Terminator: Dark Fate SPOILER Discussion Thread

[CyberpunkCentral]

John Connor is dead (again). WTF!?

[kylor]

I think James Cameron is the only guy who wants John Connor to die more than Skynet (or some stupid form of it). This will become the Uncle Ben and Martha/Wayne death of the franchise, which sucks.

[xbs2034]

Originally Posted by kylor

I think James Cameron is the only guy who wants John Connor to die more than Skynet (or some stupid form of it). This will become the Uncle Ben and Martha/Wayne death of the franchise, which sucks.

I read the Wikipedia plot summary, and assuming it’s true (I know Wikipedia is fan edited), it’s sounds like Arnold’s Terminator dies yet again.

That kinda sucks, both because it truly is the Wayne family type death (he’s died in every movie except the 5th) and I hear he doesn’t appear until the third act in this. Whereas I feel like a Terminator that completes its mission and then develops remorse is an interesting character arc that could’ve used space to explore.

[UniSol GR77]

The Terminator Timeline before the T2 (second half) and Dark Fate alterations.


1965: Sarah Connor is born in Los Angeles.
May 12-13th, 1984: The events of The Terminator happen. John Connor, the one and only, is conceived by Sarah and Kyle Reese. Reese is killed. The T-800 Model 101 is destroyed, but Cyberdyne Systems retrieves the Neural Net chip and the arm. After the events, Sarah lives off the grid and moves to Mexico. The exact Polaroid picture - which one day John will give to Kyle - is shot.
February 1985: John Connor is born in Mexico. Sarah starts her training as soldier.
1992: Sarah tries to destroy a computer factory. She is arrested and internalized in a psychiatric hospital. John is bought to the Voights.
October 1994: Cyberdyne Systems becomes the main staple in Army’s computerized systems service.
April 1995: The events of the first half of Terminator 2: Judgment Day occurs the exact way as they are depicted on-screen.
Sarah Connor is freed from the Pescadero State Hospital. Sarah, John and the T-800/Uncle Bob escape in Mexico aided and supported by Enrique Salceda and his companion. They wait for the Judgment Day to happen.
The T-1000, unable to retrace them in any possible way, go in a self-“decommissioned” mode and wait somewhere, blending among humans.

In three years, Cyberdyne will become the largest supplier of military computer systems. All stealth bombers are upgraded with Cyberdyne computers, becoming fully unmanned. Afterwards, they fly with a perfect operational record. The Skynet Funding Bill is passed. The system goes online August 4th, 1997. Human decisions are removed from strategic defense. Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. In a panic, they try to pull the plug.


August 29th, 1997: Judgment Day happens as previously told by Kyle Reese and Sarah Connor.
The T-1000, self-decommissioned two years ago, is destroyed by a nuclear blast.
L.A. Police reports (Kyle Reese, the Terminators) go lost in the nuclear fire and the EMP.

Three billion human lives ended on August 29th, 1997. The survivors of the nuclear fire called the war Judgment Day. They lived only to face a new nightmare: the war against the machines.

1996(?): The Failsafe T-800 materializes in the past. He cannot find the Connors. He self-decommission as the T-1000 did.
2000: Kyle Reese is born.
Maybe, around this time, Sarah and John destroys the T-800/Uncle Bob in order to prevent Skynet from retrieve him before its proper time.
2022-26: T-800s are introduced.
2027: Kyle Reese joins John Connor’s Tech-Com squadron. After many months, he is given the Polaroid picture.
2028: Skynet completes the T-1000 project.
July 4th, 2029: Skynet is defeated. The computer sends three Terminators back in time as last ditch effort:

The T-800 in 1984.
The T-1000 in 1994.
The Failsafe T-800 in 1996 (?)

Skynet believes the timeline is malleable/alterable.
As feedback, John Connor sends two warriors back in time:

Kyle Reese and “Uncle Bob” T-800.

Connor already knows the timeline is fixed. The war is over. Humanity recovers...



The actions of "Terminator 2" - SECOND HALF are the result of an anomaly in the continuum. The Circular Loop goes broken, we don't know "why". The fixed timeline becomes a malleable/alterable one.

[UniSol GR77]

Originally Posted by UniSol GR77

The Terminator Timeline before the T2 (second half) and Dark Fate alterations.


1965: Sarah Connor is born in Los Angeles.
May 12-13th, 1984: The events of The Terminator happen. John Connor, the one and only, is conceived by Sarah and Kyle Reese. Reese is killed. The T-800 Model 101 is destroyed, but Cyberdyne Systems retrieves the Neural Net chip and the arm. After the events, Sarah lives off the grid and moves to Mexico. The exact Polaroid picture - which one day John will give to Kyle - is shot.
February 1985: John Connor is born in Mexico. Sarah starts her training as soldier.
1992: Sarah tries to destroy a computer factory. She is arrested and internalized in a psychiatric hospital. John is bought to the Voights.
October 1994: Cyberdyne Systems becomes the main staple in Army’s computerized systems service.
April 1995: The events of the first half of Terminator 2: Judgment Day occurs the exact way as they are depicted on-screen.
Sarah Connor is freed from the Pescadero State Hospital. Sarah, John and the T-800/Uncle Bob escape in Mexico aided and supported by Enrique Salceda and his companion. They wait for the Judgment Day to happen.
The T-1000, unable to retrace them in any possible way, go in a self-“decommissioned” mode and wait somewhere, blending among humans.

