Justice League 4K UHD (2017)

[Rizor]

Originally Posted by Filmfan73

I never understood the praise for Joss Whedon. Yes, his Buffy series was well written, but look at the writers attached to his team. First Avengers film was decent, second one was terrible. I don't get it.

Whedon's strength is as a writer/story/dialogue guy. He was a regular script doctor in the '90s and early '00s and had credited and uncredited gigs on many major Hollywood movies. Depending on who you ask, some credit him for saving the first "Toy Story" and films like "Speed", for example. He's kind of a JJ Abrams in a way, though his strengths are more on the writing side than directing.

Regarding his TV work, for my part, I really like Buffy and Angel but both series have their ups and downs - though he usually has a writer credit on the better episodes. I like Firefly less than most. I didn't like Dollhouse. Couldn't stand the pilot of Agents of SHIELD.

For comic book fans, he's someone that has a great understanding of how the characters work, how they might interact, and could come up with some fun ways for them to bounce off one another. You can see this in his comic book work (Astonishing X-Men) and the Avengers movies. He also served as something of a consultant and had a hand in some rewrites/shepherding on some of the Phase 1 and Phase 2 MCU movies. Whedon seemed to clash creatively with Feige on "Avengers: Age of Ultron" and has voiced his dissatisfaction with that experience.

Some negatives. His voice is rather strong. Humor is rather quippy and quirky. Seemed to work fine for the MCU though, especially with RDJ's performance already leaning into that style. But some may find Whedon's style a bit grating.

With regard to his work on Justice League, it seemed like an impossible job to mold Snyder's vision and style into something WB wanted, which by most accounts was more lighthearted and MCU-ish. Whedon's material is clearly evidenced in the humor and team interactions. The Russian(?) family subplot feels like his as well. Ultimately, the theatrically released film feels rather Age of Ultron-y to me. It seems Whedon has been under the same non-disclosure type of deal that Snyder had been, but he's also hinted at his displeasure with the final film. I imagine he largely took the job because he was moving towards a relationship with WB/DC (with Batgirl). Not to mention, this rewrite/reshoot type gig is pretty common in the blockbuster business, it's just gotten more press in recent years.

[Member-425016]

Originally Posted by Rizor

For comic book fans, he's someone that has a great understanding of how the characters work, how they might interact, and could come up with some fun ways for them to bounce off one another. You can see this in his comic book work (Astonishing X-Men) and the Avengers movies.

I thought his Astonishing X-Men run was very uneven. Started out very strong in the character department(especially Kitty Pride) I think by issue 9, 0r 10 I was completely finished with it as the story arc fell completely flat (as did the character writing).

Likewise with Buffy/Angel Sure he had some standout episodes (especially the early years of Buffy) but as time went on, his work diminished as well. Dollhouse was painful, and Firefly was good but my favorite episode was from Ben Edlund "Jaynestown" which is the highlight of the series IMO.

[captveg]

Originally Posted by pbz06

What if the Snyder cut ends up sucking more? =X

Here's how it's gonna go down:

- The majority who really like MoS and BvS will like ZSJL
- The majority who really don't like MoS and BvS will not like ZSJL

Which is far better than both groups not liking the theatrical JL

[Pyoko]

My issue with the Whedon/MCU style is that while it may get the occasional smirk from me, the endless quipping and making everything a joke feels empty on the whole, at best a bit of fun for the moment but nothing that leaves any lasting impression. It also seems to take down other aspects of the filmmaking that might otherwise be taken seriously, like cinematography. The Avengers was easily the worst, cheapest, least cinematic-looking production I had ever seen compared to its budget. About as visually captivating as a random episode of Grey's Anatomy.

I'm not really the target audience for these comic book movies though. Aside from the humor, which I could at least appreciate to some extent, the one thing that really bores me to tears are float-y/flight-y fight scenes, explosions, shockwaves, lightning bolts, energy beams and magic portals, which seems to make up the majority of them.

I recently gave the DC movies a chance though and what I really appreciated there was the serious tone and cinematic sense Snyder infused the movies with, similar to Nolan's Batman. I have never liked Superman, I don't think I had ever seen or read a Superman iteration that I really enjoyed, but I absolutely loved the part of Man of Steel after the Krypton intro and before the hour-long battle with Zod, thanks to Snyder, Nolan, Cavill and Adams (that's totally a law firm!) Likewise I thought BvS was great up until the resurrection of the ancient space troll.

