8K discussion thread

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by Shin sam

Find out the maximum line resolution the human eye can see.

This depends on distance and screen size. For my setup, 720p gets me there. For others, 4K isn't enough.

[Penton-Man]

https://www.smpte.org/detail-4k-imaging

“2160p30 is inferior to 720p60 and does not show more detail than 1080p30," he said. "2160p60 is superior to 720p60 but only marginally better than 1080p60. And 1080p120 is superior to 2160p60. The Holy Grail for sports is 120; that's when you start to get interesting results.”

Might I add that with any significant people/object or camera (panning) motion - 2160p120 has more clarity than 4320p60
2160p = ‘4K’
4320p = ‘8K’

And if you see any 8K vs. 4K TV demos at industry shows in which there is any significant actor motion or camera panning motion and the 8K60p footage looks superior to the 4K60p, then the TV manufacturers are not including the best processing they have in their 4K TVs.

So, in terms of providing the public with greater picture detail, what should the industry be concentrating its efforts on?....with supporting hardware for increases in spatial or temporal resolution?…..unless one wants to view panoramic landscapes with locked off cameras, talking head content or unfair, contrived demos.

[Penton-Man]

In discussion with peterv on September 3, 2018 - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...y#post15484668, in particular -

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well movies are a whole different ballgame as compared to striving to capture sports in the most crystal clear fashion possible. As for narrative motion pictures, directors and their DPs are often motivated by ‘stylistic’ choices which essentially involves blurring the image from which the capability of cameras and more importantly, really sharp lenses at traditional frame rate (24 fps) are able to provide anyway these days even without 8K 120fps considerations. So, I’m not so sure that getting the most clarity out of their movie at 8K acquisition and exhibition will even be a concern to most filmmakers who by nature are more artsy-fartsy in their storytelling than clinical.

peterv, see what I mean -

Dateline September 5th, 2018 -
“In our case we use the best and sharpest lenses, which are called Master Primes, but we put Harrison double fog filters in front, we put glitter filters in front. We do everything in front of the lense to make it not look like 4K, because we don’t want everything to look sharp. We don’t want everything to look contrasty.

No actor wants to be shot on 4K without filters in front of them. They don’t look good. They look crappy. We are making art and we are not filming a science experiment.”
(excerpted from a speech this past week at CEDIA - https://hdguru.com/sonnenfeld-not-ev...hot-in-4k-hdr/)

I don’t view science experiments on TV, but I will say that I (and I know many of my friends) want our sporting events like soccer, etc. to be shown as crystal clear as possible.

[peterv]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

In discussion with peterv on September 3, 2018 - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...y#post15484668, in particular -


peterv, see what I mean -

Dateline September 5th, 2018 -
“In our case we use the best and sharpest lenses, which are called Master Primes, but we put Harrison double fog filters in front, we put glitter filters in front. We do everything in front of the lense to make it not look like 4K, because we don’t want everything to look sharp. We don’t want everything to look contrasty.

No actor wants to be shot on 4K without filters in front of them. They don’t look good. They look crappy. We are making art and we are not filming a science experiment.”
(excerpted from a speech this past week at CEDIA - https://hdguru.com/sonnenfeld-not-ev...hot-in-4k-hdr/)

I don’t view science experiments on TV, but I will say that I (and I know many of my friends) want our sporting events like soccer, etc. to be shown as crystal clear as possible.

Thanks Penton-Man, yes I’ve been reading American Cinematographer since the eighties and I recognise the DP-talk about needing all kinds of diffusion, especially for medium shots and close-ups. I understand their thought process and I think they’re right for most movies. This idea of needing to take care of the actors’ looks has always been a major selling point for DP’s, and rightly so. There’s a lot of money invested in hiring big names and the producers want to make sure the actors look their best.

As I'm sure you know, this has been going on for decades, as early as the 1920s and 1930s where they used all kind of diffusion material, including cigarette smoke
Long before anyone in Hollywood ever used the word 4K, let alone 8K, 35mm was often deemed too sharp.

I must say I’ve always admired actresses who give the DP room to manoeuvre with more harsh lighting if the story and character ask for such an approach. A little more freedom to break with the friendly diffusion and soft lighting convention would be a good thing for more creative lensing, IMHO.

Having said all that, I too watch a lot of live soccer and bike racing on TV and I’m looking forward to seeing the Vuelta in glorious 8K with 120 fps

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by peterv

....Having said all that, I too watch a lot of live soccer and bike racing on TV and I’m looking forward to seeing the Vuelta in glorious 8K with 120 fps

WOW, I didn’t know we also shared the same non-cinematographic interests! And the Vuelta, maybe .05% of the readers of this forum even know what that is to begin with.

[Agent Kay]

https://www.superfi.co.uk/t-samsung8k.aspx

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

In discussion with peterv on September 3, 2018 - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...y#post15484668, in particular -


peterv, see what I mean -

Dateline September 5th, 2018 -
“In our case we use the best and sharpest lenses, which are called Master Primes, but we put Harrison double fog filters in front, we put glitter filters in front. We do everything in front of the lense to make it not look like 4K, because we don’t want everything to look sharp. We don’t want everything to look contrasty.

No actor wants to be shot on 4K without filters in front of them. They don’t look good. They look crappy. We are making art and we are not filming a science experiment.”
(excerpted from a speech this past week at CEDIA - https://hdguru.com/sonnenfeld-not-ev...hot-in-4k-hdr/)

I don’t view science experiments on TV, but I will say that I (and I know many of my friends) want our sporting events like soccer, etc. to be shown as crystal clear as possible.

