Superman: The Movie 4K UHD (1978)

[WJWS Channel 13:Amity]

Cant believe best buy isnt carrying this in store.

[captainsolo]

Originally Posted by fighthefutureofhd

UM, You smoking crack or what? Just look at the deals tab and you'll see a ton of 4K UHDs under $20.00. I just bought 4 UHDs for under $60.00. How much cheaper do they have to be? They're not got to sell for $5.00 or less. And I hope they never do. We complain about streaming and digital media taking over and bemoan the eventual end of physical product. But when a physical product is out that we can purchase we complain that it costs too much. Can't have your damn cake and eat it too!!

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

And after all of these positives you're complaining about the price?

I guess I should have clarified, I was referring to the hardware and display cost. I can't currently afford an OLED otherwise I'd be all over this. Heck, I'm still thinking about buying a copy to show support for catalog titles.

Originally Posted by Matt89

I really love Superman, but I'm a little ashamed to admit that I've never seen any of the sequels. I know about the troubled production history surrounding Superman II and it's made me really curious to check out both cuts. The only thing is, it looks like I'll have to get the anthology set just to get the theatrical cut of part II, and I'm not so sure about the sequels beyond that. How bad we talking regarding Superman III and IV? I have a thing for campy Cannon productions, but are they like Jaws 4-level bad, where they're just completely terrible and have almost no redeeming qualities? Or are they cheesy campy bad where the film is ridiculous but still fun? Trying to decide whether it's worth paying CDN $34.99 (ontop of getting the UHD of the first film) when I just want the 2 cuts of Superman II and the bonus disc.

Is it a pretty good set? Worth 35 bucks?

~Matt

Don't worry. I never saw 3 and 4 in their entirety until a year or two ago. We harp on about how bad they are but admittedly they're not the worst things in the world. III has 20-30 minutes of golden material with dreadful muck. I honestly can sit through IV easier despite the hideously poor budget. And there are additional scenes that help flesh out the narrative in ways.

The set is absolutely worth it for getting all of the bonus stuff. The UK set is region free and is generally far less expensive. I think I paid less than $20 for mine. (However do keep in mind most of the extras were made for the DVD anthology set and are in standard def. You can get that whole DVD set for literally nothing if you're unsure of whether you'll like the sequels and avoid the color issues. I grabbed one on ebay still in the tin for $6 before getting the BD set.)

Unfortunately you still are stuck with the poor Returns transfer, the Fleischer cartoons aren't in HD and the newer masters have iffy color at times. (You won't notice if you're not nitpicky-mostly just some teal infusion in places.)

Originally Posted by Croweyes1121

Oh Jaws is, by FAR, the worst of the remix offenders.

1. ALL of the gunshots are altered.
2. The whale sound effect is changed.
3. Multiple foley effects are replaced throughout.
3. And the absolute worst revision I've ever seen in a remix: Brody's last line to the shark "smile, you son of a b*tch!" is censored. The new gunshot/explosion sound effect is so loud that you can't hear what he says like you can in the original mono track. The 7.1 attempted to fix this and did to some degree, but it's still not *nearly* as audible as it is in the mono.

Absolutely. Though the crown for worst remix ever for me goes to The Good The Bad and The Ugly, the Star Wars trilogy and the early Bond titles. Jaws on the 5.1 remix was painfully bad and I abhorred it when all TV airings switched over to using it. I grew up with the partially re-scored 1991 video version which had some different EQ and finally got to hear the original mono on the 30th anniversary DVD reissue. The new BD 7.1 isn't as revisionist but still is unnecessary. The 1995 CAV boxset Laserdisc is probably the best way to hear the original audio which is one of the best mono mixes ever done IMHO.

[captainsolo]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Right then, the audio. Now I don't usually do this for my write-ups as I very rarely fire up the ol' AVR (Denon X2200) to even bother listening in surround sound, I just don't enjoy it like I once did and my damaged hearing is testament to that. If anything I don't want to damage it further (just visiting the cinema two days in succession for First Man and then A Star is Born left my ears ringing for days afterwards) so I try to space out my uses of the AVR. But in this case, with STM's 4K disc reportedly having a 5.1 track newly derived from the 70mm mix, only surround sound would do.

