1962 Mutiny on the Bounty in November 8 - Review up

[Deciazulado]

Mutiny on the Bounty Blu-ray Review

[Primal Sage]

Well, I have the BD and I have watched it. The quality is... reasonable. The sound is glorious but the image is very clearly too soft and with a distinct lack of detail compared with a good 35mm transfer. And this is supposed to be a 65mm transfer which isn't evident at any time.

Colour is fantastic but contrast at times seems set too dark. Edge enhancement it present but it's only moderate and only visible in scenes with something against bright backgrounds.

DNR has quite clearly been employed.

I love the movie and it looks good enough to be worth buying but the BD could have been so much better.

[ElliesDad]

Originally Posted by whitesheik

There was nothing like it and the fact that basically it's done and never coming back is a real shame. I was obsessed with large format roadshows - I saw West Side Story over twenty times at the Chinese Theater - I just couldn't get enough... King of Kings (multiple times) and Lawrence and The Sound Of Music - it was so incredible and so much better than 35mm, and in those days those shows were filled with that most lost of arts - showmanship. They really were events. And now I'll stop sounding like on old fogey!

Nothin' wrong with being an old fogey, except perhaps using the term 'old fogey'! Are there actually young fogies?

Besides the magnificent, spectacular productions on offer there was also the whole movie-going experience. These movies really were shared-experience cultural events that drew everyone to the theatre together regardless of age or outlook. The theatres were big and opulent, with chandeliers and gilded cherubs everywhere and the audiences were excited, light-hearted, and above-all respectful of one another. Everyone was well-adjusted, at least for the time-being, no one had issues! And when the huge curtain rolled back the whole crowd would immediately hush in anticipation and then the music would start up and swell and everyone would be instantly, totally transported into the common-bond and magic of the cinema. Sound like your last experience at the cineplex?

As to the topic at hand, going to have to go with the blu-ray release. I made the argument in another forum that the studios shouldn't be rewarded for issuing less than stellar releases. Someone else made the point that if you love the particular movie enough you'll want to get the best possible copy available, regardless... and in this case they're right.

[Oliver K]

The screencaps also look depressing - you know that Warner really messed this up when the blu-ray.com caps look exactly as soft as the Beaver caps

Te best screencap is the one of the menu - one only has to look at Brando and Tarita there and compare that to the fuzzy screencaps - another missed chance.

[in2video2]

Originally Posted by whitesheik

There was nothing like it and the fact that basically it's done and never coming back is a real shame. I was obsessed with large format roadshows - I saw West Side Story over twenty times at the Chinese Theater - I just couldn't get enough. I'd already seen Ben-Hur and Exodus in 70mm - prior to that I think I'd only seen the roadshows in their 35mm releases - although I had seen Seven Wonders Of The World in Cinerama (amazing) and Windjammer. Oh, and Scent Of Mystery in 70mm and Smell-O-Vision, one of my fondest memories ever. But also King of Kings (multiple times) and Lawrence and The Sound Of Music - it was so incredible and so much better than 35mm, and in those days those shows were filled with that most lost of arts - showmanship. They really were events. And now I'll stop sounding like on old fogey!

You, my friend, are a kindred spirit. A whole generation mourns the loss of 70mm 6-Track productions. IMAX is no replacement and most contemporary multiplex audiences don't have a clue what we had as youngsters. Still, Blu-Ray will be our best and likely final chance to restore and save these classic movies for all time. BTW... you are not the only "old fogey" managing to frequent this forum. LOL.

[Oliver K]

I just compared the Blu-Ray to my mediocre HD-DVD and for the three scenes that I could find the Blu-Ray screencaps look identical to the paused HD-DVD - the added bitrate does not help at all with detail wich is disappointing.

[Scooter1836]

Originally Posted by in2video2

You, my friend, are a kindred spirit. A whole generation mourns the loss of 70mm 6-Track productions. IMAX is no replacement and most contemporary multiplex audiences don't have a clue what we had as youngsters. Still, Blu-Ray will be our best and likely final chance to restore and save these classic movies for all time. BTW... you are not the only "old fogey" managing to frequent this forum. LOL.

You got that one right.

