Justice League 4K UHD (2017)

[TheZoof]

Interesting takes. When I saw the Martha scene for the first time it blew me away. I loved it and how it was handled. I didn't think it was cheesy at all.

[film11]

The reason the scene never bothered me is because, even though of course I had always known the names of their moms, I had never made the obvious point-to-point connection before!

[pottyaboutpotter1]

Originally Posted by Traind

Great stories have layers of depth that many people, for various reasons, do not recognize or understand upon one reading, one viewing or perhaps never "get" at all. I am not saying that BvS is a great story, but your idea that all story elements must be recognized by all viewers or the author or filmaker has failed is, in a word, ludicrous.

That’s an over simplification of what I was saying.

If the audience at large either doesn’t understand or, as in Batman v Superman’s case, does understand but finds the execution bad then it is the fault of the author/Director. Bad storytelling is bad storytelling.

When an author hinges their entire plot on something, then that better work for everyone reading/viewing. You can have multiple levels to a story that work better on multiple viewings/readings, but the core story always needs to work as a stand-alone experience because you can’t guarantee everyone will watch/read more than once. Grant Morrison’s Arkham Asylum graphic novel is one of the most ethereal and strange Batman tales ever told. It has so many levels that only become apparent on multiple reads. But the core story of Batman enduring a night from hell locked in Arkham Asylum with his greatest foes works the first time through as an entirely standalone experience. mother! has many depths to the story that only become apparent on multiple watches. But the core story of a heavily pregnant woman witnessing her precious house fall to ruin while her husband enjoys adoration from the masses still works as a stand-alone experience - mostly. The core stories of The Shining and Nocturnal Animals still work on a single viewing. Multiple viewings can enhance or shed light on what was already there, but they should never be necessary to actually know what the core story is.

The Martha moment is meant to be the moment the entire story of Batman v Superman hinges on. But this moment falls incredibly flat and for the majority it just didn’t work at best and was downright laughable at worst. This isn’t a problem with the audience. This is entirely a problem with the storytelling.

[pottyaboutpotter1]

Originally Posted by cynatnite

Agreed. Short of holding out a sign explaining that scene with the previous scenes showing it's importance, I'm not sure what else could've been done to make it clearer.

1. Change the line to “You’re letting him kill her!”

2. Cut the flashback. Focus tight on Bruce’s horrified expression. Have him look down at the spear in his hands. Look from the spear to Clark. Then have him throw away the spear in disgust and shame.

Now the same message has been imparted, in a much quicker and more intimate way without the incredibly bad Martha nonesense.

[Traind]

Originally Posted by pottyaboutpotter1

That’s an over simplification of what I was saying.

If the audience at large either doesn’t understand or, as in Batman v Superman’s case, does understand but finds the execution bad then it is the fault of the author/Director. Bad storytelling is bad storytelling.

When an author hinges their entire plot on something, then that better work for everyone reading/viewing. You can have multiple levels to a story that work better on multiple viewings/readings, but the core story always needs to work as a stand-alone experience because you can’t guarantee everyone will watch/read more than once. Grant Morrison’s Arkham Asylum graphic novel is one of the most ethereal and strange Batman tales ever told. It has so many levels that only become apparent on multiple reads. But the core story of Batman enduring a night from hell locked in Arkham Asylum with his greatest foes works the first time through as an entirely standalone experience. mother! has many depths to the story that only become apparent on multiple watches. But the core story of a heavily pregnant woman witnessing her precious house fall to ruin while her husband enjoys adoration from the masses still works as a stand-alone experience - mostly. The core stories of The Shining and Nocturnal Animals still work on a single viewing. Multiple viewings can enhance or shed light on what was already there, but they should never be necessary to actually know what the core story is.

The Martha moment is meant to be the moment the entire story of Batman v Superman hinges on. But this moment falls incredibly flat and for the majority it just didn’t work at best and was downright laughable at worst. This isn’t a problem with the audience. This is entirely a problem with the storytelling.

I agree that sometimes storytelling fails-- after your post just now I see we are probably mostly in agreement on principle, which was not clear from your first post on the subject..

I think you are significantly over-reaching saying that the Martha plot device was not understood by or did not work for the majority... there is no way to know that.

By the way, if I am interpreting your forum name correctly...Harry Potter is a fantastic example of a modern story with layers of depth and meaning.

[Traind]

Back to JL, from an action standpoint I liked how they set up Steppenwolf with the Amazons. He was powerful and threatening. The flashback shows that they needed Amazons, Atlanteans, men , green lanterns and the Greek gods to defeat him the first time.

The JL struggles with their first encounter with him but as soon as Superman returns the villain becomes a paperweight. I suppose that might be accurate from the comics.... I never was much of a DC fan as a kid... but for me it just needlessly deflates the story. So many times in Hollywood the writers and directors don't seem to understand that a villain easily defeated makes the hero less heroic.

Heros should struggle to win. Instead, Superman completley overwhelms and Wonder Woman never gets a scratch on her, despite Steppenwolf having torn through her fellow Amazons like a knife through warm butter. These are simple things to get right but they are often missed. Anyone feel the same way?

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by Traind

Back to JL, from an action standpoint I liked how they set up Steppenwolf with the Amazons. He was powerful and threatening. The flashback shows that they needed Amazons, Atlanteans, men , green lanterns and the Greek gods to defeat him the first time.

The JL struggles with their first encounter with him but as soon as Superman returns the villain becomes a paperweight. I suppose that might be accurate from the comics.... I never was much of a DC fan as a kid... but for me it just needlessly deflates the story. So many times in Hollywood the writers and directors don't seem to understand that a villain easily defeated makes the hero less heroic.

