Early Blu-rays that may have playback issues (Criterion, Well Go USA, etc.)

[duggie walker]

Checked the following (chapter skips):

WALKABOUT - severe bronzing, DOES NOT PLAY

M - some bronzing, played second time after a clean, but film will only begin playing at 1:49

RIDE WITH THE DEVIL/ BIGGER THAN LIFE - definite bronzing but both play ok

STAGECOACH/ LOLA MONTES/ HOWARD'S END - very slight bronzing, all play ok

RIDE WITH THE DEVIL/ DAYS OF HEAVEN/ PIERROT LE FOU/ THE SEVENTH SEAL/ VIVRE SA VIE - no overt signs of bronzing, all play ok

Note that these were cursory checks of the main feature only, on the same PS3.

I can't find any correlation between size of booklets and the two problematic discs. Both M and WALKABOUT have sizeable booklets but so do a few of the others.

However, the two affected discs did exhibit the worst bronzing. If this is an indicator, I'd expect RIDE WITH THE DEVIL and BIGGER THAN LIFE to become problematic in time.

[Crimson King]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

^Any wagers on how long before this guy starts comparing himself to Jews in the Holocaust?

Come on, lets not get this thread locked.
I see this starting to go the route of the Halloween TCM thread.

[spawningblue]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

You don't actually know if those are first pressings or not. The "first print" text on the cover is fairly meaningless - it's only changed when Criterion makes a replacement authoring to correct a disc bug, like when there were audio channel issues with White and Che.

What were thee audio issues with Che?

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by spawningblue

What were thee audio issues with Che?

I apologize, it was Carlos, not Che.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...=175070&page=3

[GhostDawg]

My Walkabout disc is clearly bronzing. Days of Heaven and Summer Hours seem to have some deterioration on the edges and possibly slight bronzing. Other discs seem to fine.

[Freeza]

Originally Posted by Jett Rink

Why would they ignore you? Write to them in a calm and civilized manner and I'm sure they will reply. Be persistent but not annoying.

I'm not saying they're purposely ignoring me, but in the past month I've sent them a calmly worded e-mail (see below), followed by now 2 re-sends of said e-mail and I've yet to hear back. In the past I've written them a few times with payment questions and a packaging replacement request and received a reply within a day or so, if not the same day. To hear nothing in now close to 30 days is worrisome, especially with others stating they've received a prompt reply along with instructions on a replacement.

Cut and paste of E-mail I've sent:

Hello,
I'm writing to ask about the possibility of a replacement for a blu-ray disc that has gone faulty on me.

The disc in question is the blu-ray edition of Summer Hours (First Printing 2010). Upon browsing dvd/blu-ray forums I came across a thread (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=247759) where someone mentioned that their copy of Summer Hours was having issues loading. Numerous replies to the thread also mentioned similar issues as well as some stating that once it reached a certain point it would freeze, skip forward or pixilate. Having viewed my disc when it was initially released I didn't think much of it, but after seeing more and more replies be added to the thread over the past few days I decided to put the disc in and check it.

Inspecting the disc before putting it in my player I noticed the bottom (the side the player reads) was an uneven off yellow/gold color, as if the disc has started to tarnish (if that's the correct term), and upon putting it in the player and starting the film, it reaches 51:37 in Chapter 8, then jumps forward to the 1:25:38 mark, which is a bit into Chapter 15. The tarnishing, as well as several different players being mentioned in the thread noting the issue lead me to believe this is not a firmware issue.

As far as I'm aware, none of my other Criterion discs have experienced this issue. My discs are all treated as one would expect from a collector who values their collection, and are stored on shelves in a room that never gets too hot, too cold or too humid (ie; I do not believe this issue to have been caused by outside conditions that were in my control).

Is there a replacement policy that I may use to exchange my faulty disc, and if so, how might I go about doing so?


Thank you for your help in this matter,
...

[starman15317]

Well this isn't good. I hope they address this issue soon. I own M but I'm at college and don't have the disc with me so I can't check until I go home at some point. Paris, Texas has been on my wishlist for a while.

