Justice League 4K UHD (2017)

[BluRayHiDef]

Originally Posted by NegaScott128

It's a 5 minute scene that's confusing for non-fans, has some very awkward fight choreography, doesn't really develop Batman's character beyond what is already established in other scenes (and in fact kinda muddies the water a bit), and due to the change in direction established by JL, doesn't even accomplish the sequel set-up that it was trying to do. As a bit of fanservice, it's kinda functional, but it should not have been included in the theatrical cut since it comes at the expense of more important scenes like the extended Nairomi sequence.

The Knightmare Sequence is a depiction of events that occur in a potential future and that parallel events that occur in the present-day time period of the film. Consider the similarities:

• In the present-day time period of the film, Batman attempts to intercept the delivery of a shipment of Kryptonite that's being transported by Lex Luthor's henchmen on a truck that belongs to Lex Corp.
• In the Knightmare Sequence, Batman rendezvous with mercenaries on a truck to acquire a shipment of Kryptonite.
• In the present-day time period of the film, Batman's attempt to acquire the Kryptonite is thwarted by Superman.
• In the Knightmare Sequence, when Batman's contact opens the case that supposedly contains the Kryptonite - which is a case that's labeled "Lex Corp" - Batman sees a green-glowing light bulb inside and subsequently realizes that he's been duped. He's subdued and is delivered to Superman.

As can be seen, the Knightmare Sequence's purpose is to allude to Batman's worst fear, which is a dark future in which Superman is evil, and to reaffirm that fear in the present-day time period of the film via events that parallel those in the Knightmare sequence.

[Dirk504]

Decided to go with the 4K steelbook. It’s definitely pricey, but there aren’t any new releases I want in February, so I’ll be splurging on this and the Thor Steelbook in March.

[ahossein79]

I know with WB's pricing poing this release will be for sure $29.99 day one and as disappointed I am with this movie their is no way I am getting this day one. I will be waiting til this dips below $19.99

[BluRayHiDef]

Originally Posted by Dirk504

Decided to go with the 4K steelbook. It’s definitely pricey, but there aren’t any new releases I want in February, so I’ll be splurging on this and the Thor Steelbook in March.

I decided likewise and ordered the SteelBook weeks ago.

[LoSouL]

Originally Posted by BluRayHiDef

I'm looking forward to this, because even though it's tonally inconsistent with MoS and BvS (UE), both of which I like, and even though its effects are poor in some areas, it's fun and reminds me of the JL animated series.

This is basically exactly how I feel about it at this point. It is what it is and I had a good time watching it at the theater.

[NegaScott128]

Originally Posted by LoSouL

I completely disagree.

[Show spoiler]



source used: https://www.vudu.com/movies/#!conten...ice-Theatrical

0:51:14 Bruce Wayne begins decryption sequence in which he will begin his vision quest.

+ 20 seconds

0:51:34 Cuts to black, sound of metal door initiates the Knightmare sequence

+ 3 minutes and 44 seconds

0:55:18 Batman's scream segues into Bruce Wayne "waking" from the Knightmare to be warned by Flash.

+ 37 seconds

0:55:54 Flash's "find them" reverberation segues into Bruce Wayne once again awaking, for real this time.

+ 15 seconds

0:56:09 Decryption completes after Bruce Wayne spends time looking perplexed.

Total: 4 minutes and 56 seconds

Apokolips sequence: 3 minutes and 44 seconds

Apokolips sequence + Flash sequence: 4 minutes and 21 seconds

That's not 5 minutes.

Here's the timecodes for the Ultimate Edition Blu-Ray.

- Cut to black at the start of the scene: 1:04:50 (closer to 1:04:51)
- Cut to Bruce waking up and seeing the Flash - exactly 1:09:19
- Cut to Bruce waking up after seeing the Flash - 1:09:55

Apokolips sequence: 4 minutes and 29 seconds
Apokolips + Flash: 5 minutes and 5 seconds

According to Movie-Censorship.com, the Knightmare is extended by 36.56 seconds in the Ultimate Edition. I used the UE as the basis for my "5 minute" comment.

I will concede that the theatrical version is not, in fact, 5 minutes long. However, the other points of my argument still stand, and the 36.56 seconds removed for the theatrical version do not change the fundamental problems with the scene, mostly just consisting of a few shots of a truck pulling up and stopping.