Coming from that Justice League was a disappointment for how much closer to the MCU it felt. I guess that's what most people want but personally I think it's a shame, why do we need two mega-blockbuster franchises that do the exact same thing? Even from the get-go the opening rooftop scene was laughable in its direction, action, editing and gags, and not in a good way. Although I don't expect any miracles I'm looking forward to seeing how the Snyder cut will turn out, and I'm glad that it at least happened.

[captveg]

Originally Posted by Rizor

The Russian(?) family subplot feels like his as well

It is.

Content in theatrical JL that is 100% Whedon's contribution (on behalf of WB execs). Not a complete list:

- Batman vs. parademon opening scene
- Any Superman scenes with CGI lip replacement (opening, farm scenes - basically every line of dialogue by Cavill except the ending moment about Bruce having bought the bank)
- Martha/Lois "thirsty" scene
- Everything with the Russian family
- Superman and Flash hero moments with Russian family / civilians in final battle (they repurposed some of Snyder's Flash speedforce time reversal footage here)
- Steppenwolf being dragged back to Apokolips by parademons
- Most any scene with Cyborg outside of some action sequences, and even those are often aesthetically altered.
- Post-credit Superman vs. Flash race
- Conversation between Bruce and Diana in Bruce's private quarters
- Retrieving Superman's body at grave (Snyder shot a different version with Arthur and Diana also at graveyard)

Scenes that were intermixed / altered with Whedon shot footage

- Recruitment of Arthur
- Recruitment of Barry
- Sewer fight (shots rearranged, rescue of civilians altered, jokes added)
- Final battle (how members of the team are occupied, Cyborg's interaction with motherboxes, how Supes arrives/fights Steppenwolf)
- Deathstroke scene with Luthor (Whedon added "league of our own" dialogue, presumably removed Darkseid dialogue that followed up on Luthor's BvS ending scene)
- Cyborg being recruited by Wonder Woman
- Ancient battle (changed radically re: characters involved, removal of anti-life equation context)
- Superman vs. league fight (Snyder's is at night, Whedon changed to day, changed how/why Lois arrives, added Batman final joke, removed military involvement)
- Amazons vs. Steppenwolf
- Atlanteans v. Steppenwolf
- Wonder Woman courthouse fight/rescue
- Honestly, pretty much every scene you can think of

[shane01]

The Batcave/Bathangar group meeting was reshot as well. Some funky eyelines in that one. I wonder how much Synder would have conceded to WB had he not stepped away. I think his Justice League movie was still supposed to be "funnier" than Batman v Superman.

[captveg]

Originally Posted by shane01

The Batcave/Bathangar group meeting was reshot as well. Some funky eyelines in that one. I wonder how much Synder would have conceded to WB had he not stepped away. I think his Justice League movie was still supposed to be "funnier" than Batman v Superman.

I mean, he had Batman with some sardonic humor ("I'm rich." "I'm real when it's useful"), and of course Flash ("sitting in my second favorite chair"), so it wouldn't be a film devoid of humor.

Bruce/Diana exchange as another example:

More or More or More or Less? - YouTube

[CHONK!]

Definitely will re:up for an alternate cut.

edit: looks like it’s exclusively coming to HBO MAX streaming

[morphinapg]

Originally Posted by captveg

It is.

Content in theatrical JL that is 100% Whedon's contribution (on behalf of WB execs). Not a complete list:

- Batman vs. parademon opening scene
- Any Superman scenes with CGI lip replacement (opening, farm scenes - basically every line of dialogue by Cavill except the ending moment about Bruce having bought the bank)
- Martha/Lois "thirsty" scene
- Everything with the Russian family
- Superman and Flash hero moments with Russian family / civilians in final battle (they repurposed some of Snyder's Flash speedforce time reversal footage here)
- Steppenwolf being dragged back to Apokolips by parademons
- Most any scene with Cyborg outside of some action sequences, and even those are often aesthetically altered.
- Post-credit Superman vs. Flash race
- Conversation between Bruce and Diana in Bruce's private quarters
- Retrieving Superman's body at grave (Snyder shot a different version with Arthur and Diana also at graveyard)

Aside from the "thirsty" bit, and the CGI lip, I actually really like most of those additions. Especially the scene between Bruce and Diana, which I think retroactively makes BvS even better.