I guess I am in the "old fogey" club too LOL

[whitesheik]

Originally Posted by in2video2

You, my friend, are a kindred spirit. A whole generation mourns the loss of 70mm 6-Track productions. IMAX is no replacement and most contemporary multiplex audiences don't have a clue what we had as youngsters. Still, Blu-Ray will be our best and likely final chance to restore and save these classic movies for all time. BTW... you are not the only "old fogey" managing to frequent this forum. LOL.

IMAX has never impressed me - I went early on, the first year of its existence, and for me it was just blah compared to 70mm widescreen. It's really hard to explain to people what it was like because they have no frame of reference. Today, when I go see "70mm" screenings at the American Cinematheque for example, the screen size is no different, width-wise, than their standard 35mm scope screenings - I saw Khartoum there and it was a big snooze for me, as beautifully sharp as the print was. Same with seeing 70mm at the Aero Theater in LA - there is no point in showing these things in theaters that don't have the screen real estate that it takes. I keep promising myself that I'll fly up to Seattle for one of these festivals they do in that huge old Cinerama theater - that's the kind of place I want to see 70mm - in a palace with huge screen real estate.

[eChopper]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

I just compared the Blu-Ray to my mediocre HD-DVD and for the three scenes that I could find the Blu-Ray screencaps look identical to the paused HD-DVD - the added bitrate does not help at all with detail wich is disappointing.

not surprising considering the same DNR'd master was used. What a waste of a pristine 65mm element . Shame on Warner Bros

[in2video2]

Originally Posted by whitesheik

IMAX has never impressed me - I went early on, the first year of its existence, and for me it was just blah compared to 70mm widescreen. It's really hard to explain to people what it was like because they have no frame of reference. Today, when I go see "70mm" screenings at the American Cinematheque for example, the screen size is no different, width-wise, than their standard 35mm scope screenings - I saw Khartoum there and it was a big snooze for me, as beautifully sharp as the print was. Same with seeing 70mm at the Aero Theater in LA - there is no point in showing these things in theaters that don't have the screen real estate that it takes. I keep promising myself that I'll fly up to Seattle for one of these festivals they do in that huge old Cinerama theater - that's the kind of place I want to see 70mm - in a palace with huge screen real estate.

Indeed, the same happened in Australia. None of the 70mm movie palaces as they were once described exist. Very few and far between they are scattered around the world. The not so subtle irony is that these 70mm 6-Track spectacular epics - drama, musicals, westerns - various genre - are being short-listed to Blu-Ray. If only the digital movie making process could recapture what presentations filmed in 70mm delivered. George Lucas may have given us Star Wars - he also initiated the change to the multiplex cinema and the change from 70mm to 35mm dominance in movie production and presentation. Hollywood needs all the fresh ideas and enthusiasm it can muster to regenerate itself. The Home Entertainment option is fast becoming an attractive alternative for many. Hollywood needs to step up and become dominant once more.

[Primal Sage]

Things are actually starting to look quite good. They've finally managed to make a digital camera which is able to shoot digitally in a resolution equivalent to the quality of 35mm film. It's called Red One and shoots in 4k resolution (most digitally shot movies have been 2k). Since it's vastly cheaper to produce movies with this Compared to regular film, it will most likely dominate Hollywood in a few years time and replace 35mm in the majority of productions.

They have already made a 5k model though - the Red Epic. The upcoming The Hobbit movies, Avatar 2, Prometheus and many other big productions are currently shooting with it and 4k and 5k projectors are starting to appear in theaters.

I really look forward to see the boost in quality this will usher in. And I REALLY look forward to the next couple of iterations of Red Epic which they have announced: 7k and 9k. Effectively the return of 70mm film in theaters if the same evolution in theater projectors follows suit.

They are even talking about a 26k camera underway but that is probably still quite far away.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by whitesheik

There was nothing like it and the fact that basically it's done and never coming back is a real shame. I was obsessed with large format roadshows - I saw West Side Story over twenty times at the Chinese Theater - I just couldn't get enough. I'd already seen Ben-Hur and Exodus in 70mm - prior to that I think I'd only seen the roadshows in their 35mm releases - although I had seen Seven Wonders Of The World in Cinerama (amazing) and Windjammer. Oh, and Scent Of Mystery in 70mm and Smell-O-Vision, one of my fondest memories ever. But also King of Kings (multiple times) and Lawrence and The Sound Of Music - it was so incredible and so much better than 35mm, and in those days those shows were filled with that most lost of arts - showmanship. They really were events. And now I'll stop sounding like on old fogey!

