Superman: The Movie 4K UHD (1978)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by LexInHD

I wouldn't buy SR unless it had a new video master. The quality of the HD video master that was done for the film's release was poor and it's deficiencies carried over into the theatrical and home video presentations. Now that we have far more powerful post-production tools, they can easily handle the Genesis footage properly and put out better quality shots with HDR grading, but the 35mm/digital VFX stuff will always be as bad as it was when it was made, unless it gets redone.

It wasn't an "HD video master" but a 2K digital source master resulting from the DI, no different from many other films released at the time, and it will have a higher bit depth/dynamic range and wider colour gamut than any consumer HD release. And what does "more powerful post production tools" refer to exactly? They were shooting in log space on the Genesis at the time (so were avoiding a baked-in 709 conversion) and the HDCAM SR decks were recording it at 10-bit 4:4:4, that's plenty meaty, and even with the tools of the time the cinematographer noted that the quick video space conversion being done for on-set monitoring was compressing dynamic range vs the log original.

I saw the movie blown up to 15/70 IMAX and can assure you that the "deficiencies" of the home HD master like the chronic banding were not present. If people don't like the softness of the imagery then that was something that was entirely intentional, to give the movie a nostalgic feel combined with a very golden colour scheme. Unfortunately the trend of drenching stuff in teal to contrast all the warmth was very active at the time and it nulls the colour on the extant home video versions, but if they return to the DSM then, like with so many other movies from this period seen on 4K, they can do a fresh capture and breathe new life into the range and colour without having to do all this shit you all are talking about.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Res got nothing to do with it. Never has done. Nice new HDR grade to remove the teal drench plus a far betterer encode to get rid of the banding on the bit starved HD version and I’d be all over it.

Yep.

Hell, even Attack of the Clones looks better in UHD and that was far more primitive digital tech.

[pjvader]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I saw the movie blown up to 15/70 IMAX and can assure you that the "deficiencies" of the home HD master like the chronic banding were not present.

I can also confirm that the imax looked amazing "put your 3d glasses on now!"
then when i saw it projected digitally the banding was visisble, especially iirc the scene where he sits up in bed at the homestead.
that 3d imax presentation was one for the record books, the whole plane crash scene was a genuine heart racer at the BFI

[KcMsterpce]

Originally Posted by pjvader

I can also confirm that the imax looked amazing "put your 3d glasses on now!"
then when i saw it projected digitally the banding was visisble, especially iirc the scene where he sits up in bed at the homestead.
that 3d imax presentation was one for the record books, the whole plane crash scene was a genuine heart racer at the BFI

I saw it at Universal Studios IMAX 3d. I always find that I like a movie just the same (or it's just as bad) in 3d, or in 2d. The only exceptions: "Life of Pi", and "Mad Max: Fury Road".
But the company was good, and that's what I remember most from that viewing.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It wasn't an "HD video master" but a 2K digital source master resulting from the DI, no different from many other films released at the time, and it will have a higher bit depth/dynamic range and wider colour gamut than any consumer HD release. And what does "more powerful post production tools" refer to exactly? They were shooting in log space on the Genesis at the time (so were avoiding a baked-in 709 conversion) and the HDCAM SR decks were recording it at 10-bit 4:4:4, that's plenty meaty, and even with the tools of the time the cinematographer noted that the quick video space conversion being done for on-set monitoring was compressing dynamic range vs the log original.

I saw the movie blown up to 15/70 IMAX and can assure you that the "deficiencies" of the home HD master like the chronic banding were not present. If people don't like the softness of the imagery then that was something that was entirely intentional, to give the movie a nostalgic feel combined with a very golden colour scheme. Unfortunately the trend of drenching stuff in teal to contrast all the warmth was very active at the time and it nulls the colour on the extant home video versions, but if they return to the DSM then, like with so many other movies from this period seen on 4K, they can do a fresh capture and breathe new life into the range and colour without having to do all this shit you all are talking about.

I saw Superman Returns a dozen times in theaters in 35mm and the Blu-ray looks nothing like the prints I saw. The colors popped and the image had a very filmlike texture.

[RalphoR]

Watched this the other week and was wondering when Superman II 4k (Donner) will be announced? I thought it would have been by now.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by RalphoR

Watched this the other week and was wondering when Superman II 4k (Donner) will be announced? I thought it would have been by now.

Because of the rough, cobbled nature of the Donner Cut (it was never touted as a finished film and it was also cut in such a way that the DGA would allow him to gain sole directorial credit) and the fact the added effects are fairly low rez, I would bet the only version you will be seeing in 4k is the theatrical cut. To actually create a polished, movie theater grade edition, you would have to use the Donner and Lester versions as a hybrid cut, probably in the similar vein as the ABC TV Cut with Marlon Brando added back in and each director would have to get a Directed By screen credit.

[Canada]

Originally Posted by RalphoR

Watched this the other week and was wondering when Superman II 4k (Donner) will be announced? I thought it would have been by now.

I want the Donner cut as well but as FilmFreakosaurus said the added/different footage was lower quality and would make it hard to convert it to 4K.

[RalphoR]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Because of the rough, cobbled nature of the Donner Cut (it was never touted as a finished film and it was also cut in such a way that the DGA would allow him to gain sole directorial credit) and the fact the added effects are fairly low rez, I would bet the only version you will be seeing in 4k is the theatrical cut. To actually create a polished, movie theater grade edition, you would have to use the Donner and Lester versions as a hybrid cut, probably in the similar vein as the ABC TV Cut with Marlon Brando added back in and each director would have to get a Directed By screen credit.

