The Matrix 4K UHD (1999)

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

But it was really fun to watch that print with a bunch of fans-- there's a little funny part that I never noticed before-- when Neo is talking to Morpheus on the phone and sees the agents and goes "oh shit!' And then Morpheus says: "yesssss" That got a big laugh.

People always say big blockbuster action movies are the only reason to go to the theater, and they can stay home for everything else, but there is nothing more improved by a crowd than comedy.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Ok, so I went to go see a vintage 1999 35mm print of the movie and just for fun I'll leave my impressions since the color on this movie has been controversial pretty much since the original DVD release.

So I watched the 4K disc last week, and suddenly the opportunity came up to see this print so I saw both pretty close together, and then when I got home from seeing the print I went back through and spot checked some scenes on the UHD just for fun.

Basically it's what I think many people knew when they looked at the comparisons-- the print looked really close to the UHD for most of the movie (including the greens and yes-- many scenes with cyan lighting). BUT... the shoot-out and rooftop scenes definitely didn't have that cyan cast in the print. There are random shots that have some cyan lighting, mostly cast off of the walls in the building the agents are in holding Morpheus, but it's much fewer than the 4K transfer.

My purely speculative guess? Bill Pope wanted more cyan in those scenes, maybe because they didn't light it quite the way he wanted originally, so he pushed more of it on the new transfer and it's the one real revisionist quality to it. Regardless, IMO it doesn't really bother me and I think it fits in with the overall aesthetic of the movie.

But it was really fun to watch that print with a bunch of fans-- there's a little funny part that I never noticed before-- when Neo is talking to Morpheus on the phone and sees the agents and goes "oh shit!' And then Morpheus says: "yesssss" That got a big laugh.

[OutOfBoose]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Basically it's what I think many people knew when they looked at the comparisons-- the print looked really close to the UHD for most of the movie (including the greens and yes-- many scenes with cyan lighting). BUT... the shoot-out and rooftop scenes definitely didn't have that cyan cast in the print. There are random shots that have some cyan lighting, mostly cast off of the walls in the building the agents are in holding Morpheus, but it's much fewer than the 4K transfer.

Intro Trinity scene is also butchered with cyan. But that's basically what I was saying for a loooong time. They mostly added cyan to action scenes within the Matrix. Intro Trinity, rooftop, heli scenes, hallway shooting, the final action sequence between Smith and Neo. You can easily notice it by how different color saturation is between "native" 35mm and what they "improved" digitally.

Apparently a lot of people enjoyed the new color additions, but I just can't stand it. Why can't they f... leave these movie alone, as is. As they were made and released.

[Messana]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Basically it's what I think many people knew when they looked at the comparisons-- the print looked really close to the UHD for most of the movie (including the greens and yes-- many scenes with cyan lighting). BUT... the shoot-out and rooftop scenes definitely didn't have that cyan cast in the print. There are random shots that have some cyan lighting, mostly cast off of the walls in the building the agents are in holding Morpheus, but it's much fewer than the 4K transfer.

Would you happen to remember the color the lobby is during the shootout scene?

IIRC, it was more of a beige look in the DVD and behind the scenes footage, then it was changed to more of a desaturated dark green starting with the Blu Ray.

The Matrix Behind The Scenes - Shooting (1999) - Keanu Reeves Movie HD - YouTube

[Mierzwiak]

There's a [censorship, I don't want to get banned again] that looks nothing like the UHD.

[Lutz]

Ok, so I went to go see a vintage 1999 35mm print of the movie and let me tell you all the correct colour grading is RED.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by OutOfBoose

Intro Trinity scene is also butchered with cyan. But that's basically what I was saying for a loooong time. They mostly added cyan to action scenes within the Matrix. Intro Trinity, rooftop, heli scenes, hallway shooting, the final action sequence between Smith and Neo. You can easily notice it by how different color saturation is between "native" 35mm and what they "improved" digitally.

Apparently a lot of people enjoyed the new color additions, but I just can't stand it. Why can't they f... leave these movie alone, as is. As they were made and released.

Eh. If you think that most of the discs you own represent the movie "as made and released" I've got some magic beans to sell to you

[OutOfBoose]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Eh. If you think that most of the discs you own represent the movie "as made and released" I've got some magic beans to sell to you

When PJ drenched Fellowship in cyan, everyone noticed that. But with The Matrix I constantly fight with defenders of the new grade about basically the same thing. It's easy to tell when DPs or directors tries to alter their movies and when a movie stays fairly close to how it was originally most of the time, bearing in mind adaptation to newer hardware.

[Mierzwiak]

Originally Posted by OutOfBoose

When PJ drenched Fellowship in cyan, everyone noticed that. But with The Matrix I constantly fight with defenders of the new grade about basically the same thing.

But it's not the same thing. Even if PJ wanted to drench Fellowship in cyan, there's enough evidence that there's more to this story and the ENTIRE movie has a visible tint, which influences everything from (muted) highlights to skintones.

