The Sony BDP-S300/301 Review Thread

[JasonR]

HDMI set to PCM is TrueHD on TrueHD soundtracks.

[krazeyeyez]

Originally Posted by nycomet

By the way everyone, page 48 of the manual for the BDP-S300 actually states that the unit can decode 5.1 Dolby TrueHD though HDMI via PCM auto setting. If you use auto, the player will only send 5.1 Dolby Digital.
This feature is poorly advertised in the manual. It is not a hidden feature.

to me that doesn't say it decodes truehd to lossless pcm, it just says it can decode the dolby truehd, which it does do out of the box to the core dolby digital 5.1
the firmware update supposedly allows the player to "unzip" the truehd, and just to emphasize paid says this feature could also be removed in the future.

[JasonR]

Originally Posted by krazeyeyez

to me that doesn't say it decodes truehd to lossless pcm, it just says it can decode the dolby truehd, which it does do out of the box to the core dolby digital 5.1
the firmware update supposedly allows the player to "unzip" the truehd, and just to emphasize paid says this feature could also be removed in the future.

The S1 and S300 updates are pretty much the same, I don't see them removing it from the S300 unless they do it to the S1. It could happen, but highly unlikely. Also, the diagram is pretty clear. It says Dolby TrueHD over HDMI = 5.1 LPCM?? If it was core, it would just say Dolby Digital.

[yex94]

Originally Posted by JasonR

How did we all miss it?!?!?!?

Let me start out by saying that I do totally believe the s300 decodes TrueHD and passes the decoded PCM stream over HDMI when the setting is PCM.

However, I think the manual reference is a 'red herring'. Because of the way TrueHD is decoded - with a DD core plus more advanced extensions - the manual could have been written this exact same way and not decode TrueHD. If you had a player that couldnt handle THD then it would read the core part and decode that as 5.1 sound without any of the extensions. If it truly decoded TrueHD you would expect the manual reading to show 7.1 LPCM as output (similar to DD+ listed above it) since THD supports 7.1 channels. Therefore, I think the manual is written assuming the player did not decode the advanced extensions. But, as said earlier, I do think the player is decoding THD. It would be interesting if someone has a 7.1 setup to test whether you get 5.1 or 7.1 channels on the THD track (you need to check that the track actually has 7.1 channels first though).

As far as why Sony wouldnt announce it, I think that the similarity in hardware for the S1 and the S300 just made it easier and cheaper for them to have 1 set of firmware updates. And, as long as they never advertise the feature, it wont cannibalize sales of the s500 if the codec is decoded.

[yex94]

Originally Posted by JasonR

The S1 and S300 updates are pretty much the same, I don't see them removing it from the S300 unless they do it to the S1. It could happen, but highly unlikely. Also, the diagram is pretty clear. It says Dolby TrueHD over HDMI = 5.1 LPCM?? If it was core, it would just say Dolby Digital.

That is not quite right. With the setting to PCM, all of the signals are going to be output are PCM - either 2 channel, 2.1, 5.1 or 7.1 - no matter what codec you start with. So with HDMI Audio set to PCM it will decode EVERYTHING internally and ONLY pass PCM to the AVR. But you are right that the manual could be read to conclude that it will read the core DD part of the TrueHD encode and just pass that as a 5.1 signal.

[JasonR]

Originally Posted by yex94

That is not quite right. With the setting to PCM, all of the signals are going to be output are PCM - either 2 channel, 2.1, 5.1 or 7.1 - no matter what codec you start with. So with HDMI Audio set to PCM it will decode EVERYTHING internally and ONLY pass PCM to the AVR. But you are right that the manual could be read to conclude that it will read the core DD part of the TrueHD encode and just pass that as a 5.1 signal.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like it was passing the LPCM to the receiver to be decoded if that is the way it sounded.

[Sailor-man]

Can I assume with audio HDMI set to PCM, the BDP-S300 will decode DD5.1, DTS, or TrueHD and send it over HDMI to the receiver decoded.

I thought there was an issue with the HDMI out on the BDP-S300 being only HDMI 1.1 vs. 1.3 needed for TrueHD.

Still confused.

[JasonR]

Your assumption is right HDMI set to PCM will decode Dolby TrueHD to the receiver. I am not sure if I am right, but I "think" it only has to be 1.3 to bitstream.

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by blurayisking

Further to my previous message.

I just finished comparing the sound of a Dolby TrueHD via 5.1 analog versus the digital coax bitstream.

I could not hear any difference so I have to conclude that the only way the BDP-S300 decodes Dolby TrueHD is via HDMI set for PCM as per Paidgeek's response.

Case closed.