In three years, Cyberdyne will become the largest supplier of military computer systems. All stealth bombers are upgraded with Cyberdyne computers, becoming fully unmanned. Afterwards, they fly with a perfect operational record. The Skynet Funding Bill is passed. The system goes online August 4th, 1997. Human decisions are removed from strategic defense. Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. In a panic, they try to pull the plug.


August 29th, 1997: Judgment Day happens as previously told by Kyle Reese and Sarah Connor.
The T-1000, self-decommissioned two years ago, is destroyed by a nuclear blast.
L.A. Police reports (Kyle Reese, the Terminators) go lost in the nuclear fire and the EMP.

Three billion human lives ended on August 29th, 1997. The survivors of the nuclear fire called the war Judgment Day. They lived only to face a new nightmare: the war against the machines.

1996(?): The Failsafe T-800 materializes in the past. He cannot find the Connors. He self-decommission as the T-1000 did.
2000: Kyle Reese is born.
Maybe, around this time, Sarah and John destroys the T-800/Uncle Bob in order to prevent Skynet from retrieve him before its proper time.
2022-26: T-800s are introduced.
2027: Kyle Reese joins John Connor’s Tech-Com squadron. After many months, he is given the Polaroid picture.
2028: Skynet completes the T-1000 project.
July 4th, 2029: Skynet is defeated. The computer sends three Terminators back in time as last ditch effort:

The T-800 in 1984.
The T-1000 in 1994.
The Failsafe T-800 in 1996 (?)

Skynet believes the timeline is malleable/alterable.
As feedback, John Connor sends two warriors back in time:

Kyle Reese and “Uncle Bob” T-800.

Connor already knows the timeline is fixed. The war is over. Humanity recovers...



The actions of "Terminator 2" - SECOND HALF are the result of an anomaly in the continuum. The Circular Loop goes broken, we don't know "why". The fixed timeline becomes a malleable/alterable one.

Read.

[UniSol GR77]

James Cameron:

Basically, what I did in Terminator 2 is say that everything is meant to be a certain way. At least to that point in time where they're sending somebody back from that future. But can you grab that line of history like it's a rope stretched between two points, and pull it out of the way? If you can pull it just a little bit before it rebounds, and cut it exactly at that moment, then you can change it and go in a different direction. If you do that you get a future that no longer exists at all, except in the memories of the people that are here now.

[kylor]

Originally Posted by xbs2034

I read the Wikipedia plot summary, and assuming it’s true (I know Wikipedia is fan edited), it’s sounds like Arnold’s Terminator dies yet again.

That kinda sucks, both because it truly is the Wayne family type death (he’s died in every movie except the 5th) and I hear he doesn’t appear until the third act in this. Whereas I feel like a Terminator that completes its mission and then develops remorse is an interesting character arc that could’ve used space to explore.

It's true. The terminator in this movie does die. He makes himself a sacrifice in order to take out the Rev-9. He is also the same terminator that killed John Connor, so the death is deserved anyway, even if he changed his mind and tried to help.

That irks me a little bit. Mostly because Terminators cannot self-terminate (hence the whole ending in T2). Yet the terminator in Dark Fate decides to self-terminate sacrificially in order to take out the Rev-9. It undoes so many things T1 & T2 set up, and it makes sure to tease you and rub it in your face all the way through the movie as well (callback T2 scene where the Rev-9 crashes into a shed, the scene where Carl goes to wear the famous black glasses like in T2, but doesn't do it just to piss off fans of T2). Absolute shite.

[UniSol GR77]

That irks me a little bit. Mostly because Terminators cannot self-terminate (hence the whole ending in T2). Yet the terminator in Dark Fate decides to self-terminate sacrificially in order to take out the Rev-9.

He evolved beyond the programming.
IMHO, Carl is just a great character and a truly new take on Terminator.

[kylor]

Originally Posted by UniSol GR77

He evolved beyond the programming.
IMHO, Carl is just a great character and a truly new take on Terminator.

I don't buy that. If he had evolved so much he would have had SOME feelings towards his adopted family.

[NARMAK]

The most stupid part of Dark Fate is that:

John Connor is killed only to be replaced by Dani Ramos
Skynet is replaced by Legion

When you're basically killing off existing characters that are far more interesting in build up and replacing them identically with BS set up, that's where Dark Fate went wrong.

There's a dozen other ways they could've evolved the story AND please, for the love of god, can SOMEBODY please explain to me WHY there's more and more Terminators being sent back and who's sending them back if Skynet is all but dead in a future timeline? It makes no damn sense how or WHY Skynet also sent back another Terminator T800 in Carl without the Resistance knowing. In all previous instances they did know and sent back a protector.

