Blu-ray CD - the future of High Resolution music?

[BluSmoke]

I'm sure someone at the BDA have considered this: There needs to be a true successor option to CDs. SACD and DVD-A are just dumb. It's so rare to own a player, even for a music lover. I love audio and have nearly 200 CDs. I don't own a DVD-A and didn't own an SACD player until my 60gb PS3. I still don't have an SACD.

With Blu-ray as the sucessor to DVDs and machines in millions (and millions to come), I think it would be great if the BDA decided to release the 8cm discs as the high definition replacements for CDs. It has plenty of space, it stands out because of its size and best of all - can be played in all Blu-ray players.

Sony music can try it maybe later this year with its big artists by releasing High resolution discs. For example, a Michael Jackson Thriller in 5.1 or 7.1 mix.

Does anyone have a chart of Blu-ray's audio limitations? Is it 96k24bit max?

[xtop]

cool idea, could even make for smaller portables. can't say i see it happening tho

[Kratos3]

I would love it! However, with iPods being so popular, and portability being the trend, I really don't see this happening. High-res audio is kind of a niche thing. SACD and DVD-A were very well reviewed and received by critics, but the general public could have cared less(I tried selling SACD players at Best Buy when they first came out...no one cared). As I said, I would love for this to happen, but I just don't see it catching on.

[Bluray_ne1]

Originally Posted by Kratos3

I would love it! However, with iPods being so popular, and portability being the trend, I really don't see this happening. High-res audio is kind of a niche thing... As I said, I would love for this to happen, but I just don't see it catching on.

I tend to agree, music downloads, rather than video, is where things are headed. I just want to see downloadable multi-channel surround sound music (like SACD) available. I love my SACD's, there just aren't that many good ones out there that suit my taste.

[reiella]

Originally Posted by Bluray_ne1

I tend to agree, music downloads, rather than video, is where things are headed. I just want to see downloadable multi-channel surround sound music (like SACD) available. I love my SACD's, there just aren't that many good ones out there that suit my taste.

The music environment is heading that way because of portable media.

While admittantly, there are some nice 3d headphones that create multichannel output. They're not that common, especially when you're looking at the portable layer.

I don't think we'll see a jump in that manner for a while largely because of that.

I think you may be better off fighting for more studios to release music video blus or concert blus to get your hi-quality sound in a home theatre setting ;(.

[BluSmoke]

Originally Posted by Kratos3

I would love it! However, with iPods being so popular, and portability being the trend, I really don't see this happening. High-res audio is kind of a niche thing. SACD and DVD-A were very well reviewed and received by critics, but the general public could have cared less(I tried selling SACD players at Best Buy when they first came out...no one cared). As I said, I would love for this to happen, but I just don't see it catching on.

That's one of the reasons why SACD and DVD-A never took off. You had to buy new players.

The 8cm discs already plays in your Blu-ray players. I'm not saying it's going to replace downloads and CDs, but it would be a good option for people who are getting into Home Theater. With the prices falling, there's a boom in this hobby like never before.

I hope the BDA at least tries to get it out.

[Galley]

The labels failed at promoting hybrid SACDs. They cost the same as a standard CD, and in some instance, that was the only way they were produced. They would give glorious hi-res audio in SACD players and standard CD audio in any CD player. ABKCO released all of the Rolling Stones albums on SACD, but nowhere on the packaging did it state that. WTF?

[buckshot]

would the little blu rays load into the ps3?

its a cool idea. I love it. if it was like dvd-a and had photos of the recording sessions and other such things that'd be cool. uncompressed audio would be mega cool on some albums.

[blindcat87]

I think the music industry would be very foolish to give up on HD music. The fact is that they never really tried with SACD and DVD-A. The killer with them was not the player problem, but the interface problem and marketing issues. Even audiophiles were not happy having to use 6 analog cables to hook up their new players, and there was little attempt to market hi rez music and surround music. These formats were not ready for prime time until they were already a niche format, when HDMI became a standard. If there had been a convenient interface and labels had been willing to release more hybrid titles and market the advantage of the SACD layer, things could have been different.

