HDR Discussion Thread

[PaulGo]

HDR10 vs. Dolby Vision vs. HLG: How do HDR formats compare?

https://www.cnet.com/news/hdr10-vs-d...rmats-compare/

[gkolb]

No HDR highlights or posts today?
I'm going through withdrawal...

EDIT: btw I though up a name for Samsung cinema, how about Samsung Cinema Vision +, or has someone else already locked onto part of that? :irony: :sarcasm:

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by gkolb

No HDR highlights or posts today?
I'm going through withdrawal...

creators increasing their skill set vis-à-vis up.grade in london….
https://www.facebook.com/upgrade.ber...type=3&theater

next tuesday i’m going in for wrist surgery of dominant hand and i’ll tell folks right now i won’t be hankering to do any pecking one-handed with only my non-dominant hand, plus the following week i’ll be busy at the upcoming SMPTE annual technical conference & exhibition....also expect long delays in answering any pm’s, sorry.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by gkolb

No HDR highlights or posts today?
I'm going through withdrawal...

from d- http://deadline.com/2017/10/oscars-w...ay-1202183437/

[clem.s]

Good to know that there are SMPTE members here!

[Penton-Man]

^
been keeping blu-ray.com folks informed even before the quarterly meetings reports have been finished and published online, e.g. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...y#post12039620

p.s.
there’s even a smpte chapter in hong kong …..https://www.facebook.com/smptehk
https://www.facebook.com/smptehk/vid...4019816507887/

[clem.s]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

p.s.

there’s even a smpte chapter in hong kong …..https://www.facebook.com/smptehk

https://www.facebook.com/smptehk/vid...4019816507887/

Thanks I was at this workshop last year!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by clem.s

Thanks I was at this workshop last year!

and not only in SMPTE, but other standards working groups too, over the past years we’ve tried to keep readers abreast of cutting edge developments and controversies regarding HDR as it sheds a little insight into the degree of complexity of issues to which these volunteer committee members deal with.

For example, just within the past several days, Dolby is challenging (with merit, imo) the presumed value at least as expressed in the wording of a proposal promoting the significance of measured parameters, such as wPSNR, etc. as opposed to that of the value of subjective testing for the evaluation of HDR compression performance, the later being underestimated in Dolby’s opinion.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by gkolb

No HDR highlights or posts today?
I'm going through withdrawal... .....

speaking of Asia, from Korea to Thailand - https://news.samsung.com/global/sams...ema-led-screen

at the upcoming ShowEast (http://www.filmexpos.com/showeast/), i would like to hear some news by Sony of solid plans for a commercial CLEDIS installation for a movie theater in the U.S., but I fear the decision makers feel that would undermine or detract from the success of their theatrical 4K RGB laser projector initiative.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

World Sight Day 2017 Make Vision Count - YouTube

^
Follow-up -

Documentary filmmaker, Kris Koenig, debuts SIGHT: The Story of Vision

http://storyofsight.com/

https://vimeo.com/153433636


for broadcast on PBS affilites nationwide starting October 13 – World Sight Day.

The one-hour documentary, narrated by Sir Elton John, is a comprehensive look at the science, medicine and technology of human vision. The film includes several individual stories of those across the globe who are losing or have lost their sight as well as showcasing the history of sight over the last 800 years and highlighting a growing global vision crisis.

Most PBS affiliates nationwide, are broadcasting the documentary throughout the fall and into spring, 2017 with more than 30 public TV stations, including New York, Chicago, Tampa, Phoenix, Las Vegas, San Francisco, Oregon, Denver and Dallas, debuting it on or around October 13. Locally, KVCR-TV in San Bernardino will air the program on October 26 and PBS SoCal (KOCE-TV) in Los Angeles will premiere the film in spring, 2017. The filmmakers have also secured international broadcasting partners in Canada, Europe and Asia.

In the meantime, think about becoming an organ donor (including your eyes). They make a great gift.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

For example, just within the past several days, Dolby is challenging (with merit, imo)....

in a document co-authored by Walt (https://www.linkedin.com/in/walt-husak-0164231/ ) et al.

