Dawn of the Dead (1978) - OUT OF PRINT

[Monterey Jack]

Christ's sake, can we move this "what constitutes a classic" shit into its own thread, please?!

[monwobbbo]

Originally Posted by The Batman Professor

To you authorities who think you can define what is and is not a ”classic” to the rest of us:

Please hold up your hand if you possess the terminal degree in either studio art, film studies, or art history. Also if you are published in any of those fields, raise your other hand.

I have both my hands up and I can tell you, everything is subjective, with this “classification of merit” business being good for a laugh. DAWN OF THE DEAD is a bonafide classic to me, as is THE THING. I love CITIZEN KANE but wouldn’t wipe my rear with MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS. It’s all subjective and your opinion is just as valid as mine. The only reason I possess those credentials is so I can act like a big shot in the classroom.

imn.

Well just out of curiosity how do you define a classic in your classroom? You have the degree that the rest of us peasants don't so inform us.
��
I can see why Citizen Kane is considered a classic despite not being my thing. Never seen the other movie.

[Mister_Kidd]

Originally Posted by Monterey Jack

Christ's sake, can we move this "what constitutes a classic" shit into its own thread, please?!

Oof, not classic. SHAME!!!

[The Batman Professor]

You’re not a “peasant” and that’s what I’m trying to say. We are all film buffs here and should respect each other’s opinions even if we don’t agree.

That’s why I deleted the original post - it wasn’t directed at those who revere DAWN OF THE DEAD, it wasdirected at the folks who would demean those that do. I knew it would be misconstrued, so I axed it.

Ditko Spider-Man is classic in my classroom.

[The Batman Professor]

Originally Posted by monwobbbo

Well just out of curiosity how do you define a classic in your classroom?

From my viewpoint, a classic is something that not only stands the test of time as a piece of art, but actually influences other works of art that come after.

DAWN OF THE DEAD completely satisfies that definition. Just look at how it’s influence is still being felt today, with the flood of zombie films and series being produced.

[Caseyscott]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Lol, just scroll back over the last few pages. Some people call this film a classic but not that one. It’s all opinion.
Where is this “classification of merit” founded? What governing body declares it?
Nobody does. Lol.
Please show me where art labeled as “classic” is objective. Again, I will wait. Link me to some site that has the oversight to make such labels and then show me the complete 100% of the population that comply. You can’t, because it doesn’t exist.
Saying “it’s widely acknowledged” does not make take it out of the realm of opinion. It’s just what a bunch of people think. It’s subjective.
Or we can just agree to disagree.

An individual using a term loosely or incorrectly does not change the meaning. “What a bunch of people think” is the beginning of an empirical analysis of merit, that’s the point. You can’t have an opinion on whether something is classic or not based on your own assessment of value, it by definition is not applicable to individual determination. You don’t need a link, that’s the meaning of the word. It exceeds subjectivity on the basis of objective determination. You’re asking for an entirety wrong set of evidence. You don’t have to step an inch away from the term itself, because it’s not judging merit on the basis of subjective criteria it’s classifying the rate at which subjective criteria has been applied to the subject.

[Caseyscott]

Originally Posted by The Batman Professor

From my viewpoint, a classic is something that not only stands the test of time as a piece of art, but actually influences other works of art that come after.

DAWN OF THE DEAD completely satisfies that definition. Just look at how it’s influence is still being felt today, with the flood of zombie films and series being produced.

You just stated my entire position far more efficiently than my bloated rambling ever could. You’ve eliminated all subjective criteria and place very specific objective standards that must be achieved by the work in question. That is quite literally a classification of merit.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Caseyscott

An individual using a term loosely or incorrectly does not change the meaning. “What a bunch of people think” is the beginning of an empirical analysis of merit, that’s the point. You can’t have an opinion on whether something is classic or not based on your own assessment of value, it by definition is not applicable to individual determination. You don’t need a link, that’s the meaning of the word. It exceeds subjectivity on the basis of objective determination. You’re asking for an entirety wrong set of evidence. You don’t have to step an inch away from the term itself, because it’s not judging merit on the basis of subjective criteria it’s classifying the rate at which subjective criteria has been applied to the subject.

