Halloween 4K UHD (1978)

[Geoff D]

On a different note, what slays me with the UHD's audio situation is that it's not like Lionsgate took the existing Anchor Bay TrueHD/DD encodes, tacked on a few seconds of silence to cover the added Lionsgate logo and just slapped them onto the UHD. No, they've re-encoded both sources, with the TrueHD 7.1 upgraded from 16-bit to 24-bit and the "mono" has changed from 192 kb/s 2.0 DD to 384 kb/s 1.0 DD, so it's not like the intent wasn't there to make this a quality all-round release in terms of the audio (yes I know the mono isn't lossless but even the bitrate of Shout's mono lossless track is 557 kb/s).

[edit] Unfortunately that makes the mono snafu look even more careless, as the intent for quality is about as useful as a concrete parachute when deployed in service of a downmixed mono track that satisfies neither the purists or the "fill mah speakers" crowd (who'd never have gone near it anyway, original or not). There's literally no reason for it to even exist. Yet it does, always lurking, never dying no matter how many bullets are pumped into it. It just disappears into the night, ready to pounce on the next unsuspecting home video release of Halloween!

[mikey horror]

So to save myself the time of going through the 145 pages this thread, the only blu-ray disc in existence that has the original mono track is disc one of the 10 and 15 disc box sets, correct?

[4kUltraBD]

Originally Posted by mikey horror

So to save myself an hour of time going through this thread, the only blu-ray disc in existence that has the original mono track is disc one of the 15 disc box set, correct?

The 2007 BD that comes with the 4k disc in the USA also contains the original mono audio.

Hope that helps.

[tehthomas]

So I sat down and watched this 4K disc for the second time last night (the first time I watched it was just really only paying attention to pq and color levels, blah blah) this second time I just wanted to enjoy the film and in doing so, this 4K disc is amazing and the best viewing experience yet, and I've watched this film in various formats/releases over the years (I was born in mid 80s and started buying it in the mid-90s on VHS and so on) and in theaters (saw remastered version last year). I don't care about the original audio portion, the film sounded fine to me.

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by Noremac Mij

In this case it’s pretty minor. An extra thunder noise or two and a missing high frequency synthesizer sizzle in the car scene. I’m not losing sleep over it. And the 7.1 mix sounds great.

This is not The Terminator, where I can see a legit case to be made. Although in all honesty, the new mix of that sounds better to me.

The one that really irked me was Conan the Barbarian. That’s my favorite soundtrack of all time and the remix omitted entire choral pieces.

[HAL9K]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'm taking it that you're new to 4K HDR? The vagaries of tone mapping mean that any number of outcomes are possible when people are putting these things in and pressing 'play', but I can assure you that the video which people keep touting is hilariously out of whack, which is where the "gross oversaturation" comes from. Halloween 4K does not look like that in any way, Shape or form.

I wondered out loud that differences in opinion might be influenced towards this "monochromatic" look that some people are experiencing if they were directly comparing to the packed-in 2007 disc, meaning on their own setups, but seeing as you've referenced the "blu-ray.com caps" as being gospel I'll put on my condescending hat on again and say that you do realise the "caps" in the site's review are 1080p images from the 2007 Blu-ray...right? They're not even from the 35th anniversary Blu-ray, never mind the funking UHD!!

So, that's two out of three visual comparisons that are completely misrepresentative of this 4K disc, as for the third I don't see a blanket over/undersaturation across the movie in the capsaholic grabs (though even those grabs are still SDR converted and should still be taken with a pinch of salt) either way, and I never said I did. Some shots have a bit more colour than the 35th, some shots have less colour, though it's more of a change to the overall colour balance than anything. That's pretty much how this UHD transfer rolls, and what happens from there is up to the tone mapping gods to sort out.

[edit] And besides, YOU ASKED as to what's causing these differences between user experiences and I replied with a few thoughts. If people's answers don't match up with what you've clearly already formulated in your head then why ask the question at all? As I said at the top, it's clear you're new to 4K HDR so I'll finish by saying that display implementation of HDR has been one of the greatest tech industry ****-ups of all time, you could play the same disc on five different displays and get drastically different outcomes as a result because HDR just doesn't work like SDR. At all. But I speak with the didactic authority that I do because my HDR display has been calibrated to the correct 6500K colour temperature with the proper greyscale and the HDR brightness curve is tracking exactly where it should be, P3 primaries/secondaries are also tracking properly. I know what my display is doing on an objective level, I cannot speak towards the accuracy of anybody else's display which is why the amount of people whose opinions on UHD I actually trust is an extremely short list.

Okay. So let me ask you this. In your opinion, do you feel the cap-a-holic shots are a good representation of the differences between the 4K and 35th Blu? Namely in image #3 where the 4K looks much less "greyed out" than the 35th, and in image #6 where the 4K has far less of an overall green tint to it?

I'm not new to 4K HDR. I've had a Vizio P series for over a year. I'm just trying to decide if I would be happy with this title due to the conflicting reports.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by eddievanhalen

I love how The Exorcist remixed audio track on the BD sounds, either on The Version You've Never Seen or the Theatrical Cut.