Heros should struggle to win. Instead, Superman completley overwhelms and Wonder Woman never gets a scratch on her, despite Steppenwolf having torn through her fellow Amazons like a knife through warm butter. These are simple things to get right but they are often missed. Anyone feel the same way?

That entire chase scene with Steppenwolf and the Amazons was one the th highlight reels for me. We were all almost hoping

[Show spoiler]that Steppenwolf would fail in grabbing the box

[levcore]

I thought the action was really dynamic and exciting in this movie, even if the CG wasn't quite up to the task. It was just a bit disappointing that none of it felt as epic as BvS. I mean the big action finale in BvS takes up about45-50 minutes of the movie whereas in JL it begins at about an hour and a half in and the credits begin at an hour and 48 minutes.

[levcore]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

That entire chase scene with Steppenwolf and the Amazons was one the th highlight reels for me. We were all almost hoping

[Show spoiler]that Steppenwolf would fail in grabbing the box

What do you mean 'almost hoping'? He's the villain! We're not supposed to be rooting for him

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by levcore

What do you mean 'almost hoping'? He's the villain! We're not supposed to be rooting for him

I always cheer for the underdog

[legends of beyond]

I understand what the Martha scene means. The idea is good, really good even. The execution is just so bad though.

[Blumovie]

Originally Posted by hariseldon

Think that was the question though

Yes Warner are 99+% BD movies are region free
Yes JL BD is region free.

Yes -- all 4K are region-less/Region All/Worldwide/Region Free/Universal. I'm not really sure what to call since there isn't even a possibility to lock them

Thanks, I should have posted in the standard forum. Haven’t upgraded to UHD yet! Still on 1080p. Glad to hear this is region free.

[cynatnite]

The only big complaint I really have was Superman's costume. It just looked so fake on him, especially in the beginning with the cellphone video. Batman's did, too, but Superman's looked really bad to me.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by cynatnite

The only big complaint I really have was Superman's costume. It just looked so fake on him, especially in the beginning with the cellphone video. Batman's did, too, but Superman's looked really bad to me.

Would you have preferred the plain red and blue spandex costume from the old comics?

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by LoSouL

Dark Knight ends with Batman co-signing the idea of lying to the public, creating false heroes and villains to maintain order, after putting forward the idea that sometimes mass surveillance is ok as long as you can be trusted to give up power when the crisis is over. "Best movie ever."

Batman Vs Superman presents a world where everyone is terrified after seeing calamity in the world, as politics and the media is tearing everyone apart, but ultimately reminds us everyone had a mother who loved them, that we're all human and that it's never too late to relent. "Worst movie ever."

Simplified but I like where you're going. Nolan's movies have some conservative messaging, especially Rises IMO, but it's not super black and white. Same for BvS and its thoughts on weapons, technology and freedom. The real world is in a weird place right now and partisan political messages are easy to manufacture in my opinion but often hollow. Go to BirthMoviesDeath and you'll read about how amazingly liberal the Marvel movies are, while I would argue flicks like Civil War and Winter Soldier are some of the most Eastwood style conservative freedom blockbusters I've seen in a long time.

tl:dr everything's f-ing complicated and I think peoples' dislike of Snyder's style had a lot more to do with MoS, BvS and JL's reputations than anything else. BvS was hated from the moment they released costume photos.

[aetherhole]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

tl:dr everything's f-ing complicated and I think peoples' dislike of Snyder's style had a lot more to do with MoS, BvS and JL's reputations than anything else. BvS was hated from the moment they released costume photos.

While briefly skeptical originally, after mulling it over more, both Affleck's Batsuit and then the bat armor, I was sold. Completely different look than any of the other batmans. To me, BvS Batman looked the most "Batman" to me out of all the cinematic iterations, both in physique and costume.

I do like the modernized look of The Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises, but their bat suit are not comic book infused enough for my taste to be my favorite.

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by LoSouL

Dark Knight ends with Batman co-signing the idea of lying to the public, creating false heroes and villains to maintain order, after putting forward the idea that sometimes mass surveillance is ok as long as you can be trusted to give up power when the crisis is over. "Best movie ever."

Batman Vs Superman presents a world where everyone is terrified after seeing calamity in the world, as politics and the media is tearing everyone apart, but ultimately reminds us everyone had a mother who loved them, that we're all human and that it's never too late to relent. "Worst movie ever."

Well, to be fair, explaining the theme of a movie doesn't make it good or bad.

I think BvS fails the universe it's trying to build/set up.

Instead of Superman 2, Warners was in such a rush to have a universe, that they threw all at the wall right away.

We got introduced to Lex, Batman, Alfred, Wonder Woman, The Flash and threw in the Batman Vs Superman storyline, Doomsday storyline, and the Death of Superman, with a set up for Justice League with hints of Aqua Man and Cyborg... and this was the second freakin movie!!!

Now, they've had Superman fight the Justice League with zero stakes in the fight. Superman hadn't met most of them, and the others he interacted with for about 10 minutes.

The problem with the franchise is they keep trying to blow alk their big moments without earning them.

[StingingVelvet]

I for one am super glad BvS didn't spend much time introducing Batman. He just had a very successful trilogy from Nolan and a popular 90's series of films as well, plus the various cartoons. Last thing we needed was another Batman reboot film, and I hope DC continue to realize that. Man of Steel reintroduced Supes just fine after an arguably long absence since the Donner series. The only real "forced the universe too fast" thing I agree with is the stupid laptop video scene.

[RockyIII]

Can anyone who owns the French edition check whether the English language "Atmos" track included on the disc is actually Dolby Digital Plus WITH Atmos and not Dolby True HD with Atmos metadata?

[TheBoss062]

So what is the future of the DCEU after this film's disappointment? Hope it's not cancelled.