Yeah we are spinning tires here. Citation needed.
We agree to disagree.

[Caseyscott]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Yeah we are spinning tires here. Citation needed.
We agree to disagree.

Fair enough, I appreciate the civil discourse.

[agenda]

Originally Posted by Monterey Jack

Christ's sake, can we move this "what constitutes a classic" shit into its own thread, please?!

Hahaha! This.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Caseyscott

Fair enough, I appreciate the civil discourse.

Classic! IMO.

[monwobbbo]

Originally Posted by The Batman Professor

You’re not a “peasant” and that’s what I’m trying to say. We are all film buffs here and should respect each other’s opinions even if we don’t agree.

That’s why I deleted the original post - it wasn’t directed at those who revere DAWN OF THE DEAD, it wasdirected at the folks who would demean those that do. I knew it would be misconstrued, so I axed it.

Ditko Spider-Man is classic in my classroom.

Ditko Spider-man is classic everywhere ( Romita in most). Just kidding on the peasant thing but as thing but as soon as I hear degree and published I have to be a smart ass. Agree with your definition. DOTD certainly qualifies. It's a shame that many here don't seem to get that a film can be a "classic" even if they don't personally like it.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by monwobbbo

Ditko Spider-man is classic everywhere ( Romita in most). Just kidding on the peasant thing but as thing but as soon as I hear degree and published I have to be a smart ass. Agree with your definition. DOTD certainly qualifies. It's a shame that many here don't seem to get that a film can be a "classic" even if they don't personally like it.

Well...I’m sure there are a bunch of folks that think the Twilight films are classics. Do you? If not why?
This is why I go with the whole opinion thingie. “Classic”, much like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
Oddly enough, I’d wager a lot of those Twilight fans probably wouldn’t label DotD a “classic”. Which is their right.

[Jay H.]

I've never cared for the word "classic". I like what I like. I watch what interests me. "Classic" status doesn't influence me. Opinions are all contradiction anyway.

I really don't like it when people say "instant classic". Ludicrous.

[Richard--W]

Originally Posted by The Batman Professor

From my viewpoint, a classic is something that not only stands the test of time as a piece of art, but actually influences other works of art that come after.

DAWN OF THE DEAD completely satisfies that definition. Just look at how it’s influence is still being felt today, with the flood of zombie films and series being produced.

Agreed. That's my definition as well. So does the original NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD
meet that definition. Of course the filmmaking and storytelling have to be stellar. And
in both films, it is.

[monwobbbo]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Well...I’m sure there are a bunch of folks that think the Twilight films are classics. Do you? If not why?
This is why I go with the whole opinion thingie. “Classic”, much like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
Oddly enough, I’d wager a lot of those Twilight fans probably wouldn’t label DotD a “classic”. Which is their right.

I hate the Twilight films with a passion . Nothing classic about them. Cult perhaps. Wife loves them. I kind of think that a classic has to go beyond its core audience in terms of appeal. Twilight films don't. That audience has aged and left those films behind.

[The Batman Professor]

Originally Posted by Richard--W

Agreed. That's my definition as well. So does the original NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD
meet that definition. Of course the filmmaking and storytelling have to be stellar. And
in both films, it is.

Absolutely, but it’s interesting that the sequel had the longer "coattails" culturally. I think we would still be discussing NOTLD today if Romero had never made another film, but DAWN has inspired an entire catalog of films, even to the point of keeping the Italian film industry alive during the 1980’s.

[The Batman Professor]

Here’s another point:

You can recognize a film’s status as a classic, but dislike the piece as a matter of personal taste. There are films that are celebrated almost universally that I personally dislike (FARGO) and in some instances, actively despise (SHIN GODZILLA)

[kidglov3s]

There are no classic movies... Ancient Greece and Rome didn't even have cinema yet duh.

[monwobbbo]

Originally Posted by The Batman Professor

Here’s another point:

You can recognize a film’s status as a classic, but dislike the piece as a matter of personal taste. There are films that are celebrated almost universally that I personally dislike (FARGO) and in some instances, actively despise (SHIN GODZILLA)

Sorry but SHIN GODZILLA isn't a classic. It tends to divide fans more than anything. I kind of doubt it has much appeal outside of Godzilla fans.