The Matrix 4K UHD (1999)

[chip75]

Originally Posted by LoSouL

What are the pros/cons of mastering at different tiers of nits for us as consumers, on a home theater level, as well as for the companies producing them? I want to understand.

Generally you want each encode to make the most of each formats' abilities, whether it's SD, HD, UHD, HDR10+ or Dolby Vision. So each one needs time and careful consideration (as they have different standards to meet). If anything is just set to autopilot one formats' presentation is going to suffer over the one that takes precedence. I don't think you can grade for 4,000 or 1,000 nits and just twist a knob for the SDR conversion. It needs to be a careful balancing act.

From the screen-shots The Matrix on Blu-ray almost looks like a SDR mix on autopilot, which isn't something that should be celebrated (which is a shame as it's great we've had a new BD). I don't think the highlights should have been blown-out quite as much, I think Terminator 2 had similar issues (along with a few others!).

[SynViks]

It mostly depends upon what grading displays the colorist is working with, and even then, they can choose to grade for what they see (for example, up to 1k nits, with anything above that being clipped), whilst leaving information above what their display can produce intact (which results in a grade made on a 1K nit display, but with information going up to 10k nits in some cases).

I do know that if you're doing a Dolby Vision grade you are required to use a Dolby approved display, which usually means a Dolby Pulsar monitor which can be used for 4K nit grades.

[dcx4610]

I love the Matrix but $32 is just too much even if it's a great release. When Jurassic Park is $50 for 4 movies, come on Warner Bros.

I expect the price to drop quickly and is just there to make a quick buck off the die hards and it will be $19.99 shortly after.

[Geoff D]

The Matrix evolutions:



Here are some photos of a screen, COMPLETELY non-scientific and soooooo not to be used for forensic analysis but **** it, you're getting them anyway:

1999 R1 DVD:



2008 Blu-ray:



2018 Blu-ray:



2018 UHD Blu-ray:

[Heapashifter]

Originally Posted by dcx4610

I love the Matrix but $32 is just too much even if it's a great release. When Jurassic Park is $50 for 4 movies, come on Warner Bros.

I expect the price to drop quickly and is just there to make a quick buck off the die hards and it will be $19.99 shortly after.

I agree. I'm waiting too. I got Saving Private Ryan and Die Hard both for $20. This doesn't need to be $12 more.

[DJJez]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Warners, take a bow. This looks FANTASTIC. And given all the chidings that some people have handed out recently regarding our quest for the holy Sony grain, it's more than a little ironic that the grain on this UHD is palpably intense, more so than on any Warners UHD catalogue do-over I've yet seen. Terrific detail but, as I've said repeatedly lately, it naturally takes a hit whenever an optical like a dissolve or a fade is cut in, and several shots of Morpheus where they originally digitally replaced the reflections in his sunglasses look very soft too, along with a few other shots here and there. But by and large it's stunning.

As for the colour the Matrix is still VERY green, make no mistake, it's just not the suffocating tone of the previous 2003 revision that takes skin tones along with it. This grading has been delivered with FAR more nuance and something I like about it is that it still has a bit of unpredictability, i.e. colour and density doesn't track exactly the same from cut to cut in any given scene which gives it more of a photochemical feeling rather than a clinical digital grade that's been painstakingly lined up for maximum consistency. Blacks might look deep to the point of crush in one shot only to look a fair bit lighter in the next, but it's all good fun.

HDR is solid, I don't feel qualified in delivering a definitive "review" verdict because this disc has been mastered with Dolby Vision and, in an unusual move from Warners, the HDR10 base layer has not been mastered to 4000 max/0.005 min but the 1000/0.0002 that we've seen on Disney and Paramount discs recently (which would indicate a shift to those same mastering packages, whatever they may be). So I'm literally not getting the whole picture in HDR10 but the HDR is still very pleasing, with a hefty amount of pop to things like the hover pads of the Neb or the electro-shock thingy that Cypher uses to kill Dozer. And when we first enter the Construct that sucker is BRIGHT. I'm not sure that this HDR10 pass is revealing a great deal of highlight information over the previous versions - what andreas would likely call "fake" HDR - but then whatever extra range could be on there might've been reserved for the DV layer.

That said, the highlights are ridiculously blown out on the new SDR Blu-ray. The grain looks noisier and dupier too, with softer detail and the colour is more one-note. In a funny way the BD is almost like looking at a print at times (not THE original prints, but a print) whereas the UHD is its own animal. If this is what having a Dolby derived SDR version looks like then alls I can say is that someone was asleep at the wheel.