I feel like it begs the question then, IF John Connor didn't live in the future, HOW did he send back Kyle Reese? Now the movies got a huge gaping plot hole even bigger than before.

[UniSol GR77]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

There's a dozen other ways they could've evolved the story AND please, for the love of god, can SOMEBODY please explain to me WHY there's more and more Terminators being sent back and who's sending them back if Skynet is all but dead in a future timeline? .

Read my timeline.
Skynet sent THREE TERMINATORS back in time, at the same time, all at once:

T-800 in 1984
T-1000 in 1995
T-800 in 1996 or 1997

That's it.

Then, the ORIGINAL fixed timeline is "broken" by a space-time continuum anomaly, and the SECOND HALF of T2 occurs. The events of the second half of T2 wipes out the future of Skynet.

[kylor]

Originally Posted by UniSol GR77

Read my timeline.
Skynet sent THREE TERMINATORS back in time, at the same time, all at once:

T-800 in 1984
T-1000 in 1995
T-800 in 1996 or 1997

That's it.

Then, the ORIGINAL fixed timeline is "broken" by a space-time continuum anomaly, and the SECOND HALF of T2 occurs. The events of the second half of T2 wipes out the future of Skynet.

Carl was a T-101 Cyberdyne Systems model.

[UniSol GR77]

Originally Posted by kylor

Carl was a T-101 Cyberdyne Systems model.

Yes. T-800. Coming from Skynet. Exactly.

[UniSol GR77]

I feel like it begs the question then, IF John Connor didn't live in the future, HOW did he send back Kyle Reese? Now the movies got a huge gaping plot hole even bigger than before.

Kyle Reese is the "remnant" of a previous future. He will always exist in 1984. Time travel in alterable timelines work this way.

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by UniSol GR77

Read my timeline.
Skynet sent THREE TERMINATORS back in time, at the same time, all at once:

T-800 in 1984
T-1000 in 1995
T-800 in 1996 or 1997

That's it.

Then, the ORIGINAL fixed timeline is "broken" by a space-time continuum anomaly, and the SECOND HALF of T2 occurs. The events of the second half of T2 wipes out the future of Skynet.

You only have such a timeline IF you include Dark Fate AND it still does not explain how The Resistance isn't able to send a 3rd protector AND who the hell is sending all the OTHER Terminators?!

This Dark Fate movie imo screws up a LOT of things. They could have said Skynet was defeated by the events of T2 AND still have set up all the events of Dark Fate. The "It's not over" nightmare scenario by replacing Skynet with Legion but having John Connor become one of MANY resistance leaders as well as Dani. However, they just couldn't seem to match lofty expectations around showing a future John Connor fighting the war. They seemed to give up after Salvation and a butchered version of Genisys.

[UniSol GR77]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

You only have such a timeline IF you include Dark Fate AND it still does not explain how The Resistance isn't able to send a 3rd protector AND who the hell is sending all the OTHER Terminators?!

Dark Fate occurs in the NEW, altered timeline. I've not written that, my friend.

Skynet managed to hide the third Terminator that it sent back in time. So the Resistance only knew about two Terminators, not 3.

The OTHER Terminators are sent by Legion. They are NEW Terminators.

[UniSol GR77]

The Dark Fate Timeline IN NUCE:

1984: 'The Terminator'.
1985: John Connor is born.
1995: 'Terminator 2: Judgment Day' - both first and second halves. The timeline is changed.
1996: The "Failsafe" T-800 materializes in the past anyway.
1998: Guatemala. The "Failsafe" T-800 kills John Connor.
2010-2020: Sarah destroys some "Legion"/REV Terminators coming from the NEW 2042 future.
2020: The events of DARK FATE.
2042: Legion sents Rev 9 back in time.

[kylor]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

The most stupid part of Dark Fate is that:

John Connor is killed only to be replaced by Dani Ramos
Skynet is replaced by Legion

When you're basically killing off existing characters that are far more interesting in build up and replacing them identically with BS set up, that's where Dark Fate went wrong.

There's a dozen other ways they could've evolved the story AND please, for the love of god, can SOMEBODY please explain to me WHY there's more and more Terminators being sent back and who's sending them back if Skynet is all but dead in a future timeline? It makes no damn sense how or WHY Skynet also sent back another Terminator T800 in Carl without the Resistance knowing. In all previous instances they did know and sent back a protector.

I feel like it begs the question then, IF John Connor didn't live in the future, HOW did he send back Kyle Reese? Now the movies got a huge gaping plot hole even bigger than before.

It feels like a bad fan-fiction that James Cameron said "Yep, let's go with that" without even blinking or even reading it. And trying to sell it as a direct sequel to T2? Off is the general direction where that needs to f***.

[StarWarsIsAwesome123]

Kyle Reese died for nothing.

[UniSol GR77]

Originally Posted by StarWarsIsAwesome123

Kyle Reese died for nothing.

No. He generated John Connor and turned Sarah in a warrior. John Connor and Sarah changed the timeline in 1995. Skynet never existed in the first place.