The Matrix is a whole different beast; it might not be close to what the movie looked back in 1999, but it's a result of an artistic choice, with each scene being graded separately. It's not like the whole movie is cyan now.

[OutOfBoose]

Originally Posted by Mierzwiak

But it's not the same thing. Even if PJ wanted to drench Fellowship in cyan, there's enough evidence that there's more to this story and the ENTIRE movie has a visible tint, which influences everything from (muted) highlights to skintones.

The Matrix is a whole different beast; it might not be close to what the movie looked back in 1999, but it's a result of an artistic choice, with each scene being graded separately. It's not like the whole movie is cyan now.

Tint varies from shot to shot in Fellowship. Sometimes it's aggressively cyan or teal, in other instances it's yellow-ish. It certainly looked like an artistic choice. I can agree that in The Matrix it's used differently. Where, for example, they exclude skin tones and tint remaining portions of a frame in cyan.

[blse59]

This is why we shouldn't let DPs have the final say. Of course they are going to do tweaks here and there - they can't resist. Hard to believe the DVD is the best version in terms of color.

It makes no sense for the rooftop shootout to have a cyan tint. They are knee deep inside the matrix. Cyan is for when they're outside of the matrix. Also if I remember correctly, on the UHD the office scenes in the beginning of the movie when he is at work seemed to rotate between green, cyan, and neutral.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by OutOfBoose

Intro Trinity scene is also butchered with cyan. But that's basically what I was saying for a loooong time. They mostly added cyan to action scenes within the Matrix. Intro Trinity, rooftop, heli scenes, hallway shooting, the final action sequence between Smith and Neo. You can easily notice it by how different color saturation is between "native" 35mm and what they "improved" digitally.

Apparently a lot of people enjoyed the new color additions, but I just can't stand it. Why can't they f... leave these movie alone, as is. As they were made and released.

To be honest I didn't notice much difference except towards the end. Most of the movie in the print was a mix of green and cyan, but the shoot out was only a mild green, and in the rooftop scene the sky was almost bleached white and definitely none of that blue on the 4K.

Originally Posted by Messana

Would you happen to remember the color the lobby is during the shootout scene?

IIRC, it was more of a beige look in the DVD and behind the scenes footage, then it was changed to more of a desaturated dark green starting with the Blu Ray.

It was a mild green tint-- definitely not the beige of the DVD, and not nearly as heavy a tint as the Blu-Ray transfer. The UHD looked about similar to the print when they first walk into the building and start shooting their way in, but as the scene goes on the 4K adds some blue lighting and reflections that were definitely not on the print.

[BrokenGlass41]

Originally Posted by Lutz

Ok, so I went to go see a vintage 1999 35mm print of the movie and let me tell you all the correct colour grading is RED.

It's puce, guys. The true color is puce.

[Brian81]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

To be honest I didn't notice much difference except towards the end. Most of the movie in the print was a mix of green and cyan, but the shoot out was only a mild green, and in the rooftop scene the sky was almost bleached white and definitely none of that blue on the 4K.




It was a mild green tint-- definitely not the beige of the DVD, and not nearly as heavy a tint as the Blu-Ray transfer. The UHD looked about similar to the print when they first walk into the building and start shooting their way in, but as the scene goes on the 4K adds some blue lighting and reflections that were definitely not on the print.

How does the remastered BD compare?

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Brian81

How does the remastered BD compare?

Not great— it’s the same remaster but they did a pretty poor job converting it to SDR and it has a lot of blown out highlights. I’d honestly recommend the old Blu-ray’s of all three movies over those.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Not great— it’s the same remaster but they did a pretty poor job converting it to SDR and it has a lot of blown out highlights. I’d honestly recommend the old Blu-ray’s of all three movies over those.

Not just the highlights, even the colour's really different from the UHD in some spots. Weird all round.

E.g.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The Matrix evolutions:



Here are some photos of a screen, COMPLETELY non-scientific and soooooo not to be used for forensic analysis but **** it, you're getting them anyway:

1999 R1 DVD:



2008 Blu-ray:



2018 Blu-ray:



2018 UHD Blu-ray:

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Not just the highlights, even the colour's really different from the UHD in some spots. Weird all round.

I never liked the new BD either. I will continue to stick with the UHD.

[KMFDMvsEnya]

Crap HDR to SDR conversion for the blu-ray.

The UHD color grade has some 'interesting' choices and a few errors.

[Mr. Chaverria]

I get it and mostly okay w/ it but I do wish we could have kept the original color timing too. It shows the film of where it was contextually.

I actually enjoy that they added more green into the Matrix scenes because now it all fits better but still... It's not the way it originally looked. For the sake of history, I wish we could also have the original colors on the film to get that version.

I love that early BD set all the same.

I'll get the UHD set at some point.

[Telemachus]

The DVD looks great, the UHD looks like a marriage between the DVD shot and the old BD, I never liked the old BD the green just looked awful everytime I watched it. If the print looked more magenta or blue I could imagine that.