Is it really? Well, I did a similar though unplanned test with a movie that Dvorah and I watched last night, The Valley of Elah. It started with the movie and bypassed the menu options. Later Dvorah asked me to pause the movie so she could use the bathroom. After pausing it I was curious as to which audio track was playing. I pressed the Audio button on the remote and it displayed DD English (first audio track). I then selected the next one on the list. That one was DD THD. A while later, Dvorah asked me what I had done to the sound while she was gone. She said the movie sounded so different and much better. I agreed with her. In fact in the dialogue I heard subtle nuances in the actors voices that weren't there before. Overall it sounded more realistic and fuller.

My AVR doesn't have HDMI inputs, and so I have it hooked up to my BDP-S301 through the 5.1 analog outputs. Dvorah didn't know she was a ginnea pig, and it wasn't just a plecibo effect for me. The BDP-S300/1 must be decoding DD THD and converting the LPCM to analog.

I have the movie The Fifth Element (Remastered). I have always selected LPCM 5.1 and ignored the DD THD track. So this this morning after last night's experience, I decided to experiment with both tracks by switching back and forth from LPCM 5.1 and DD THD. I couldn't tell any difference between the two lossless tracks. That seems pretty convincing to me that the BDP-S301 decodes DD THD and then converts the LPCM 5.1 to analog 5.1.

[nycomet]

Originally Posted by rwojtalewicz

Is it really? Well, I did a similar though unplanned test with a movie that Dvorah and I watched last night, The Valley of Elah. It started with the movie and bypassed the menu options. Later Dvorah asked me to pause the movie so she could use the bathroom. After pausing it I was curious as to which audio track was playing. I pressed the Audio button on the remote and it displayed DD English (first audio track). I then selected the next one on the list. That one was DD THD. A while later, Dvorah asked me what I had done to the sound while she was gone. She said the movie sounded so different and much better. I agreed with her. In fact in the dialogue I heard subtle nuances in the actors voices that weren't there before. Overall it sounded more realistic and fuller.

My AVR doesn't have HDMI inputs, and so I have it hooked up to my BDP-S301 through the 5.1 analog outputs. Dvorah didn't know she was a ginnea pig, and it wasn't just a plecibo effect for me. The BDP-S300/1 must be decoding DD THD and converting the LPCM to analog.

I have the movie The Fifth Element (Remastered). I have always selected LPCM 5.1 and ignored the DD THD track. So this this morning after last night's experience, I decided to experiment with both tracks by switching back and forth from LPCM 5.1 and DD THD. I couldn't tell any difference between the two lossless tracks. That seems pretty convincing to me that the BDP-S301 decodes DD THD and then converts the LPCM 5.1 to analog 5.1.

Your tests sound very convincing. I notice that Dolby TrueHD audio tracks (pumped through the BDP-S300 into my Sony 710 AVR via HDMI) sounds more "clean" to me than the regular Dolby Digital 5.1 audio tracks. However, DD 5.1 is louder, thus I have to increase the volume when Dolby TrueHD is playing. My AVR displays "PCM 48" now that the BDP-S300 is set to output audio as PCM. One other thing I detected is that regular DD 5.1 sound levels are much increased on the rear L and R surround speakers. TrueHD comes through with much less volume on the rears. It's almost as if the TrueHD audio track is better calibrated (I know that doesn't make sense) because the sound seems better balanced between all 5.1 speakers. Of course, I can still modify the levels via the AVR if I want to.

It surprises me how much difference there is between the sound of the audio tracks - DTHD verse DD5.1 - especially since the BDP-S300 is doing all of the decoding, not matter which audio track is selected (due to PCM setting). The AVR isn't doing any decoding at all since the signal coming into it is PCM 48.

.

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by nycomet

You tests sound very convincing. I notice that Dolby TrueHD audio tracks (pumped through the BDP-S300 into my Sony 710 AVR via HDMI) sounds more "clean" to me than the regular Dolby Digital 5.1 audio tracks. However, DD 5.1 is louder, thus I have to increase the volume when Dolby TrueHD is playing. My AVR displays "PCM 48" now that the BDP-S300 is set to output audio as PCM. One other thing I detected is that regular DD 5.1 sound levels are much increased on the rear L and R surround speakers. TrueHD comes through with much less volume on the rears. It's almost as if the TrueHD audio track is better calibrated (I know that doesn't make sense) because the sound seems better balanced between all 5.1 speakers. Of course, I can still modify the levels via the AVR if I want to.

It surprises me how much difference there is between the sound of the audio tracks - DTHD verse DD5.1 - especially since the BDP-S300 is doing all of the decoding, not matter which audio track is selected (due to PCM setting). The AVR isn't doing any decoding at all since the signal coming into it is PCM 48.

.

After reading your post, I watched In the Valley of Ellah again, this time switching between the 1st track, DD English, and the 2nd, DD-THD English. There was no difference in the dialogue sound level between the two judging by ear. I couldn't tell a difference in surround channels sound level either during the disco/bar scene since I figured that one should be heavy with surround sound. What I did hear was a slight more boominess from the kick drum in the DD track compared to the tighter and cleaner kick drum sound in the DD THD track. I didn't find any need to compensate for the volume since I didn't find any detectable difference in the volume levels.

