Early Blu-rays that may have playback issues (Criterion, Well Go USA, etc.)

[Bluyoda]

This truly is the scariest thread on here.
So far, I only have one BD affected by it (Monster Squad), that I know of, but it could be so many more (Criterions), which is deeply depressing.
Especially Criterion should have free replacement programs, since the BDs weren't exactly cheap to begin with.
This is the thing that physical media is supposed to be good at.

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by jjlikesonions

Yeah, when I look at the spot indicated for mould code in the picture of the first post of this thread, its the LM43. When I look really close to the hole, the color is a bit faded, and so maybe the mould code faded away? But I kinda doubt it because it would've needed to be VERY close to the center hole.

I bought from a third party on Amazon's marketplace. They accepted my return, so I'm not too upset. But I'm wondering if I should try to buy directly from Kino, or would I be risking the same issue. Will all discs from the same batch likely bronze? The UPC they have listed for the available release on their store is the same UPC as my defective one. What are the chances that the discs they have are all from the same defective batch? I don't know how bluray pressings work. Do they press them all at once, or do they just press batches over time based on demand?

I guess if I were lucky, someone else reading this would have a copy and be able to check before I try to buy another. or I can pray for Arrow to release this eventually.

Also, I sent Kino an email already just for good measure.

I'd be curious if Kino has any information for you - they'd be in the best position to have detailed information. Please post if they respond.

As for pressing - it's complicated and hard to answer definitively, unfortunately. A batch of discs will be pressed at one time, but the size of that batch can vary from 1,000 for limited/small releases to millions for huge blockbusters. If that batch sells out and there is still demand, another batch will be pressed, and so on. But unless the company switches replicators between batches (i.e., one mould code for one batch, and a different mould code for the next batch), it can be difficult to differentiate them.

There's also the fact that we don't know exactly what causes disc rot/bronzing. Some people consider the entire batch to be bad if a single disc has bronzed - like it must be a systemic material failure and all discs will eventually "rot." But I don't know that that is true. It's possibly, I don't have proof to the contrary - but without proof in the affirmative either, I don't accept it as a guarantee. It's possible it's just a random thing in the way that discs that are defective from day 1 are a random thing. There are plenty of 1-off reports of dead discs that are never corroborated or found to be widespread. There are clearly some releases with widespread problems, but those are much rarer.

For a film like Sympathy For Mr. Vengeance, they probably didn't press too large of a batch, so it's possible that a second or third batch was eventually pressed. Or it could have sold very badly, and there is only one batch. Kino (or maybe just Palisades Tartan) would know that information, but companies normally don't discuss details of that with the public. I did a check on this forum and a few Google searches and couldn't find anyone complaining about bronzing. There are a few Amazon reviews complaining about the discs not working, but you can find a few Amazon reviews complaining about every product ever released in the history of the world, so I normally take that with a grain of salt.

The standalone release of Sympathy For Mr. Vengeance was in 2014, but it was first released in a trilogy set in 2010, and 2010 had a lot of bronzing releases from the Hong Kong/Taiwan/Singapore replicators. It's possible that Palisades Tartan was repackaging 2010-era discs for their 2014 standalone release.

edit: Also, just to put all possibilities out there - it's possible your copy didn't "rot" but was just dead from day 1. Again, I don't have your disc in front of me so I can't say for sure, but sometimes people misdiagnose a disc as "bronzing" when it's not. Some discs are just lighter or more see-through, and it can appear like a slight bronzing in certain light. Not saying this for sure, just another idea to throw out there.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

This truly is the scariest thread on here.
So far, I only have one BD affected by it (Monster Squad), that I know of, but it could be so many more (Criterions), which is deeply depressing.
Especially Criterion should have free replacement programs, since the BDs weren't exactly cheap to begin with.
This is the thing that physical media is supposed to be good at.

Criterion has always had a replacement program for defective discs.

[jjlikesonions]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

I'd be curious if Kino has any information for you - they'd be in the best position to have detailed information. Please post if they respond.

As for pressing - it's complicated and hard to answer definitively, unfortunately. A batch of discs will be pressed at one time, but the size of that batch can vary from 1,000 for limited/small releases to millions for huge blockbusters. If that batch sells out and there is still demand, another batch will be pressed, and so on. But unless the company switches replicators between batches (i.e., one mould code for one batch, and a different mould code for the next batch), it can be difficult to differentiate them.

There's also the fact that we don't know exactly what causes disc rot/bronzing. Some people consider the entire batch to be bad if a single disc has bronzed - like it must be a systemic material failure and all discs will eventually "rot." But I don't know that that is true. It's possibly, I don't have proof to the contrary - but without proof in the affirmative either, I don't accept it as a guarantee. It's possible it's just a random thing in the way that discs that are defective from day 1 are a random thing. There are plenty of 1-off reports of dead discs that are never corroborated or found to be widespread. There are clearly some releases with widespread problems, but those are much rarer.

For a film like Sympathy For Mr. Vengeance, they probably didn't press too large of a batch, so it's possible that a second or third batch was eventually pressed. Or it could have sold very badly, and there is only one batch. Kino (or maybe just Palisades Tartan) would know that information, but companies normally don't discuss details of that with the public. I did a check on this forum and a few Google searches and couldn't find anyone complaining about bronzing. There are a few Amazon reviews complaining about the discs not working, but you can find a few Amazon reviews complaining about every product ever released in the history of the world, so I normally take that with a grain of salt.