The four main sources for comparison are the 5.1 remix as heard on both the SE and theatrical Blu-rays, the 2.0 original 35mm Dolby Stereo on the theatrical Blu-ray, and the 5.1 70mm and 7.1 Atmos 'core' on the 4K disc. For a bit of orientation I flicked back and forth in the 2.0 mix and it wasn't actually as bad as I remember it to be, it's quite low in fidelity but upmixes quite well with Dolby Surround. But when playing the 70mm DD 5.1 mix on the 4K, oh mai.

The thing that hits you about the 70mm mix is the directional dialogue panning across the front speakers, there's so much of it that it's almost a rarity when dialogue actually comes from the centre channel! A favourite moment is when Lex is in his 'library' and Otis pushes the ladder away, when Lex starts yelling "N, as in 'nincompoop!'" it comes from the front right channel and when the ladder slowly tracks back from right to left across screen Lex's dialogue tracks with it, ending up firmly ensconsed in the front left channel as he sits and talks about meteorites, it's a terrifically old-school effect. What's interesting is that the 2.0 theatrical mix retains some of this steerage, it's nowhere near as precise as the 70mm but there's definitely a sense of it there, whereas the SE remix and the 7.1 Atmos core lock the dialogue firmly into the centre throughout the entire scene, as they do throughout the majority of the movie.

Yes, the remixes add a very modern sense of constant ambience and a tightly-knit soundfield that both of these theatrical variants lack, and I've said recently that I didn't find the remix to be all the way sacrilegious, but now that I've heard the 70mm the remixes also seem more constrained at the same time without the directional dialogue. And while the 35mm 2.0 mix lacks for bass the 70mm 5.1 mix has some very nice moments of LFE, like when the dome opens up in the trial scene; there's something of a rumble with the 2.0 but the 70mm 5.1 really adds some heft to it. There are true split-surround effects in the 70mm also, like the shot of the two cars escaping from police at the docks that zoom past camera, one flies off into rear left and the other into rear right. As I said, nothing like the wrap-around ambience of the modern remixes but good moments nonetheless.

Would lossless have greatly benefitted the 70mm 5.1 mix? I'd like to think so but I can't recall a moment where it sounded overly harsh or reedy, and the music sounds better here in 640 kb/s DD 5.1 from 70mm than it does in lossless DTS-HD MA 2.0 for the 35mm mix. And lossless certainly wouldn't make it sound more cohesive in terms of the surround field, as it is what it is. But if you love that old-school directional dialogue then you're gonna be in heaven with this 70mm mix regardless.

THANK YOU!!! I'll have to check the old Laserdisc for the panning you mentioned. I remember some off hand so I'll check out the library scene you mentioned. Does this new track have the opening mono to stereo transition for the main titles?
I know I go on about the Dolby Stereo track not being the greatest but it's definitely serviceable and from the same master source as the others. It was '78 and most theaters hadn't switched over anyway or had done so without adding surround or rear speakers. That is why the main stereo spread became the most important in mixing and why mono continued to be kept in mind for years. I remember Ben Burtt talking in an interviews about how they had to mix Empire Strikes Back to ensure all the relevant information was in the stereo mains so that if the decoder or rears went out-or if there were no surrounds or center channel-that the audiences would be able to still follow the film. That's probably why they continued making the awesome custom mono tracks with little tweaks for both ESB and Raiders.

[maverick22]

Originally Posted by WJWS Channel 13:Amity

Cant believe best buy isnt carrying this in store.

Yesterday, one employee's explanation why it wasn't in stores Tuesday is because "their shipments normally come in Wednesdays." I told him but the release date for new movies is on Tuesdays typically - it's been that way for years. I then told him to check the date on the product page - it says 11/6. He then had a blank look on his face.

He insisted that I check back today (11/7) to see if it happened to show up in the store. I just said "thanks" and walked away

[KMR]

Originally Posted by 5x10

Young Clark’s nose piece doesn’t look as discolored as one previous versions

His nose definitely looked discolored in the 70mm print I saw in 1978. It was sort of bluish, like he'd been punched in the nose.

[ltb2.0]

Originally Posted by KMR

His nose definitely looked discolored in the 70mm print I saw in 1978. It was sort of bluish, like he'd been punched in the nose.