As someone here already mentioned, these are two totally different audio mixes -- the DTS-HD Master Audio surround track on The Extended Director's Cut is based on a reworked audio master prepared for the DVD release (well, maybe earlier than that -- it may have been prepared for the 1999 theatrical re-release) of The Version You've Never Seen (which was released in Dolby Digital EX). The Theatrical Cut of the film on the Blu-ray was based on a previous (I can't even keep these straight anymore) surround remix from one of the Special Edition DVDs (if I remember right), which in itself was based on a remix of the mono track. At any rate, the audio on The Theatrical Cut of the film on Blu-ray isn't nearly in the same league as the remixed track on The Extended Cut; it almost comes across like a glorified mono track (though many purists prefer this).

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554

I can respect where you’re coming from but my problem with the remixes to Jaws and The Terminator, and even Grease to an extent, is I have the visuals of a movie from one time and the audio mix from another. For my tastes they just don’t always blend and in some cases are put to much up front instead of blending complimentary throughout the mix.

A big reason fans were psyched for the new 40th Anniversary release of Grease is the audio is sourced from an original six track. For the last 20 years all we’ve had is a revisionist remix that mixed the songs differently and added new Foley, much of which was unnecessary. For instance in You’re The One That I Want the 1998 mix added jacket sounds to when Danny and Sandy remove their jackets and toss them aside. While not a big deal, when you watch the scene with the original mix without those sounds you realize how unnecessary they feel when seen (or heard) with them. The new 40th Anniversary mix is as close to what we’ve gotten since the VHS days to the original mix.

Then there’s examples in Jaws and Terminator where some of the new additions are either awful or just change the feel to a scene. When the Terminator kills the wrong Sarah Connor, the scene is almost comedic now with the ‘pew pew’ gun sound effect. The pipe bombs in the tunnel go ‘poof’ and don’t echo like they did in the original. The shark in Jaws crashing through the boat window now sounds like a wine glass was broken. It’s almost laughable. The original sound wasn’t perfect either but at least IMO adds to how strong the shark is. In the mono, the boat creaks as it sinks which kinda adds to the seriousness of the situation. Those sounds are gone in the remix. Jaws has one of the most iconic themes in movie history yet the opening notes are virtually inaudible in the remix yet are crystal clear in the mono.

But I digress. We will agree to disagree. In the end we find something unique about our preferred mixes and that’s fine. Revised remixes don’t always work for me but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t for others.

All points taken; though I will disagree with one point -- I don't feel, personally, that the opening notes in the Jaws theme are virtually inaudible in the remix (at least not on the DTS track on the Collector's Edition DVD I own).

[Rizor]

Watched the 4K disc and I thought it looked pretty good.....once I boosted the color levels on my TV!

Anyway, I'd seen this once on DVD maybe 15 years ago. Thought it was okay, but never really got the love. Watching it again, it's well made for what it is, but dunno if it really needed 9 sequels. Never saw any of those so I'll embark upon a watch through of the complete franchise.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by Rizor

Thought it was okay, but never really got the love.

[LoSouL]

Originally Posted by Rizor

Anyway, I'd seen this once on DVD maybe 15 years ago. Thought it was okay, but never really got the love. Watching it again, it's well made for what it is, but dunno if it really needed 9 sequels. Never saw any of those so I'll embark upon a watch through of the complete franchise.

It's blasphemy, and they wouldn't exist without this one, but I like the Rob Zombie ones most. I do like the OG Halloween though, just not a cult fan for it. It's got a great tone to it and is better than all the Friday the 13th movies even though Jason is >

Also blasphemy, but I like The Golden Child more than Big Trouble In Little China.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by LoSouL

I like the Rob Zombie ones most.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by HAL9K

Okay. So let me ask you this. In your opinion, do you feel the cap-a-holic shots are a good representation of the differences between the 4K and 35th Blu? Namely in image #3 where the 4K looks much less "greyed out" than the 35th, and in image #6 where the 4K has far less of an overall green tint to it?

I'm not new to 4K HDR. I've had a Vizio P series for over a year. I'm just trying to decide if I would be happy with this title due to the conflicting reports.

I'll admit that the caps comparisons are actually pretty good for colour. I took some photos for the hell of it, these are NOT 100% accurate as they add some different bias/colour temp of their own but the desaturation of green in the Laurie shot should be obvious and although the shot of the highway doesn't seem like much difference, open them in different tabs and flip between them, the 4K has slightly fuller colour and better definition on the dirt in the foreground just like in the caps shot.

Laurie:

[Show spoiler]
BD



UHD

the road

[Show spoiler]
BD



UHD

I'm seeing the same sort of pinky tint to the nurse's skin tones in the capsaholic car shot as well, what's interesting is that the bluey/purply lighting on the window and the seats is almost identical between the 35th and the 4K but the nurse's skin tone is lighter and more isolated in the 35th, seemingly more reflective of the whiter interior light source, whereas in the 4K her skin seems to be more reflective of the exterior lighting.