I've said it before, I think the secret to BD music releases is to educate the consumer and to include a portable, low resolution version on each release allowing folks to experience HD surround music and still have a lossy compressed version for their iPods. Surround systems are a lot more common now than they were when the previous formats came about, serious demos at retail locations, a real marketing campaign, and something like Disney's BD tour could go a long way towards convincing the consumer that BD can improve their music listening experience as much as it does their movie experience. Especially if they go the extra mile to not alienate the MP3 crowd.

Just my opinions, but as someone who loves music as much as movies, I think it would be tragic for the music industry to give up on quality audio. I really think the key is to get the players in their houses, show them what it can be like on their home system, and provide the portable option as a bonus that they don't have to pay extra for.

Chris

[AbsentAbe]

This would be amazing! I would love to play high definition audio on my Blu-ray player!

A lot of people do like the iPod style of music, but the quality just isn't there. Would it really still be like this five or ten years down the road when people are still listening to music on their stereo capable iPods, or are we going to have the option of having music albums from many artists be crystal clear with multiple channels of audio.
With Blu-ray becoming the next generation format, I seriously think that this will happen. Of course it will probably still be separated into groups of people who prefer their iPods and the true music lovers (or just those who can afford the total Blu-ray Compact Disc system with the receiver and all the speakers), but it would be awesome to have that option!

BD and BCD...I like the sound of that!

[statikcat]

Originally Posted by BluSmoke

I'm sure someone at the BDA have considered this: There needs to be a true successor option to CDs. SACD and DVD-A are just dumb. It's so rare to own a player, even for a music lover. I love audio and have nearly 200 CDs. I don't own a DVD-A and didn't own an SACD player until my 60gb PS3. I still don't have an SACD.

With Blu-ray as the sucessor to DVDs and machines in millions (and millions to come), I think it would be great if the BDA decided to release the 8cm discs as the high definition replacements for CDs. It has plenty of space, it stands out because of its size and best of all - can be played in all Blu-ray players.

Sony music can try it maybe later this year with its big artists by releasing High resolution discs. For example, a Michael Jackson Thriller in 5.1 or 7.1 mix.

Does anyone have a chart of Blu-ray's audio limitations? Is it 96k24bit max?

What reason is there to really have a disc with higher quality than CD? You are not going to gain much sonically. There have already been formats beyond CD - even ones that ran on DVDs and they all failed. The quality gain is so small and most people do not care about 5.1 in this reguard. CDs are still around because they already sound great. If anything music sales are showing that people don't mind even sacrificing cd quality to mp3s/aac.. These formats currently have no future at all imo.

[Teazle]

Count me in. CD sounds horrible next to SACD; too bad there aren't more of the latter.

[blindcat87]

If you have read the discussion, the reasons behind the failure of previous attempts have been discussed and they have nothing to do with consumers not caring about quality, but inconveniences of the new formats and consumers not being informed of quality differences. The differences are easy to hear and one does not need an expensive system to hear it, just a standard surround system or even a stereo system will do.

Dismissing the idea because previous attempt failed for reasons that can be avoided by a new format is no reason to dismiss it out of hand.

Chris

Originally Posted by statikcat

What reason is there to really have a disc with higher quality than CD? You are not going to gain much sonically. There have already been formats beyond CD - even ones that ran on DVDs and they all failed. The quality gain is so small and most people do not care about 5.1 in this reguard. CDs are still around because they already sound great. If anything music sales are showing that people don't mind even sacrificing cd quality to mp3s/aac.. These formats currently have no future at all imo.

[seto]

Nothing beats a good LP. Go analog! ^^

[NutsAboutPS3]

A "Blu-ray CD" can just be a standard Blu-ray disc, can't it, no need for a different format?

