Early Blu-rays that may have playback issues (Criterion, Well Go USA, etc.)

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

The thing that concerns me is this:
I got 2 of these Blurays, but recently.
If they start deteriorating after a couple of years?

Assuming (and this is still an assumption at this point, if an educated one) that the problem is oxidization of the data surface...

The oxidization process would've started pretty much right away. And the cases and shrink-wrapping are not airtight. Which means regardless of whether you bought them in 2010 or 2014, if they are from the bad batches pressed in 2010 they should be showing the symptoms by now. No guarantees, but if they aren't showing the symptoms now, I think it's safe to say that they probably won't a couple of years from now.

On edit: It just occurred to me that the oxidization might not have started happening right away. If the "leak" was because of a chemical breakdown of the coating rather than a sloppily applied coating, the oxidization might have taken a while to start. But either way, if some copies from a bad batch are showing deterioration now, it's not unreasonable to assume that any copy from a bad batch should be showing the same deterioration now. So if (like me) your copies look fine now, they're undoubtedly from an OK batch and will stay that way.

This exchange program won't be indefinite...

Why do you say that? I've said it before, for the past 30 years Criterion has never placed a time limit on exchanges for defective discs. Now I would assume that if I were to discover that my Criterion LD of Tarkovsky's Nostalghia had inexplicably gone bad, that I probably couldn't get them to send me a replacement now, but until Criterion either stops releasing Blu-rays altogether or folds up shop, I would expect them to replace these defective discs for as long as they are able to.

and what about if I get eg. Paris-Texas in a year and it's one of the bad ones?

Then you will undoubtedly be able to exchange it.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by ElliesDad

On a related matter, does anyone really doubt that Criterion will not still honor the replacement program one, two, or three years down the road in the seemingly unlikely event that one of the identified releases should develop a problem retroactively?

I'm completely confident they would be willing to replace any defective disc one or two or three or however many years down the road. Until we get definitive word on the ins and outs of replacing OOP discs I'm not completely sure they would be able to replace those discs several years down the road. Do they have a limited pool of replacement discs? Is it a deep pool? We don't really know.

That aside, I'm a little torn in general about proactively replacing discs that currently show no sign of problems. It's no real hardship for me to wait until an actual problem presents itself to send the disc in. They're doing right by everybody, why add to their overhead needlessly?

OTOH I'd hate to find myself in the mood for Paris, Texas a year or two from now only to find then that the disc is no longer playable.

I mean, having movies at your fingertips to serve your whims and fancies is a big part of the appeal of having a film library in the first place.

Still, I'll probably wait. Hell, I still haven't replaced my Carlos or Three Colors: White and I've known about that for well over a year

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by octagon

Still, I'll probably wait. Hell, I still haven't replaced my Carlos or Three Colors: White and I've known about that for well over a year

And here I thought I might be the only person who's been dragging his heels about that. I haven't bought a copy of Carlos yet, but one of these days, I should go about getting a replacement for White. I'm thinking that I should put it off a while longer while they deal with the current problem, but then, they might appreciate seeing a replacement request that doesn't involve the rot issue.

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Why do you say that? I've said it before, for the past 30 years Criterion has never placed a time limit on exchanges for defective discs. Now I would assume that if I were to discover that my Criterion LD of Tarkovsky's Nostalghia had inexplicably gone bad, that I probably couldn't get them to send me a replacement now, but until Criterion either stops releasing Blu-rays altogether or folds up shop, I would expect them to replace these defective discs for as long as they are able to.

well, I meant mainly for the OOP titles like Howards End.
It still seems surprising how they can exchange it now, so i feared about the future.

[tenia]

I'll have to ask them (again) too about non US+Canada resident.
Even if this is only a couple discs, it's going to cost me exorbiting shipping fees from France to the US.

[Torrente]

Well, if you could tell me what they said as soon as they answer that would be nice buddy!
I'll do the same as I wrote to Jon yesterday

[kimkarlsson]

I´m living in Sweden and I managed to get replacements for Carlos disc 2 and White earlier and it Went very well. I just sent in the discs according to the instructions in the mail from Jon Mulvaney. Hopefully it will go very smooth this time too when I have to get replacements for Summer Hours and Walkabout

[Five Inches]

TL; DR

I started reading this thread thinking I'd cover all the bases before posting my findings, but here goes.

• I played all these discs by skipping to each chapter stop and letting it play for a few secs. While not an extensive check of playability it at least gave me some idea of disc issues. There could obviously be problems not found inbetween chapter skips.
• As I own all the BDs released by Criterion, I decided to check all discs, and I've checked 1 through 551. The only discoloration I found is presented below, and were among the titles in the OP of this thread.
• I'm using a Slim PS3 (NA).

