 8-bit.