Next I tried another connection that I never use, the coaxial output of the BDP-301 to my AVR. Yes there was a difference in the sound level comparing the DD or DD-THD tracks through analog outputs compared to the DD output as bitstream. However, instead of hearing an increase in sound level, the bitstream going to my AVR was being output at a lower sound level and I had to turn up the volume control when switching from multichannel in (5.1 analog) to the coaxial in (bitstream) on my AVR. One thing is for certain, the DD-THD sound dramatically better than the bitstream (and I compensated for the volume level after selecting bitstream). Even the DD track (multichannel in, analog 5.1) had a slightly better sound quality than the DD track (coaxial in) but I still had to increase the volume level to compensate after selecting coaxial in.

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by krazeyeyez

jason! and all other 300 owners.
he also commented that it was an unadvertised feature and MAY be removed with future updates.

If Sony does this, then it is I will never buy another product from them!

FW 3.80 is the last one I'll download for awhile until I hear that future FW doesn't remove DD TrueHD

[djOS]

I've retested with 300 instead of T5E and I am now convinced that the s300 DOES decode TrueHD to LPCM - the LPCM track still sounds better imo but there is a noticable AQ difference between the DD5.1 core and TrueHD decoded to PCM.

[nycomet]

Originally Posted by djOS

I've retested with 300 instead of T5E and I am now convinced that the s300 DOES decode TrueHD to LPCM - the LPCM track still sounds better imo but there is a noticable AQ difference between the DD5.1 core and TrueHD decoded to PCM.

That is good to hear. Please excuse my ignorance, but what is T5E?

[djOS]

Originally Posted by nycomet

That is good to hear. Please excuse my ignorance, but what is T5E?

The 5th Element!

[HRC]

I'm seriously considering purchasing a S300. I may wait it out another year for newer stuff and prices to drop though. I think the PS3 can manage until then. I do want a dedicated player though.

[Drewski65]

Hi all,

I just upgraded my BDP-S300 Blue Ray Player to firmware version 3.80 and I have tried what PaidGeek has said about switching the HDMI audio to PCM to get the Dolby True HD audio out of the player.

I also own a Sony STR-DA5300ES Receiver which is capable of playing the Dolby True HD signal and I hate to say it, but the Receiver is NOT playing the Dolby True HD signal (ie, the display doesn't indicate Dolby True HD, just Dolby Surround).

Now maybe I have done something wrong, but I would love to hear from anyone who has the same setup as mine if they have successfully had their receiver display the Dolby True HD logos.

[JasonR]

Originally Posted by Drewski65

Hi all,

I just upgraded my BDP-S300 Blue Ray Player to firmware version 3.80 and I have tried what PaidGeek has said about switching the HDMI audio to PCM to get the Dolby True HD audio out of the player.

I also own a Sony STR-DA5300ES Receiver which is capable of playing the Dolby True HD signal and I hate to say it, but the Receiver is NOT playing the Dolby True HD signal (ie, the display doesn't indicate Dolby True HD, just Dolby Surround).

Now maybe I have done something wrong, but I would love to hear from anyone who has the same setup as mine if they have successfully had their receiver display the Dolby True HD logos.

The receiver WILL NOT display it because it is being decoded by the player. It should display PCM. If it were bitstreaming the data then it would display TrueHD.

[yex94]

Originally Posted by Drewski65

Hi all,

I just upgraded my BDP-S300 Blue Ray Player to firmware version 3.80 and I have tried what PaidGeek has said about switching the HDMI audio to PCM to get the Dolby True HD audio out of the player.

I also own a Sony STR-DA5300ES Receiver which is capable of playing the Dolby True HD signal and I hate to say it, but the Receiver is NOT playing the Dolby True HD signal (ie, the display doesn't indicate Dolby True HD, just Dolby Surround).

Now maybe I have done something wrong, but I would love to hear from anyone who has the same setup as mine if they have successfully had their receiver display the Dolby True HD logos.

your AVR will not show TrueHD playing since the s300 is doing the decoding. Your player is getting a LPCM decode of the TrueHD track and will light up the same way as any PCM track.

[rox addict]

I just installed 3.8 firmware to my BDP-300 and these are the results:
1. It took 45 seconds for my player to show NO DISC ( thats 45 seconds less than the usual 90 seconds it use to take.
2. I put in " We own the Night," and it took 35 seconds to load...I was watching the movie in under two minutes.
3. The once delays I would get when pushing pause and play....etc.... they are gone. It stops and pauses and fwds just like any other DVD player I have ever owned.

Now if this continues then I would only be let down with the lack of a True HD decoder and a version 1.3 player but I am hearing this player will do that ( I need to keep reading on this forum.)

Now I havent tried any other movies because I want to watch this one right now....lol.... but I will post my results when I do.... Thanks