[Crimson King]

Criterion is most likely getting bombarded with emails, they are most looking for a solution to this debacle.
This is obviuosly the same disc replicator that is responsible for this.
I am upset as the rest of you folks, I just want to give CC a little more time...

[rdandura]

Originally Posted by Crimson King

Criterion is most likely getting bombarded with emails, they are most looking for a solution to this debacle.
This is obviuosly the same disc replicator that is responsible for this.
I am upset as the rest of you folks, I just want to give CC a little more time...

We have waited a month with absolute dead silence on their part. They should have at least thrown us a bone. There is no reason in the world a Blu Ray disc should become unplayable in just FOUR YEARS.

[Freeza]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

And going by your links above, how exactly are you determining that someone reporting that a disc isn't playable in a player isn't a player issue?

Pro-B

For me it's that Summer Hours freezes on every player I put it in, including the player I originally watched the entire film on and has not had a firmware update.

[tenia]

Originally Posted by jscoggins

The Seventh Seal falls just outside of the date range that Partyslammer figured out. Can you confirm that your copy does not play?

My copy of The Seventh Seal playbacks well on both my BD-ROM player and my Pana BDT-110.


The SID # story is a very interesting one.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by Dan8700

Thank you, sir. This is what I was thinking about, the SID code.

Please, pay attention, all the posters: doesn't matter if the cover reads "first printing", doesn't mean ANYTHING, you have to check the disc matrix-SID codes, as George said. Let's see if this method is a good one to sort the problem out (it can be of help for CC guys, too).
I own three of these, one of them bought recently, the other two some time ago, but surely not in 2010.
No bronzing.
They don't seem to have any issues=OK discs.

Chungking Express - IFP L321 (Second printing on the cover)
Days of Heaven - IFP L324 (FP on the cover)
Vivre Sa Vie - IFP L325 (FP on the cover)

I gather this L32* code indicates a recent "matrix", therefore it should be "safe".

There can also be two different SIDs, a Mastering SID and a Mould SID, if the mastering and replicator plants are different. If so, then the Mould SID would be the important identifier.

[murphywmm]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

You are overreacting and incorrect. It does not seem like all copies from release week are even affected, nevermind all future pressings. If you get a bad copy, you will be able to find a working replacement.

If you mean that you will "never be able to" own a copy of these movies because you cannot accept the uncertainty of the disc one day dying, that is a personal problem that you should seek to remedy. Manufacturing errors happen, replacement discs will be issued to those with bad discs, and life will go on.

That Criterion "deserves the worst possible punishment" is absurd - they are victims of this just as much as their customers are. Again, manufacturing errors happen - it's unavoidable every now and then. If the problem is only rearing its head 4 years later, how could they have known at the time? Especially Criterion, who is not in the business of actually pressing discs themselves? Criterion will replace discs, the pressing plant will reimburse Criterion, insurance will reimburse the pressing plant, etc. etc. etc.

Finally, a sensible post. Obviously, this is an isolated issue and there is no need for mass pandaemonium. I've actually seen posts on other forums crying that this is the end of the blu-ray format and physical media! Criterion has made good on other problems before and there's no reason to think they won't do the same here.

[spawningblue]

Originally Posted by GeorgeP12

I have 8 of 10 released from the list and they do have the problem.

I has checked SID Mastering Code on some of them. The code is located in the inner ring from optical disc. It's IFPI LB42. The disc from the recent "The Innocents" release has IFPI L322. Hence Criterion changed a mastering plant at some point in past.

UPD: A few discs from collection sorted by release date:

29-Jul-09 L021 Kagemusha
29-Jul-09 L021 Playtime
22-Sep-09 L021 Complete Monterey Pop Festival, The
22-Sep-09 L021 Pierrot Le Fou
20-Oct-09 L021 Monsoon Wedding
03-Nov-09 L021 Howards End
03-Nov-09 L021 Wings of Desire
01-Dec-09 ---- Christmas Tale, A
01-Dec-09 ---- Rolling Stones, The: Gimme Shelter
16-Dec-09 ---- Chungking Express
12-Jan-10 ---- 8 1/2
26-Jan-10 L021 Paris, Texas
16-Feb-10 ---- Revanche
23-Mar-10 ---- Bigger Than Life
23-Mar-10 LB42 Days of Heaven
23-Mar-10 ---- Yojimbo / Sanjuro
20-Apr-10 L322 Summer Hours
20-Apr-10 ---- Vivre sa vie: Film en douze tableaux
11-May-10 LB42 M
18-May-10 LB42 Walkabout
25-May-10 L021 Stagecoach
25-May-10 L021 By Brakhage: An Anthology

I did not yet check the mastering code for all these discs. The "bronzing" discs were printed on LB42 and on L021.