Originally Posted by BluRayHiDef

As can be seen, the Knightmare Sequence's purpose is to allude to Batman's worst fear, which is a dark future in which Superman is evil, and to reaffirm that fear in the present-day time period of the film via events that parallel those in the Knightmare sequence.

Again, "doesn't really develop Batman's character beyond what is already established in other scenes (and in fact kinda muddies the water a bit)." Nothing you said actually refutes that. We already know Batman fears Superman - we got that from the very beginning of the movie, and it's reiterated later on in the "1% chance" scene. If anything, the Knightmare contradicts the "1% chance" scene, since in that he's afraid of Superman because "he has the power to wipe out the entire human race," yet the Knightmare implies he's afraid of Superman subjugating humanity and ruling over it.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by pottyaboutpotter1

A VFX Artist on the film said the only VFX work being done after release was cleaning up a few shots and removing Iris from the deleted Flash scene and replacing her with a random woman as WB either wants to recast Iris or introduce her properly in Flashpoint.

Don't take something out of context to support your view. And if you do, don't use something that can be very easily debunked.

The only VFX work being done were these minor things being done by a small group of the full VFX team on Justice League. The bulk of the VFX team were moved onto other projects (the VFX artist in question was moved onto Aquaman) with many deleted sequences left unfinished and that is how they will remain for the foreseeable future. Once the work was finished, the plan was to move that small team onto other projects as well. The VFX artist stressed that it will cost a lot of money to finish the deleted sequences and they are currently in no state to be released as is.

I'm glad you have insider information on every VFX shot made for the film. That's wonderful. Thanks!

[BluRayHiDef]

Originally Posted by NegaScott128

Again, "doesn't really develop Batman's character beyond what is already established in other scenes (and in fact kinda muddies the water a bit)." Nothing you said actually refutes that. We already know Batman fears Superman - we got that from the very beginning of the movie, and it's reiterated later on in the "1% chance" scene. If anything, the Knightmare contradicts the "1% chance" scene, since in that he's afraid of Superman because "he has the power to wipe out the entire human race," yet the Knightmare implies he's afraid of Superman subjugating humanity and ruling over it.

It demonstrates to the audience that Batman's fear is a real possibility within the world of the movie and not just a catalyst for his character arc. Furthermore,

[Show spoiler]it paid off in JL - at least partially - via Supes' battle with the League post resurrection

.

[SwaGGInTheShadows]

Originally Posted by pottyaboutpotter1

A VFX Artist on the film said the only VFX work being done after release was cleaning up a few shots and removing Iris from the deleted Flash scene and replacing her with a random woman as WB either wants to recast Iris or introduce her properly in Flashpoint.

Don't take something out of context to support your view. And if you do, don't use something that can be very easily debunked.

The only VFX work being done were these minor things being done by a small group of the full VFX team on Justice League. The bulk of the VFX team were moved onto other projects (the VFX artist in question was moved onto Aquaman) with many deleted sequences left unfinished and that is how they will remain for the foreseeable future. Once the work was finished, the plan was to move that small team onto other projects as well. The VFX artist stressed that it will cost a lot of money to finish the deleted sequences and they are currently in no state to be released as is.

"A VFX Artist on the film said the only VFX work being done after release was cleaning up a few shots and removing Iris from the deleted Flash scene and replacing her with a random woman as WB either wants to recast Iris or introduce her properly in Flashpoint.*

Don't take something out of context to support your view.*"


Irony much? Lmao

[Sabre95]

After Man of Steel and Batman v Superman I don't want a Snyder Cut.

[pottyaboutpotter1]

Originally Posted by SwaGGInTheShadows

"A VFX Artist on the film said the only VFX work being done after release was cleaning up a few shots and removing Iris from the deleted Flash scene and replacing her with a random woman as WB either wants to recast Iris or introduce her properly in Flashpoint.*

Don't take something out of context to support your view.*"


Irony much? Lmao

How is it irony? That's exactly what the guy said. Sadly he deleted his AMA (presumably because he gave too much away and was at risk of losing his job) but had his identity verified. It's not out of context. He specifically said the only VFX work was cleaning up a few shots (note not finishing them) and replacing Iris with a random woman due to the mentioned reasons (which he was only speculating on).