FWIW, I could have read another 6 paragraphs whitesheik, because I'm an "old fogey" too, and remember reserving tickets weeks or months in advance, and travelling 100 miles by train to the closest theatre exhibiting those pristine 70mm roadshow prints!

While I can still admire many movies made today, there's just so much digital post on them - with predictable, overly manipulated colour palettes - that I don't feel the same rush of "showmanship" as I did then. It's just product blowing through the 'plexes these days, often cleverly imagined and appealingly packaged, but rarely a moviemaking event. Even the less than classic, second tier 70mm roadshows were still overwhelming audio visual experiences that drew you in via sheer presence.

All I'm saying is we continue to get what we settle for. What we accept, we teach. The big Hollywood studios are sitting on a trove of some the most exquisitely shot film ever run through a camera - natively lensed in wide 70mm, with more practical effects than opticals keeping them closer to first generation - so these Blu's of vintage roadshows should be jaw-dropping, and too many of them aren't.

[in2video2]

Originally Posted by Primal Sage

Things are actually starting to look quite good. They've finally managed to make a digital camera which is able to shoot digitally in a resolution equivalent to the quality of 35mm film. It's called Red One and shoots in 4k resolution (most digitally shot movies have been 2k). Since it's vastly cheaper to produce movies with this Compared to regular film, it will most likely dominate Hollywood in a few years time and replace 35mm in the majority of productions.

They have already made a 5k model though - the Red Epic. The upcoming The Hobbit movies, Avatar 2, Prometheus and many other big productions are currently shooting with it and 4k and 5k projectors are starting to appear in theaters.

I really look forward to see the boost in quality this will usher in. And I REALLY look forward to the next couple of iterations of Red Epic which they have announced: 7k and 9k. Effectively the return of 70mm film in theaters if the same evolution in theater projectors follows suit.

They are even talking about a 26k camera underway but that is probably still quite far away.

I am very glad we are having a very serous sharing of information here. One of the side-benefits of belonging here at Blu-Ray.com. This sounds quite interesting. Not to rain on everyone's parade but product does matter greatly over technical achievement so they should and must both be of quality. I can only hope we see Hollywood green lighting projects that encourage mass audience appeal to get them out of their cosy Home Entertainment cocoons to break out to join the real world out there and enjoy mass audience reaction to something worthwhile. I really want this to work. We all do. Hopefully the screens become larger, audiences rush out in larger numbers attracted to the spectacle and the substance that motivated audiences long ago. Thank you for encouraging us that our thoughts are also shared by the movie-making Industry as well.

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by whitesheik

There was nothing like it and the fact that basically it's done and never coming back is a real shame. I was obsessed with large format roadshows - I saw West Side Story over twenty times at the Chinese Theater - I just couldn't get enough. I'd already seen Ben-Hur and Exodus in 70mm - prior to that I think I'd only seen the roadshows in their 35mm releases - although I had seen Seven Wonders Of The World in Cinerama (amazing) and Windjammer. Oh, and Scent Of Mystery in 70mm and Smell-O-Vision, one of my fondest memories ever. But also King of Kings (multiple times) and Lawrence and The Sound Of Music - it was so incredible and so much better than 35mm, and in those days those shows were filled with that most lost of arts - showmanship. They really were events. And now I'll stop sounding like on old fogey!

I am too young to have been able to see any of these in their initial roadshow engagements but I have been to various festivals where more often than not there was this showmanship and excitement present that I don't get with todays movies anymore.

So no, you do Not sound like an old fogey but somebody who justifiably longs for the days when it was something special to go to the movies - how could that not be desirable today? Sadly both the showmanship AND the movies are mostly lacking these days when it comes to make going to the movies an event and not just watching a movie away from home.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Primal Sage

Things are actually starting to look quite good. They've finally managed to make a digital camera which is able to shoot digitally in a resolution equivalent to the quality of 35mm film. It's called Red One and shoots in 4k resolution (most digitally shot movies have been 2k). Since it's vastly cheaper to produce movies with this Compared to regular film, it will most likely dominate Hollywood in a few years time and replace 35mm in the majority of productions.

They have already made a 5k model though - the Red Epic...

First off, Red One’s effective resolution is only 3.2 – 3.3k (max).