Originally Posted by Dan8700

Thank you, sir. This is what I was thinking about, the SID code.

Please, pay attention, all the posters: doesn't matter if the cover reads "first printing", doesn't mean ANYTHING, you have to check the disc matrix-SID codes, as George said. Let's see if this method is a good one to sort the problem out (it can be of help for CC guys, too).
I own three of these, one of them bought recently, the other two some time ago, but surely not in 2010.
No bronzing.
They don't seem to have any issues=OK discs.

Chungking Express - IFP L321 (Second printing on the cover)
Days of Heaven - IFP L324 (FP on the cover)
Vivre Sa Vie - IFP L325 (FP on the cover)

I gather this L32* code indicates a recent "matrix", therefore it should be "safe".

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

Everyone should take note of these posts - this kind of analysis seems like one of the most useful things we can do on our own until Criterion addresses the situation. If we can determine which pressings contain problematic discs and which pressings appear to be fine, it will go a long way towards easing people's concerns. I'd argue to not just include the IFPI information, though - we should also be looking at the two strings of numbers/letters that coincide with the layer barcodes on the bottom of the disc.

This. Anyone that has or hasn't had problems, please report back with these numbers. It's the only way we'll be able to narrow down the issue. As has been repeated several times, the first pressing on the cover means nothing. Everyone seems to be ignoring these posts for some reason, and they are the most important for figuring out where and when your discs were pressed.

[duggie walker]

Originally Posted by spawningblue

This. Anyone that has or hasn't had problems, please report back with these numbers. It's the only way we'll be able to narrow down the issue. As has been repeated several times, the first pressing on the cover means nothing. Everyone seems to be ignoring these posts for some reason, and they are the most important for figuring out where and when your discs were pressed.

I see nothing on the WALKABOUT disc except the writing around the outside edge of the printed side of the disc and there's no number like the one you mention, as far as I can see.

Can you be very precise as where this number is located?

[Trace17]

Just saw there's now a new thread, quite the explosive posts compared to our previous gathering. Since we're on the subject of sid codes, here's my original post from the previous thread three weeks ago:

Originally Posted by Trace17

After further research, I found that there is a code that should dictate where the disc was manufactured. I'm not sure on accuracy of this, so maybe someone more knowledgeable can weigh in, but both Walkabout and Summer Hours have sid codes of IFPI LB42, or as it appears to me. It's so tiny it could be IFPI L842. But they are the same to me.

And Vivre sa Vie had the same code, released the same day as Summer Hours.... no issues yet on that one....

Both of my defective discs were LB42.

Originally Posted by duggie walker

I see nothing on the WALKABOUT disc except the writing around the outside edge of the printed side of the disc and there's no number like the one you mention, as far as I can see.

Can you be very precise as where this number is located?

It's on the inner ring on the back (non-printed) side of the disc. It is very, very tiny. I had to use a magnifying glass to make it out.

[jayxrico]

Does Criterion have like a replacement program? These is ridiculous and we shouldn't be liable for this outcome.

[Freeza]

Originally Posted by spawningblue

This. Anyone that has or hasn't had problems, please report back with these numbers.

Summer Hours IFPI LB42 freezes, tarnished

[ShellOilJunior]

Criterion has made good in the past (Carlos, White, etc.). They'll take care of their consumers.

[duggie walker]

Originally Posted by Trace17

It's on the inner ring on the back (non-printed) side of the disc. It is very, very tiny. I had to use a magnifying glass to make it out.

Not a chance, then: I see no trace of a number so either it's not there on mine or it's waaay beyond my failing eye-sight.

Sorry, folks.