[pottyaboutpotter1]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

I'm glad you have insider information on every VFX shot made for the film. That's wonderful. Thanks!

I don't have insider information, never claimed I did :P . The guy did an AMA on Reddit and had his identity verified by the moderators; he definitely was a VFX artist on Justice League and was legit.

It's a lot more to go from than a photoshopped message from a stunt guy.

[AdubW1982]

Originally Posted by pottyaboutpotter1

I don't have insider information, never claimed I did :P . The guy did an AMA on Reddit and had his identity verified by the moderators; he definitely was a VFX artist on Justice League and was legit.

It's a lot more to go from than a photoshopped message from a stunt guy.

Doesn't sound legit at all.

[SwaGGInTheShadows]

Originally Posted by pottyaboutpotter1

How is it irony? That's exactly what the guy said. Sadly he deleted his AMA (presumably because he gave too much away and was at risk of losing his job) but had his identity verified. It's not out of context. He specifically said the only VFX work was cleaning up a few shots (note not finishing them) and replacing Iris with a random woman due to the mentioned reasons (which he was only speculating on).

You misunderstood....
The irony is in the part of YOUR response i put in quotation...

You dont want Zod to take things out of context to support his view, yet you did the same thing...

Might as well agree to disagree, both sides have evidence to back them up, but we can't get a definitive answers from ourselves

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by SwaGGInTheShadows

You misunderstood....
The irony is in the part of YOUR response i put in quotation...

You dont want Zod to take things out of context to support his view, yet you did the same thing...

Might as well agree to disagree, both sides have evidence to back them up, but we can't get a definitive answers from ourselves

That's totally true. If WB or Zack Snyder himself would come out and just confirm or deny,all this ends. As it stands now it seems like even the people who don't think a Snyder Cut will be released is not because they deny it's existence, but because of the VFX being unfinished excuse. That is all a matter of perspective since there have been conflicting reports since the theatrical cut came out. Either way it would be nice to get a definitive yes or no from the horses mouth. For me one of the biggest pieces of evidence is simply because Zack Snyder himself liked a tweet for WB to release his Director's Cut. IF his cut isn't real, or isn't in any satisfying shape to be made public, why wouldn't Snyder just reply that he didn't have a complete releasable version?

[EbonDragon]

Both you and Potty are using “sources” of the same caliber. To act as if one has more believability over the other is nonsense bias. There’s a confirmed “Snyder Cut” that was a rough workprint, it was unfinished and that’s how it was left. It wasn’t ready for release so it would have to be finished first which would require further input from Snyder and more Post work. Anything else is rumor, hearsay and speculation.

The VFX AMA Potty cites is legit. The moderators confirmed his identity.

[NegaScott128]

Originally Posted by BluRayHiDef

It demonstrates to the audience that Batman's fear is a real possibility within the world of the movie and not just a catalyst for his character arc.

But it's a dream sequence. As far as 99% of the audience is concerned, it didn't (or isn't going to) really happen. And we already saw the potential of Superman's power in the opening. That's the whole reason the film starts there, and not 18 months after MoS like the rest of the movie. The entire point of that scene is to establish that Bruce is afraid of Superman's power, and it does this by showing the end of MoS from his perspective.

And if they wanted to make it clear that these events could happen, then they did a terrible job conveying that information. Bruce is not visibly older than he is in the rest of the movie, thus not making it clear that this is the future. If they did away with the stupid "trenchcoat over the Batsuit" look and just had Bruce with grey hair, it would be a very simple way to convey that time had passed. The Parademons also come out of nowhere and, along with the Darkseid references, make the future scenario needlessly convoluted. Is Superman supposed to be controlled by Darkseid? Is he willingly working alongside Darkseid? Why even have any hint of Darkseid if the point was to show that Bruce's fears about Superman are valid? Is this establishing the stakes of Bruce's murderquest, or is this setting up a sequel?

Having Flash appear out of nowhere without even establishing that he exists, let alone that he can time travel, and giving him a costume that does not make it obvious that he's supposed to be the Flash is confusing, and having Bruce wake up from that scene makes it even more so. And no, making a couple pieces of paper drop in the background isn't good enough. For 99% of the audience, that Flash bit was also a dream, and you can't count on people watching the movie 2 or 3 more times just to catch tiny background details that are for some reason crucial to understanding an entire action sequence.