All they'd have to do is release a CD as a Blu-ray disc, they could include videos for tracks where available, or lyrics on the screen if there isn't a video. Audio in the highest possible quality lossless format, of course. Plus it would probably fit on a BD-25 so could be made a double sided disc, CD on one side, and BD-25 on the other. I think it's important to keep it CD playable so people can still play it in the car or rip the tracks to an mp3 player.

[jkwest]

I would be all for it...

Sony just has their hands tied right now...I'm pretty sure they have already considered this as an option...

[Teazle]

Originally Posted by NutsAboutPS3

A "Blu-ray CD" can just be a standard Blu-ray disc, can't it, no need for a different format?

All they'd have to do is release a CD as a Blu-ray disc, they could include videos for tracks where available, or lyrics on the screen if there isn't a video. Audio in the highest possible quality lossless format, of course. Plus it would probably fit on a BD-25 so could be made a double sided disc, CD on one side, and BD-25 on the other. I think it's important to keep it CD playable so people can still play it in the car or rip the tracks to an mp3 player.

AFAIK "the highest possible quality lossless format" now supported by Blu-ray is (I think) up to six channels of 24-bit PCM at 96 kHz. (I don't know offhand about 7.1 though 7.1 at 24/48 is possible.) Ideally an expansion of the spec would allow for DSD or maybe 24/192 PCM; that would be really hi-res.

[CptGreedle]

Originally Posted by seto

Nothing beats a good LP. Go analog! ^^

While I can't argue with you directly, I can say that a friend of mine has taken me to his home to show me his $26k speakers (each) and precision $100k+ set up... in his home. Yes the turn table sounds AMAZING. But with the set up he has, a regular CD sounds almost as good!!! He is a serious audiophile and has spent tens of thousands of dollars on a top-of-the-line state-of-the-art CD player that separates all the components and gives an amazing result. However yes his turn table sounded even better!
But the last thing he showed was his SACD player, and I must say that I could take that over a turntable any day. Sure they sound identical (or close to it) to me... and some will argue that the warmer sound of the turntable is better and sounds superior, but it is so close that the convenience of a digital disc wins out. No scratches and pops, no trying to find the right track, no large vinyl to store, and it supports multi-channel.
I must admit that he prefers his turntable still, and that turntable was amazing (so precise that it had almost no pops or scratches), but he is also opening up to SACD more and more.
For me, my system doesn't even cost a fraction of a fraction of his... I spent about $300 on all 9 speakers, and $800 on the Receiver... plus $500ish for the PS3... so that leaves me at less than $2k...... a far cry from his. So I can barely hear the difference between a CD and an SACD on mine, but I absolutely love the multi-channel. That alone makes the SACD worth it. I do plan to (someday) get better speakers, but until then I will live with what I got.
A music BD is silly. You already can get a music DVD, and an SACD. I think adding 2 channels is not worth it, and the quality of an SACD can not be beat.

Are music DVDs and SACDs similar quality?

[tiger roach]

I would really love for a higher-res format to replace CDs. I had high hopes for SACD... *sigh*

It's just that most of the music-buyers out there are happy with mp3, which is even lower resolution than CDs. The differences of high-res in the audio world are just not as apparrant to most people as they are in the video realm.

[Teazle]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

But the last thing he showed was his SACD player, and I must say that I could take that over a turntable any day. Sure they sound identical (or close to it) to me... and some will argue that the warmer sound of the turntable is better and sounds superior, but it is so close that the convenience of a digital disc wins out. No scratches and pops, no trying to find the right track, no large vinyl to store, and it supports multi-channel.

Apart from the differences of convenience, lack of scratches/pops and (!!) the fact that optical discs don't wear out, vinyl isn't so great with the low end. Low mids are OK but ordinary CD tends to beat vinyl in the bass since it's harder to get that needle wobbling for the lows and I think maybe impossible for the sub-bass (say 30Hz or under) -- someone correct me if I'm wrong there.