The standalone release of Sympathy For Mr. Vengeance was in 2014, but it was first released in a trilogy set in 2010, and 2010 had a lot of bronzing releases from the Hong Kong/Taiwan/Singapore replicators. It's possible that Palisades Tartan was repackaging 2010-era discs for their 2014 standalone release.

edit: Also, just to put all possibilities out there - it's possible your copy didn't "rot" but was just dead from day 1. Again, I don't have your disc in front of me so I can't say for sure, but sometimes people misdiagnose a disc as "bronzing" when it's not. Some discs are just lighter or more see-through, and it can appear like a slight bronzing in certain light. Not saying this for sure, just another idea to throw out there.

Thank you for your insight! It's true that some discs are slightly different colors, but I compared the colors to several other discs and it's much closer in color to my REALLY bronzed 2010 Terrorizers than to any of my ither discs that i checked.

After I wait for a reply from Kino, I may just give it another shot directly from them. It's on sale, so it won't run me too much. I wonder if they would test the disc before sending my order if I requested it.

[jjlikesonions]

Coincidentally, I just received a copy of Sympathy For LADY Vengeance today. It's also from Palisades Tartan from 2010 (according to the package). The disc also list "IPFI LM43 twice, without another different code. But the color of this disc is the expected silver color and fortunately it plays just fine. Looks fantastic. I wish the mould code wasn't confusing/possibly messed up. I don't know if this indicates anything nessecarily in regards to MR Vengeance with the same mastering code.

[jjlikesonions]

Mr Vengeance


Lady Vengeance

[Bluyoda]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Criterion has always had a replacement program for defective discs.

Oh, I had no idea. That's wonderful to hear.
I hope it's for oversea customers as well.
Anyway, I haven't encountered any problems thus far, so hopefully it won't become necessary.

[meremortal]

Is there a better idea of what Fox discs may be problematic? I can't really recall any having rot type issues that cause playback errors or where they won't load at all. But I did see in another thread where some titles like Manhattan, The Simpsons Movie, Patton remaster, etc. may have issues. Luckily some of the troubling Lionsgate titles had other editions on blu or even uhd. And they may also be available for md2d on Vudu whereas Fox ittles are not.

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by meremortal

Is there a better idea of what Fox discs may be problematic? I can't really recall any having rot type issues that cause playback errors or where they won't load at all. But I did see in another thread where some titles like Manhattan, The Simpsons Movie, Patton remaster, etc. may have issues. Luckily some of the troubling Lionsgate titles had other editions on blu or even uhd. And they may also be available for md2d on Vudu whereas Fox ittles are not.

The info I posted in the other thread is a summary of what has been discussed in this thread, and is the most current information to the best of my knowledge. The problems have mostly been Lionsgate titles, with only Manhattan and The Simpsons Movie being widely reported for Fox, but I'm not sure what to make of that. All Lionsgate, Fox and Anchor Bay movies have been made by the same replicator, so I'm unsure why mostly Lionsgate titles have gone bad. Just random bad luck in the manufacturing process? Or have only the Lionsgate ones been reported, with there being other Fox/Anchor Bay ones we're not aware of?

[meremortal]

Just saw that. Thanks for the list - very informative. Luckily a lot of those Lionsgate titles have upgrades/uhds etc now or can be had on digital as a back-up without paying Disney prices.

[fdm]

So what's the problem with Manhattan?

[Aunt Peg]

Originally Posted by fdm

So what's the problem with Manhattan?

Some people are reporting bronzing and dead discs.

I checked mine a year ago and it was fine. But on the Woody Allen thread the issue came up again so I checked my disc today. It hasn't bronzed but when I loaded the disc, aside from being really noisey the Fox logo froze. It then went to the main menu and I pressed play. It played fine but when I did a chapter search on about the 3rd or 4th chapter I stopped the film and let it play and it started to freeze.

My disc is clearly on the way out. Well, really its finished - if a disc isn't playing properly in any way its as good as dead.

I've ordered the Arrow UK edition.

[someguy28]

This thread made me check my Manhattan disc and it's done. Both of my players recognize it but won't play it. I'm tempted to order a replacement but I know for sure that once I do Arrow or Criterion will announce a new edition. Anyone care to jump on that grenade for us?

[meremortal]

Funny, I'd just ordered Manhattan brand new from Hamilton Book a couple months or so ago but haven't checked it. Hopefully it's not too widespread. I have two copies of The Monster Squad's Lionsgate release and the Olive release as well.

[fdm]

Well that's unfortunate regarding Manhattan. If I can find my copy (easier said than done), I'll give it a spin in the next few days.

[murphywmm]

Regarding some of the aforementioned fox titles, I've played the following and they played through without issue:
Manhattan
Annie Hall
Martha Marcy May Marlene
The Simpsons Movie

These are Canadian releases, but three of the discs appear to be the same as the US pressings, and have the IFPI 2F29 mould code. The exception is "The Simpsons Movie" which has a mould code of IFPI 4530 which seems to be a Japanese replicator. I'll be keeping an eye on these discs to see if they develop any issues.

[meremortal]

Guess I'm covered on these for now, but it'd be nice if someone like Shout or Arrow would re-release unless Lionsgate wants to re-do them for uhd:

[Show spoiler]

[spawningblue]

Just a heads up, but most of the Lionsgate titles were put out by Maple here in Canada. So far I haven't had any issues with any of them, including Monster Squad. If you want to re-purchase them, try and find the Maple releases which are identical as far as content is concerned, just created at a different plant I assume.

EDIT: My The Punisher disc no longer loads, but that was released by Alliance, not Maple.

[GuruAskew]

It’s almost a certainty that Scream Factory will release Monster Squad. It’s a Paramount title now and they’ve done the other two Dekker films.

[BluProofie]

I just got Scarlet Street and the ring looks like this:

Is that normal?