If they just had the time portal close without showing Bruce waking up again, it would have been much clearer that this is indeed a possible future, and not just some weird dream that Bruce is having. For someone who's supposed to be a master of visual storytelling, Snyder sure seems to have a hard time understanding that when you show a character waking up after a really weird scene, it tells the audience that the previous scene was a dream.

Originally Posted by BluRayHiDef

Furthermore,

[Show spoiler]it paid off in JL - at least partially - via Supes' battle with the League post resurrection.

You really don't need to put spoiler tags on the fact that Superman comes back from the dead. Everyone knows he comes back. He's even on the cover.

If you're talking about Lois being "the big guns," then that's a pretty weak connection. If they wanted to call back to that scene, why not have Batman say "she's the key" in relation to Lois? Or even do anything at all to establish that this is supposed to reference the Knightmare?

[pottyaboutpotter1]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

That's totally true. If WB or Zack Snyder himself would come out and just confirm or deny,all this ends. As it stands now it seems like even the people who don't think a Snyder Cut will be released is not because they deny it's existence, but because of the VFX being unfinished excuse. That is all a matter of perspective since there have been conflicting reports since the theatrical cut came out. Either way it would be nice to get a definitive yes or no from the horses mouth. For me one of the biggest pieces of evidence is simply because Zack Snyder himself liked a tweet for WB to release his Director's Cut. IF his cut isn't real, or isn't in any satisfying shape to be made public, why wouldn't Snyder just reply that he didn't have a complete releasable version?

Zack Snyder liking a tweet isn't a big bit of evidence. It's an indication, not evidence. Zack confirming the existence of a Snyder cut would be a massive undermining of WB and the official story. Don't forget, that WB, DC, Zack and Joss all pushed "Joss is finishing the film as Zack wanted it" as the official story. Zack undermining that story later is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

It's an incredibly murky situation and I get you really want the cut released, I do, but I just don't want people to get their hopes up for eventual disappointment. While this isn't conclusive, I think the fact Variety and The Hollywood Reporter (who always jump on massive Hollywood conspiracies and controversies like this) haven't reported on the Snyder Cut is telling. Look how quickly they jumped on the story of Tom Cruise shadow directing The Mummy for instance or Suicide Squad's production troubles. To me, it indicates that a lot of the apparent evidence can't be corroborated with their sources which sheds doubt on its accuracy. I'm not basing all my thoughts on this one thing, but I will be doubtful until I see them (or another reliable outlet) print something about it.

[SwaGGInTheShadows]

Originally Posted by EbonDragon

Both you and Potty are using “sources” of the same caliber. To act as if one has more believability over the other is nonsense bias. There’s a confirmed “Snyder Cut” that was a rough workprint, it was unfinished and that’s how it was left. It wasn’t ready for release so it would have to be finished first which would require further input from Snyder and more Post work. Anything else is rumor, hearsay and speculation.

The VFX AMA Potty cites is legit. The moderators confirmed his identity.

"Both you and Potty are using “sources” of the same caliber. To act as if one has more believability over the other is nonsense bias.
The VFX AMA Potty cites is legit. The moderators confirmed his identity."

And? Lmao

And guys, this is where i (try to) fold...smh lol

[SwaGGInTheShadows]

Originally Posted by pottyaboutpotter1

Zack Snyder liking a tweet isn't a big bit of evidence. It's an indication, not evidence. Zack confirming the existence of a Snyder cut would be a massive undermining of WB and the official story. Don't forget, that WB, DC, Zack and Joss all pushed "Joss is finishing the film as Zack wanted it" as the official story. Zack undermining that story later is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

It's an incredibly murky situation and I get you really want the cut released, I do, but I just don't want people to get their hopes up for eventual disappointment. While this isn't conclusive, I think the fact Variety and The Hollywood Reporter (who always jump on massive Hollywood conspiracies and controversies like this) haven't reported on the Snyder Cut is telling. Look how quickly they jumped on the story of Tom Cruise shadow directing The Mummy for instance or Suicide Squad's production troubles. To me, it indicates that a lot of the apparent evidence can't be corroborated with their sources which sheds doubt on its accuracy. I'm not basing all my thoughts on this one thing, but I will be doubtful until I see them (or another reliable outlet) print something about it.

To be fair, i agree with you the tweet doesnt indicate much at all...