Originally Posted by Canada

I want the Donner cut as well but as FilmFreakosaurus said the added/different footage was lower quality and would make it hard to convert it to 4K.

Sorry, I mistyped. I actually want the Lester cut. I keep forgetting it was the theatrical. I do want the Donner cut as well but I prefer the Lester. Good to know the info about the chances of the Donner cut in 4k....thanks.

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by Canada

I want the Donner cut as well but as FilmFreakosaurus said the added/different footage was lower quality and would make it hard to convert it to 4K.

Most of the added footage- even the screen tests- is the same quality 35mm negative that the rest of the movie exists on. Effects shots and the few new inserts shot when this was being put together probably only exist in 2K at best, but that's nothing new. They could be uprezzed.

Chris

[AndyMT]

Given the barely detectable volume of catalogue product WB put out, I wouldn't expect anything anytime soon.

They just don't seem hugely interested in this format - we get a few crumbs here and there, mostly limited to just classics.

I've pretty much given up on them for this series and will likely just watch my blu-ray again soon and be done with it - even if they were to release a 4k - which they won't.

[Bolty]

It's a pipe dream but I'd much prefer a hybrid cut of Donner/Lester.
Lester's Paris opening and Niagra footage with the rest from Donner -- skip the reprise of turning back time and also cut the "forget kiss" -- leave her with the knowledge of his identity.
I'd be happy as a lark.

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by Bolty

It's a pipe dream but I'd much prefer a hybrid cut of Donner/Lester.
Lester's Paris opening and Niagra footage with the rest from Donner -- skip the reprise of turning back time and also cut the "forget kiss" -- leave her with the knowledge of his identity.
I'd be happy as a lark.

Yeah, there's a pretty perfect ending that has Superman flying away from Lois on the roof, then going to beat up the bully. No need for the time turning back or any of that other nonsense, it works fine the way I just mentioned.

Chris

[Bolty]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

Yeah, there's a pretty perfect ending that has Superman flying away from Lois on the roof, then going to beat up the bully. No need for the time turning back or any of that other nonsense, it works fine the way I just mentioned.

Chris

Yep, for sure. It may have mattered in 1981 that she was left with the knowledge but at this point it's nothing to think about. And him taking care of the bully after he turns back time and the bully never assaulted him in the first place -- is the biggest bonehead continuity error I've ever seen.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Bolty

Yep, for sure. It may have mattered in 1981 that she was left with the knowledge but at this point it's nothing to think about. And him taking care of the bully after he turns back time and the bully never assaulted him in the first place -- is the biggest bonehead continuity error I've ever seen.

Like I mentioned, the Donner Cut is a strange beast, mainly because of him trying to get the DGA to drop Lester's name from the credits even if it hurt the flow of the film (if you reach a certain percentage threshold you can take full directorial credit) and showing a kind of "what might have been" if the Superman: The Movie ending was what he had wanted and the ending of Superman II sort of the way the screenplay was originally written.



Neither was meant to be thanks to the ******* Salkinds, so Superman II becomes kind of a mess until a quality hybrid can be made with the best of both Donner and Lester's contributions. It's possible, however it's a long shot. The ABC TV version from the 80's is a bit of a road map with some further revisions and additions. I'd definitely take out some of the silly stuff (roller skate man and the guy in the phone booth) that was inserted into the Metropolis battle and then stitch together the Lester and Donner fight sequences with cleaned up effects. I would leave the Lester dialog of Superman saying: General, would you care to step outside? I would also leave in the kid's death from the ABC TV cut. It's powerful and shows that the bad guys are sadistic.

[Chris1984]

Can’t believe WB still has not put out the other Superman movies on 4k. Every Batman movie is out in 4k but Batman 66 and that’s because it’s with Disney.

[Bolty]

They are stuck with Superman II because if they release the theatrical half the fans will be annoyed and vice versa and they can't be branched because of being too different. And how do you release III without first releasing some version of II?

[stvn1974]

The could put each version on their own disc.


Plus Disney now owning Batman The Movie make me sad.

[LexInHD]

The only Super-film likely to get a 4K release in the near future is the Supergirl film, because that's the only Superman character getting any attention and screen-time in the near future and WB needs something to release with The Flash, which is where the new Supergirl will be seen. Until WB sorts out what they want to do with Superman, we can't expect any further releases of Superman content beyond the Superman & Lois show.

[LexInHD]

Originally Posted by Bolty

Which version of Supergirl?

That's an open-ended question, since there are three versions of the film to present - Theatrical North American, International Theatrical, and Extended Cut - and we have no idea what archival materials WB and StudioCanal may have found since the HD master was made for the International Cut, which is the only cut that has been touched up and released since Anchor Bay's DVD efforts. From what has been said, WB and StudioCanal (Anchor Bay) were unable to locate the original Film/Audio elements and it had to be restored - for both DVD and Blu-Ray - from whatever was laying around. Due to the practices of the time and the poor relationship between the studio/production companies, the assets for the four Superman films had been misplaced for decades and incorrectly archived/catalogued until very recently, so I expect the same situation for Supergirl.