[Staying Salty]

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=683

Originally Posted by BluRayHiDef

According to Vincent Teoh, it is to be expected that the HDR10 and Dolby Vision transfers of most titles will be pretty similar, because studios don't want to incur the higher expense of paying for two radically different color grades of one title. Instead, they'll just have the base HDR transfer (HDR10) serve as the bulk/"main body" of the Dolby Vision transfer, which means that they'll be paying for essentially one HDR transfer rather than two. So, essentially greed is preventing one format from being used to its full potential.

He explains this in the video below.

HDR10 vs Dolby Vision

More explanation please.

[gkolb]

I would like to hear what our own insiders think about this supposed revelation, especially since at one time we were led to believe the disc-based DV pass came first, and the subsequent HDR10 pass was a direct offshoot of the DV pass (with the 2nd metadata layer being created to make up the difference between the two.) Meaning DV is encoded at 12-bit and HDR10 is then limited to 10-bit. Not sure of any other HDR10 limitations that would apply.

This theory from Vincent seems too simplistic.

[Geoff D]

Is that what he actually says in the video? Or are people misunderstanding his explanation of HDR10 being the 'core' of DV on disc for something else? anyone got a time stamp?

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by gkolb

I would like to hear what our own insiders think about this supposed revelation, especially since at one time we were led to believe the disc-based DV pass came first, and the subsequent HDR10 pass was a direct offshoot of the DV pass (with the 2nd metadata layer being created to make up the difference between the two.) Meaning DV is encoded at 12-bit and HDR10 is then limited to 10-bit. Not sure of any other HDR10 limitations that would apply.

This theory from Vincent seems too simplistic.

It's BluRayHiDef's theory I think, not Vincent's?

The only revelation for me I suppose was that the extra dolby vision layer, the extra 2 bits to make up the final dolby vision 12-bit picture, is only encoded at 1080p, ie half resolution, which itself is already 4:2:0 of course.

[Geoff D]

Technically it's a quarter of the resolution (1/4th of the pixels) but I get the impression that the 1920x1080 DV enhancement layer is just a carrier for the metadata rather than actually being a resolvable, viewable thing, similar to the right eye data on an MVC-encoded 3D Blu-ray: the left eye is the viewable 2D 'base' layer but the right eye is encoded as the difference between the two, and it's then decompressed and rebuilt at the player end.

And yeah, sounds like BRHD is misunderstanding what's being said, I think he's unaware that HDR10 forms the base layer of DV on UHD disc.

[Shalashaska]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Technically it's a quarter of the resolution (1/4th of the pixels) but I get the impression that the 1920x1080 DV enhancement layer is just a carrier for the metadata rather than actually being a resolvable, viewable thing, similar to the right eye data on an MVC-encoded 3D Blu-ray: the left eye is the viewable 2D 'base' layer but the right eye is encoded as the difference between the two, and it's then decompressed and rebuilt at the player end.

And yeah, sounds like BRHD is misunderstanding what's being said, I think he's unaware that HDR10 forms the base layer of DV on UHD disc.

Are you implying he's making a big deal out of something he just learned? That most of us knew about already?

[StingingVelvet]

Not techy enough to understand all this easily, but it would be far, far from the first time a somewhat inferior format ended up ruling the day because of economics.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by gkolb

I would like to hear what our own insiders think about this supposed revelation.....

I haven't watched the video, that said -

I’m not really sure what newsworthy or meaningful concept BluRayHiDef is trying to convey as posted above by Staying Salty. Yes, you’re right, think of the DV grade as being the starting point, with the HDR10 encode being a less elegant, more restrictive progeny. Ultimately, how much ‘less elegant’ was previously explained last June –
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...r#post13712531

One way to test the precision and power of Dolby Vision vs. that of HDR10 would be to put together a compilation of colorful animation scenes with bright speculars and deep blacks all of which are dissolves……one after another, which thusly would leverage the frame by frame capability of Dolby Vision as compared to that of HDR10 and run them side by side on cheaper displays as well as higher end displays such as LGs and Sony TVs having their own intrinsic HDR10 dynamic built-in solutions for handling static HDR10 source content.

[Penton-Man]

Off now for pre-op labs and chest x-ray.