His nose always bothered me... it was so obviously fake. It distracted me at times.

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by WJWS Channel 13:Amity

Cant believe best buy isnt carrying this in store.

what? that is nuts

and holy cow, just checked and it's listed as SOLD OUT online???
I have to believe they will print more of these right?
that would nuts to just have one tiny limited little run

my local Target, which has barely any stock of anything after the remodel, had only one copy left on day 1 and it was only like 3PM, I didn't nab it, thought this would drop in price for Black Friday or something

edit: and it's now sold out at my local Target and sold out to limited stock (which means 1 copy, if lucky) at every single other Target within like 50 miles. I think they WAY underestimated the demand for this title. Totally sold out at Best Buy in under a week and more or less sold out at Target in physical stores in under a week.

[y2jman]

on phone and in chat few times yesterday best buy i have been promised that today this will be shipped despite status saying in processing<-how long i don't know maybe either since mon or tues and i will get this on Friday

since said when i preordered past sat night get it by Friday doing free shipping

i just hope it will will happen meh

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

even more ridiculous I see that half the Target stores in my region never even carried it, not even the flag ship store in the most populated area

maybe if they worried less about piracy and forcing obscene levels of obnoxious DRM on stuff (the day my two 'special' 4k blu-ray drives go, may be the day I quit buying movies) and focused more on getting stuff available and so that it will be noticed they'd sell more stuff

[TM2-Megatron]

It may just be me replication plant delays... Warners seems especially prone to them for some reason. I'm sure more stock will show up over the next few weeks.

[Jay Mammoth]

Originally Posted by WJWS Channel 13:Amity

Cant believe best buy isnt carrying this in store.

I cant believe target was carrying this in store. Checked Best Buy and Walmart 1st, nada. Then went to Target for Stranger Things and they had a few Superman.

[stigdu]

I have to say, I watched this a couple of nights ago and didn't notice any fake noses, bad mattes, dull colours, re-done sound effects or Kryptonian suits that weren't shiny enough (Sure, some of the flying effects were a bit iffy, but I put that down to what visual effects artists were capable of doing in the late 70s.)

I just sat back, and enjoyed 2-and-a-half hours of my favourite superhero film.

Don't some of you guys just switch off your brain and enjoy the film any more? It can't make movie-watching a particularly fun hobby if you're constantly looking for faults or attributing problems where there aren't any (or are so minor as to be insignificant)?

This is a great release and highly recommended!

[Matt89]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

Don't worry. I never saw 3 and 4 in their entirety until a year or two ago. We harp on about how bad they are but admittedly they're not the worst things in the world. III has 20-30 minutes of golden material with dreadful muck. I honestly can sit through IV easier despite the hideously poor budget. And there are additional scenes that help flesh out the narrative in ways.

The set is absolutely worth it for getting all of the bonus stuff. The UK set is region free and is generally far less expensive. I think I paid less than $20 for mine. (However do keep in mind most of the extras were made for the DVD anthology set and are in standard def. You can get that whole DVD set for literally nothing if you're unsure of whether you'll like the sequels and avoid the color issues. I grabbed one on ebay still in the tin for $6 before getting the BD set.)

Nice, I'm sorta looking forward to the B-movie quality Superman IV apparently has haha. My set arrived last night (after they couldn't find my mailbox on the first attempt and Amazon had to send a replacement) and I skimmed through the transfers. Honestly I think Superman (theatrical cut) actually looks quite good on blu-ray, even if it is from 2011. I thought it had some nice grain, and deserved more than the 3.5 this site gave it in their reviews. The theatrical cut got 4/5 but I actually think the transfer for part 1 actually looked a bit better. The Richard Donner Cut is a mess, but that was expected.

My UHD of Superman is supposed to arrive Friday so I'll check these out over the weekend. As good as I thought the first one looked, I want to start with the UHD (obviously), then the theatrical cut of Superman II. Wow there's so much in this set it's crazy. I know almost nothing about the series (aside from loving the first one when I saw it on TV when I was about eight) so it'll be interesting for sure.