Originally Posted by shane01

I wonder how much Synder would have conceded to WB had he not stepped away. I think his Justice League movie was still supposed to be "funnier" than Batman v Superman.

It absolutely was:

Justice League Special Comic-Con Footage - YouTube

Basically, WB had Snyder scrap his original script for Justice League after BvS came out, and made him rewrite it to be far less dark, and much more of a lighter movie overall. He probably didn't go as far as they wanted, but he did indeed make it significantly lighter than either Man of Steel or BvS.

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by tyrok

Zack Snyder's $20M-Plus 'Justice League' Cut Plans Revealed

"But, adds Deborah, "With the new platform and streaming services, you can have something like this. You can’t release something like this theatrically, but you could with a streaming service. It’s an opportunity that wasn’t there two years ago, to be honest."

errr discs??? been out for years....

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by spider-neil

I like the start of MoS.
I like the Batman and Wonder Woman parts of BvS
But regardless of whether or not I like the DCEU Snyder movies I thought they were tonally consistent, the JL was a disgrace.
My favorite character of BvS (Batman) who was such a bad arse in that movie becomes a punchline in JL. 'Oh, yeah, something is definitely bleeding', and 'I'm rich'.
******* rubbish.
Bring on the Snyder Cut. I will even get a HBO Max subscription to watch it.

MoS, wasn't much of a fan other than some scenes with Lois Lane
didn't like the vibe, some extremely over extended boom bam action

I actually liked BvS a fair degree more. Even the JL we got a decent bit more (very poor villain, but then again a majority of these comic books movies have pretty weak villains (old Superman movies did better, WW not as bad as many) nothing even within a thousand miles of say villains in Star Wars universe who are often every bit as good as the heroes, be it DC or Marvel and get stuck with some endless 'boss' fight or two or three, Marvel sometimes laughs off anything serious or sincere, liked how WW wasn't afraid of that stuff). Aquaman wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more. WW infinitely more.

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by Filmfan73

I never understood the praise for Joss Whedon. Yes, his Buffy series was well written, but look at the writers attached to his team. First Avengers film was decent, second one was terrible. I don't get it.

A lot may be studio influence, they want a lot more boom bang action. Buffy had so much more story and character interaction than what he had to deliver for big Avengers movies so they seemed only partly Whedonesque.

[captveg]

Originally Posted by WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW

"But, adds Deborah, "With the new platform and streaming services, you can have something like this. You can’t release something like this theatrically, but you could with a streaming service. It’s an opportunity that wasn’t there two years ago, to be honest."

errr discs??? been out for years....

They wouldn't be able to get the additional funding with video sales alone in 2018.

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by captveg

They wouldn't be able to get the additional funding with video sales alone in 2018.

you don't think everyone tweeting like mad for the cut would get the disc if discs were the only thing around?

[captveg]

Originally Posted by WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW

you don't think everyone tweeting like mad for the cut would get the disc if discs were the only thing around?

That wouldn't make up for the $20-30m cost like HBO Max subscriptions will.

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by captveg

That wouldn't make up for the $20-30m cost like HBO Max subscriptions will.

but how many extra subs does it bring HBO Max? with a disc sale the entire thing goes directly to that specific budget covering

maybe it does bring in that many more subscribers, I wonder though
also I think people are starting to be like need this and that and that and that streaming service and next thing you know it's more than cable + blockbuster rentals. Not sure 100 different streaming services can survive, but who knows.

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW

you don't think everyone tweeting like mad for the cut would get the disc if discs were the only thing around?

When the internet gets what it wants, it never follows through

[Member-425016]

Originally Posted by WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW

A lot may be studio influence, they want a lot more boom bang action. Buffy had so much more story and character interaction than what he had to deliver for big Avengers movies so they seemed only partly Whedonesque.

Which is why I didn't really care for 'Serenity'. The planned outline from Joss for the remaining (6 seasons worth) story of Firefly trapped in a two hour Was a mistake to me anyway.

[fitprod]

Originally Posted by captveg

That wouldn't make up for the $20-30m cost like HBO Max subscriptions will.

But as has been proven by the DC Universe releases, you still try to recoup as much as possible. There is no way this title doesn't get a physical release at some point, that's leaving money on the table...

Especially since HBO Max is not going to take off like Disney+, other than grand-fathering in people that already have HBO. Be it HBO, or HBO Go.

fitprod

[spider-neil]

This is going to get released on 4K blu-ray, surely?