So, yeah. The movie itself is still a magnificent piece of work, expertly balancing the philosophy with the action (unlike its stodgy successors) and while the bullet time stuff does have an undeniable cheese factor to it, it was still mucho gimmicky back then as the REAL star of the show is the other action scenes. Watching Neo and Morpheus go kung fu fighting still dazzles me to this day because you just don't get that kind of investment in fight scenes in Hollywood action movies any more, and Morph vs Smith in the bathroom is AWESOME because it's such a brutal, confined little skirmish. And when Neo wrangles the helicopter on the roof to rescue Trinity I got chills as it's such an expertly orchestrated piece of action mayhem. Just...wow. When the movie finished I felt like Steve Coppell after Ian Wright scored in the cup final against Utd in 1990. Skip to 2:25.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY6Z...utu.be&t=2m25s

Oh, funny anecdote: I actually dusted off my AVR and watched this in surround, it wasn't until the kung fu training scene that I realised my subwoofer wasn't on, I'd flipped the power switch to on but the plug at the wall had been dislodged so it wasn't actually on for almost the first hour of the movie and I didn't notice

how do you know the DV is mastered to 4000 nits, it doesnt say in the info on the oppo?

[pawel86ck]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The Matrix evolutions:

Here are some photos of a screen, COMPLETELY non-scientific and soooooo not to be used for forensic analysis but **** it, you're getting them anyway:

UHD looks even better than I was expecting . I know photos arnt accurate, but your comparison suggest huge difference even compared with remastered BD! Thanks for your photos Geoff D

[SplitScreen]

Dolby Vision rocks!! This just blew me away. Fantastic presentation. Detail was amazing. Stunning disc. No one should hesitate getting this.

[UpsetSmiley]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The Matrix evolutions:



Here are some photos of a screen, COMPLETELY non-scientific and soooooo not to be used for forensic analysis but **** it, you're getting them anyway:

[Show spoiler]1999 R1 DVD:



2008 Blu-ray:



2018 Blu-ray:



2018 UHD Blu-ray:

Is it wrong that I quite like the grain (look at the gun) on the DVD? Not too shabby.

[stlcards]

I don't have a 4K setup but do buy some discs for the future. Since the Blu-ray has problems, I will wait for the 4K price to go down.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by DJJez

how do you know the DV is mastered to 4000 nits, it doesnt say in the info on the oppo?

If not playing back in DV then the OPPO doesn't show any of the DV information, just the HDR10 layer info, but even when it's playing DV all it says in the information screen is "Dolby Vision 12-bit" and doesn't provide any more specifics. It's my understanding however that these DV masters are at 4000 nits pretty much by default. They're usually graded on the 4000-nit Pulsar, with the Dolby Maui at 2000 and Sony's BVM-X300 at 1000 nits, they're also DV-certified mastering monitors for which they can employ temporary tone mapping to visualise the extended highlight information, ditto for >4000-nit material on the Pulsar.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by UpsetSmiley

[/SPOILER]

Is it wrong that I quite like the grain (look at the gun) on the DVD? Not too shabby.

That ain't grain bruv, it's the blocky-assed old MPEG-2 encode being turned to mush by the camera. Do. Not. Take. Them. As. Gospel. Please. It's not even worth embiggening them, just looking at the thumbnails should be enough. If you want grain then the UHD has it in abundance.

Something that strikes me though is how "photochemical" the UHD looks in terms of its colour, the flat green murk of the previous HD transfer feels like an entirely digital thing, this blanket colour laid onto the image, whereas the more cyan look to the green on the UHD seems to have more of an organic response. Hard to explain. As for the new Blu-ray, I dunno what the heck that's trying to look like. Replicating the effects of glaucoma, maybe?

[imsounoriginal]

Gonna pop the UHD into my digibook like I did for Unforgiven, best disc and best packaging all in one. Easy peasy. Can't wait to take a look at this.

[OutOfBoose]

New BD in that scene is ****ed.

[Geoff D]

Most of the exterior daylight scenes look like that on the new Blu, all blown out to hell.

[BRASSTAX]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Most of the exterior daylight scenes look like that on the new Blu, all blown out to hell.

hey what are your overall thoughts on the 4k disc?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by BRASSTAX

hey what are your overall thoughts on the 4k disc?

I fookin' loved it. You?

[RodChester]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The Matrix evolutions:



Here are some photos of a screen, COMPLETELY non-scientific and soooooo not to be used for forensic analysis but **** it, you're getting them anyway:

[Show spoiler]1999 R1 DVD:



2008 Blu-ray:



2018 Blu-ray:



2018 UHD Blu-ray:

Oh man that UHD shot looks awesome. I am so anxious to get this disc. Luckily, it looks like Target is shipping my copy today. Hopefully it will be here by Wednesday.

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That ain't grain bruv, it's the blocky-assed old MPEG-2 encode being turned to mush by the camera. Do. Not. Take. Them. As. Gospel. Please. It's not even worth embiggening them, just looking at the thumbnails should be enough. If you want grain then the UHD has it in abundance.

Something that strikes me though is how "photochemical" the UHD looks in terms of its colour, the flat green murk of the previous HD transfer feels like an entirely digital thing, this blanket colour laid onto the image, whereas the more cyan look to the green on the UHD seems to have more of an organic response. Hard to explain. As for the new Blu-ray, I dunno what the heck that's trying to look like. Replicating the effects of glaucoma, maybe?

You used the word “photochemical” and that’s exactly the right word to describe the look. It’s the same word I was looking for when looking at the DARK KNIGHT TRILOGY 4K’s....

[LoSouL]

The UHD almost looks like all three of the other shots put together.