Discs with strong coloration/bronzing:
Summer Hours - Never loads
Walkabout - Played my first attempt, could chapterskip up to round 50-ish minutes then wouldn't play for a several chapters, and then could play a few at the end. Second time I put the disc in the player to pinpoint these skipped chapters it wouldn't even play.

Discs with coloration:
In the realm of the senses - Chapter stop play OK
M - Chapter stop play OK
Monsoon Wedding - Skips ~1.35:07 -- 1:45:06, found by chapter skipping.
Monterey Pop - Skips first chapter (first 3 mins).
Ride with the Devil - Chapter stop play OK

I wonder if some of these colorations are basically the print shining through the layers. Most of these have yellow/brown disc labels. By that I mean, I wouldn't call my copies "bronzing" but just discolored, be it by the label or other issues, and I'm not claiming that any of these are not bronzing for someone else.

Discs with no coloration/bronzing. Chapter stop skipping OK:
Bigger than Life
A Christmas Tale - Did have a peeling issue
Days of Heaven
Gomorrah
Howard's End
Kagemusha
A Night to Remember - Outside bronzing scope, and no peeling.
Paris, Texas
Pierrot le fou
The Seventh Seal
Stagecoach / Bucking Broadway

EDIT: Added some pictures

[Show spoiler]

The discs all have a bronze tint to begin with:


Walkabout:



Summer Hours:



Ride with the Devil:



Monsoon Wedding:



Monterey Pop:



M:

I will now read the rest of the thread

[mport5150]

It will be interesting to see how many discs will need to be replaced when its all said and done...I'm not the biggest Criterion collector around, but I do have over 100, so it would definitely affect me...

[Al_The_Strange]

Originally Posted by Hayabusa85

All Blu-ray are transparent like that. Just more noticeable with the Well Go (Universal are another) releases because they print very little onto them.

Originally Posted by wormraper

yeah, a lot of universal discs do the same thing... very little silk screening

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Universal ones looking that way.

[I KEEL YOU]

Wow, what's up with blu rays bronzing all of a sudden? Weren't they supposed to be the tougher format than DVD and were in theory supposed to last hundreds of years? This really sucks.

[DetroitSportsFan]

Originally Posted by wormraper

Also add

Delightful Forest
Brothers Five
The Heroic Ones

I have these 3. I'm going to have to check them.

[jscoggins]

I've added all the titles mentioned, including their release dates, to the OP.

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by uther

I guess I should of wrote Canadian Get Screwed in the title. I have bought Criterion both from the US and in Canada. Does this affect the discs distributed in Canada as well and is mailing to the US the only option?

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=249210

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by Inspector Toschi

Edit: Just wanted to add that I checked all my discs after reading the Criterion blog/news on the bd main page. I had not yet read this thread and I didn't know that discs made printed between 09 & 10 were the supposed problematic ones. Yet the ones I singled out as "maybe" looking bronze-ish all come from 09 & 10. Coincidence? Maybe. Either way, I guess I'll be watching them over the next week to look for any problems.

Not a coincidence. Collectively, we researched this issue using the scientific method. We narrowed down the list quickly and determined that the majority of bad discs were pressed by a particular replicator.

Having said that, bronzing is not the only issue, and one of the titles listed in the OP falls slightly outside of the general date range.

Originally Posted by Five Inches

A Christmas Tale - Did have a peeling issue

I will now read the rest of the thread

Thanks for this note.

Guys, please check your copies of A Christmas Tale. This peeling could be happening because of a problem at another factory, not Sonopress.

What are the codes on your copies of A Christmas Tale?

[bokes]

My Paris Texas disc has browning and it freezes about 37 minutes into film.

(My 8 1/2 appears to be fine.
damn- I just don't have time to watch ALL these films right now to check for issues)

I will wait until Monday to contact Criterion about a replacement for Paris Texas

Has anyone received replacements yet on this wide spread issue?

[uther]

Originally Posted by jscoggins

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=249210

That addresses US concerns not Canada.

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by bokes

My Paris Texas disc has browning and it freezes about 37 minutes into film.

(My 8 1/2 appears to be fine.
damn- I just don't have time to watch ALL these films right now to check for issues)

I will wait until Monday to contact Criterion about a replacement for Paris Texas

Has anyone received replacements yet on this wide spread issue?

People have gotten replacements for Days of Heaven and Walkabout on and off for the past couple of years.

[joie]

8 1/2 bronzing and has playback issues -- WARNING: large picture:

[Show spoiler]IMG_20141003_160119.jpg

[Five Inches]

Originally Posted by jscoggins

What are the codes on your copies of A Christmas Tale?

L0 D 24
L1 DO 25

There's also a picture showing the (albeit small) peeling issue:

[Show spoiler]