It's a pity there aren't any comparisons of the main steadicam walk and talk between the three girls though, as that bit definitely looks a touch cooler and less warm on 4K than the 35th (which itself is hardly bathed in a majorly autumnal golden glow). So, yeah, it comes back to what I've been saying repeatedly: some shots look more saturated in different parts of the image, some shots look less saturated, rinse and repeat. There isn't some wholesale jacking up of the colour going on here, nor has it been turned into "monochrome" (which is a line I keep referencing from JMK's review for this site) either. The 4K's colour has basically been fine-tuned from beginning to end but it's still much closer to the 35th than any other prior BD or DVD IMO.

Look, as I love to say when people are embarking on this great 4K adventure, ignore the reviews. The only way you're gonna know how your TV performs with it is to either suck it and see, or find a forums buddy with a very similar TV and viewing preferences to yours who's already taken the plunge. You want a definitive answer as to what it looks like and I don't blame you one bit, what I'm saying is that HDR is such a cluster**** of differing display technologies, tone mappings and settings that you may not get the answer that you want, particularly with an HDR grade that doesn't extend a great deal into the wider range which is actually much more tricky for displays to map accurately than you might think. Welcome to the club.

[crissrudd4554]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

All points taken; though I will disagree with one point -- I don't feel, personally, that the opening notes in the Jaws theme are virtually inaudible in the remix (at least not on the DTS track on the Collector's Edition DVD I own).

Well again it’s a matter of opinion. I don’t have that DVD but the 30th Anniversary DVD has a DTS track that I did play through VLC Player and it seems that track is derived from the same mix that the Dolby 5.1 track comes from so the opening notes are still lower in the mix when compared to the mono. I know it’s been confirmed the notes are still lower in the mix on the DTS track on the BD. But again I digress. The remixed Jaws is for my tastes overly revisionist and just doesn’t work for me. Like I said it’s like watching a movie from the ‘70s being dubbed with the audio from a movie from the late ‘90s. I can respect the attempt and those you like it but the mono mix remains the superior mix to me.

[HAL9K]

Originally Posted by Rizor

Watched the 4K disc and I thought it looked pretty good.....once I boosted the color levels on my TV!

Anyway, I'd seen this once on DVD maybe 15 years ago. Thought it was okay, but never really got the love. Watching it again, it's well made for what it is, but dunno if it really needed 9 sequels. Never saw any of those so I'll embark upon a watch through of the complete franchise.

A few things to remember before doing so:

- III has nothing to do with Michael Myers, although imo is a pretty awesome cult classic in itself

- There are two pretty much completely different versions of part 6

- H20 and Resurrection ignore the events of 3 (obviously), 4, 5, and (both versions of) 6

Enjoy. I really like all of the movies.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554

Well again it’s a matter of opinion. I don’t have that DVD but the 30th Anniversary DVD has a DTS track that I did play through VLC Player and it seems that track is derived from the same mix that the Dolby 5.1 track comes from so the opening notes are still lower in the mix when compared to the mono. I know it’s been confirmed the notes are still lower in the mix on the DTS track on the BD. But again I digress. The remixed Jaws is for my tastes overly revisionist and just doesn’t work for me. Like I said it’s like watching a movie from the ‘70s being dubbed with the audio from a movie from the late ‘90s. I can respect the attempt and those you like it but the mono mix remains the superior mix to me.

Like you said...a matter of opinion.

I believe both the Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS tracks are derived from the same master for those DVD releases...

[Rizor]

Originally Posted by HAL9K

A few things to remember before doing so:

- III has nothing to do with Michael Myers, although imo is a pretty awesome cult classic in itself

- There are two pretty much completely different versions of part 6

- H20 and Resurrection ignore the events of 3 (obviously), 4, 5, and (both versions of) 6

Enjoy. I really like all of the movies.

Thanks. I've already done some research heading into this watch through. Currently watching II and it's not doing much for me. The ones I'm looking forward to the most are III, H20, 4&5 and I've heard positive things about the Rob Zombies. Also curious about 6 though I hear it's still not that great. Maybe the mystique of the "Producer's Cut" or a campy pre-fame Paul Rudd performance?

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by HAL9K

A few things to remember before doing so:

- III has nothing to do with Michael Myers, although imo is a pretty awesome cult classic in itself

- There are two pretty much completely different versions of part 6

- H20 and Resurrection ignore the events of 3 (obviously), 4, 5, and (both versions of) 6

Enjoy. I really like all of the movies.

I made my own cut of Halloween 6 combining scenes from both the Producer’s Cut and theatrical cut. I think it’s better than either of the official cuts.

[dcowboy7]

If we have all these situations with 4k whats gonna happen when 8k hits.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Look, as I love to say when people are embarking on this great 4K adventure, ignore the reviews. The only way you're gonna know how your TV performs with it is to either suck it and see, or find a forums buddy with a very similar TV and viewing preferences to yours who's already taken the plunge.

This should be in bold italics at the top of the forum.