Are the deleted scenes from the TV cut in the box set? Or would I have to get the Warner Archive release to get that? I'm kinda tempted to grab that too because that was technically the version I grew up watching, pacing issues and all.

~Matt

[dan10017]

Originally Posted by TM2-Megatron

It may just be me replication plant delays... Warners seems especially prone to them for some reason. I'm sure more stock will show up over the next few weeks.

I think Warner has done the same for 2001 Space Odyssey. I think the studios know that people in general will only buy the current hits. The last thing they want is oversupply (and not enough demand) as they don't want to lose money. So those "replication" delays from what's being talked is garbage.

Paramount has also done this for Mi1, 2 and 3. Less produced discs on those 3 than Protocol, Rogue Nation and Fallout.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

THANK YOU!!! I'll have to check the old Laserdisc for the panning you mentioned. I remember some off hand so I'll check out the library scene you mentioned. Does this new track have the opening mono to stereo transition for the main titles?
I know I go on about the Dolby Stereo track not being the greatest but it's definitely serviceable and from the same master source as the others. It was '78 and most theaters hadn't switched over anyway or had done so without adding surround or rear speakers. That is why the main stereo spread became the most important in mixing and why mono continued to be kept in mind for years. I remember Ben Burtt talking in an interviews about how they had to mix Empire Strikes Back to ensure all the relevant information was in the stereo mains so that if the decoder or rears went out-or if there were no surrounds or center channel-that the audiences would be able to still follow the film. That's probably why they continued making the awesome custom mono tracks with little tweaks for both ESB and Raiders.

From what I could tell, yes: the opening narration and music were coming from the centre channel and then when the titles started the music expands into the fronts.

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

THANK YOU!!! I'll have to check the old Laserdisc for the panning you mentioned. I remember some off hand so I'll check out the library scene you mentioned. Does this new track have the opening mono to stereo transition for the main titles?
I know I go on about the Dolby Stereo track not being the greatest but it's definitely serviceable and from the same master source as the others. It was '78 and most theaters hadn't switched over anyway or had done so without adding surround or rear speakers. That is why the main stereo spread became the most important in mixing and why mono continued to be kept in mind for years. I remember Ben Burtt talking in an interviews about how they had to mix Empire Strikes Back to ensure all the relevant information was in the stereo mains so that if the decoder or rears went out-or if there were no surrounds or center channel-that the audiences would be able to still follow the film. That's probably why they continued making the awesome custom mono tracks with little tweaks for both ESB and Raiders.

The panning was always amazing in the original mixes

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

The panning was always amazing in the original mixes

I don't know if I mentioned this but it's not just the dialogue that pans either, I know you didn't say it was but your post reminded me of something. When Pa Kent is changing the truck tyre after baby Kal lands, he takes it off and lets it roll away to screen right, on the 70mm mix the tyre is clearly heard trundling into the right speaker - but on the modern remix (5.1 or core 7.1, doesn't matter which) that effect is locked into the centre channel.

Them putting all the dialogue into the centre when remixing is one thing, but when did having directional sound effects become an aural crime? It's like they're so concerned about the surround sound (with even MORE speakers in Atmos) that they forget that the fronts are there, even now when I watch x modern movie and I hear dialogue or specific effects come from right or left it takes me a little by surprise because mixes are so surround-centric these days.

That's what I mean about the modern Supes remixes having more of a contemporary wrap-around feel to the sound field, which is fine if people like that sort of thing, but at the same time they also lose the expansive quality that the original had. The music also tends to gets a bit lost under the slew of modern sound effects that have been added in, it's NOT that it's suddenly inaudible in the remixed tracks (lest I be accused of more hyperbole) but in certain moments the music is definitely more pronounced in the 70mm mix.

[Stevie81]

The main reason I'd get this is to have the finest opening credits in MOVIE HISTORY in glorious 4K.

Tell me the whooshes are the best they've ever been?

[KcMsterpce]

Originally Posted by Stevie81

Tell me the whooshes are the best they've ever been?

One can only woosh.
Woosh in one hand, that kinda thing.

[DR Herbert West]

Originally Posted by Matt89

Are the deleted scenes from the TV cut in the box set? Or would I have to get the Warner Archive release to get that?

A few of them are, but most are exclusive to the TV cut.