I was at that meeting with Mr. Sonnenfeld. I understood his point, but it was mainly a generalized comment that every DP and director is different. He was also complaining about HDR with his production on Netflix. I look at all of this as tools that one can either use or not use. HDR doesn't mean you have to have super bright highlights. There is no reason an HDR grade can't look 100% identical to a non-HDR grade if you so desire it.

As for resolution with moving objects and 8K vs 4K for it, I think most of that comes down more to the limitations of the capture than the display. The display is just doing frame interpolation, so your results will depend on its prowess in that area, or the natural refresh rate of the display (96, 120, etc.). But it is all fake resolution unless you captured higher frame rates.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

I was at that meeting with Mr. Sonnenfeld. I understood his point, but it was mainly a generalized comment that every DP and director is different.

Shoot, I’d venture a good portion of the footage of feature motion picture content which people eventually see with the finished products over the course of a year doesn’t leverage the full potential of the sharpest acquisition tools and that either in-camera or in post, the res is stylistically softened down to what it could be like with sports or nature documentaries.

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

As for resolution with moving objects and 8K vs 4K for it, I think most of that comes down more to the limitations of the capture than the display. The display is just doing frame interpolation, so your results will depend on its prowess in that area, or the natural refresh rate of the display (96, 120, etc.). But it is all fake resolution unless you captured higher frame rates.

Personally, instead of Robert chasing IMAX for a sample of their ‘Enhanced’ content, I would prefer he ask LG for a USB with some 2160p120 HLG/BT.2100 footage to play on one of their televisions (https://www.blurbusters.com/lg-oled-...ps-hfr-videos/) so that the attendees of his shootout on the east coast could see with their own eyes the next significant next gen video imagery.

[Penton-Man]

Kris, did you get a chance to see this projector in action while at the show?

CEDIA 2018 – Digital Projection INSIGHT LASER 8K Video - YouTube

CEDIA 2018 – Digital Projection INSIGHT LASER 8K Video - YouTube

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Kris, did you get a chance to see this projector in action while at the show?

CEDIA 2018 – Digital Projection INSIGHT LASER 8K Video - YouTube

Whoa, like that piece of tech, looks like it's all function over form.
Kinda badass!

[Deciazulado]

True 8K sharpness at 120fps will be incredible. Getting closer and closer to the goal. Or is it Gooooollll!

from DPReview a true 8K still image dl

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/ima...6f40c6f358.jpg

[LordoftheRings]

JVC is going 8K too, sort of ...

• https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/09/11/71847/

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Kris, did you get a chance to see this projector in action while at the show?

CEDIA 2018 – Digital Projection INSIGHT LASER 8K Video - YouTube

I did. It is doing XPR shifting of native 4K DMD. Contrast is still DLP poor but they picked the demo material well. Lots of bright color detail and a huge screen.

[LordoftheRings]

▪ https://nofilmschool.com/2018/02/beauty-8k-large-format
▪ http://www.mindmotionfilms.com/new-b...ideo-marketing

[LordoftheRings]

Links, we can all use good 8K links ...

• https://www.redsharknews.com/product...s-from-morocco
• https://www.redsharknews.com/product...-quickly-as-4k

• https://www.redsharknews.com/product...ocumentary-rig
• https://www.redsharknews.com/product...ll-photography

• https://www.redsharknews.com/product...position-on-8k
• https://www.redsharknews.com/product...17th-september,

[MelonGx]

It seems that nVidia GeForce RTX2080(Ti) can decode 8K Gangnam Style (x264) now.
This video is unable to be hardware decoded until RTX2080 released.
Before that, we need a monster CPU with at least 20 cores 40 threads @ 3.20GHz to software decode it.

[Staying Salty]

Originally Posted by 6athome

Samsung's 85" Q900R 8K TV starts shipping this month for $15,000

Samsung’s first 8K TV costs $15,000 and will start shipping in the US in late October. The 8K LCD TV features Samsung’s latest technology including the external One Connect box.

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1538632345

.

[Staying Salty]

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News...x?NewsId=70729

The SC1H05AT1 is optimized for the use in 8K TV sets. The device supports the Advanced BS 8K Broadcasting, which is scheduled to start in Japan later this year. It is also equipped with the video processing functionalities for 8K video inputs from external sources. SC1H05AT1 is applicable with V-by-One input and output, as well as with HDMI 2.0/2.1. In addition, the up-scaler functionality and Socionext's proprietary high picture quality technology of HV5 are capable of supporting the playback of Full HD (2K) / 4K video content on 8K panels.

,

[gkolb]

^ Nice find!

[Staying Salty]

Samsung Potentially Working on Quantum Dot OLED TV, But Faces Challenges

https://hdtvtest.co.uk/n/Samsung-Pot...ces-Challenges

DSCC cites sources as saying that Samsung is likely to begin production of its first QD OLED displays as early as next year. The company plans to start with 5,000 units per month to begin with, before ramping up production to 30,000 units a month by 2021 if it can make things work.

The only problem is it’s still quite a big “if” as Samsung faces a number of challenges in order to successfully manufacture QD OLED at scale. According to DSCC’s report the two main challenges involve creating a “good blue OLED” and making the Quantum Dot Colour Converter which is used to manage the light emitted.