Anyway, there’s a new kid on the block….or at least there will be, come January, namely the Sony F65. I think that if you are going to post in 4k, (which is what Red Epic filmmakers aspire to do and which is one part of Jim J’s public mantra) and which will be the gold standard for a loooong time into the foreseeable future, it’s best to supply the best quality 4k image (at least, when we’re talking about 2D filmmaking) and for that, one needs to do some homework concerning the overriding contributing significance of camera sensors to that end, for example…
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post5333270

So, I have absolutely no doubt that the F65 will have no problem in offering a comparable picture quality to the ‘5k’ Red Epic and, especially when you push both cameras under challenging shooting conditions, will most likely exceed the Epic’s PQ imagery, at least to the trained eye before color grading.

On the other hand, just to let you know that I’m not letting any possible Sony bias influence my position on these beyond HD acquisition devices, the Red Epic should probably out-perform the F65 for 3D filmmaking because when one shoots in 5k, among other things, for one, it should allow more options for the stereographer in post for depth grading sequences especially yielding more harmony between scenes, permit image stabilization with no cropping of the 4k frame, readily available compact 3D rigs from various manufacturers, etc.

[42041]

Originally Posted by Primal Sage

Things are actually starting to look quite good. They've finally managed to make a digital camera which is able to shoot digitally in a resolution equivalent to the quality of 35mm film. It's called Red One and shoots in 4k resolution (most digitally shot movies have been 2k). Since it's vastly cheaper to produce movies with this Compared to regular film, it will most likely dominate Hollywood in a few years time and replace 35mm in the majority of productions..

I fear the day when the Red's bland, lifeless color rendition dominates Hollywood At this point I'll happily take a 35mm print over 26k's worth of Red. Hopefully other digital cinema companies are more busy trying to improve things like latitude and colors than obsessing over the number of K's...

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by 42041

I fear the day when the Red's bland, lifeless color rendition dominates Hollywood At this point I'll happily take a 35mm print over 26k's worth of Red. Hopefully other digital cinema companies are more busy trying to improve things like latitude and colors than obsessing over the number of K's...

I think that getting to true 4k resolution should be a turning point at which the hunt for more resolution is not as important anymore because for most viewing environments we are approaching and surpassing the resolving capabilities of the human eye.

Let's hope that companies that work on digital cameras do also change their priorities accordingly.

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

First off, Red One’s effective resolution is only 3.2 – 3.3k (max).

Anyway, there’s a new kid on the block….or at least there will be, come January, namely the Sony F65. I think that if you are going to post in 4k, (which is what Red Epic filmmakers aspire to do and which is one part of Jim J’s public mantra) and which will be the gold standard for a loooong time into the foreseeable future, it’s best to supply the best quality 4k image (at least, when we’re talking about 2D filmmaking) and for that, one needs to do some homework concerning the overriding contributing significance of camera sensors to that end, for example…
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post5333270

So, I have absolutely no doubt that the F65 will have no problem in offering a comparable picture quality to the ‘5k’ Red Epic and, especially when you push both cameras under challenging shooting conditions, will most likely exceed the Epic’s PQ imagery, at least to the trained eye before color grading.

On the other hand, just to let you know that I’m not letting any possible Sony bias influence my position on these beyond HD acquisition devices, the Red Epic should probably out-perform the F65 for 3D filmmaking because when one shoots in 5k, among other things, for one, it should allow more options for the stereographer in post for depth grading sequences especially yielding more harmony between scenes, permit image stabilization with no cropping of the 4k frame, readily available compact 3D rigs from various manufacturers, etc.

Hey Penton-Man long time no write - large format related discussions are always the best, even if it is only for measly digital successors to our analog flagship formats

The F65 looks promising and like a nice alternative to the red lineup and I think that Super 35 sensor size is a step in the right direction. I just hope that all these "epic" resolutions will also be put to good use in an epic production or two, we do not see many of these anymore.

Speaking of 4k I am looking forward very much to the VW1000ES. I always was of the opinion that 4k is needed for the viewing distances that emulate a cinematic experience (around 1 screen width for scope). I hope I was right about that and I also hope that suitable software will be available sooner rather than later.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

Hey Penton-Man...

Yo Oliver ,
I thought all those fluent in German (including you) had left the forum. I really needed your services several weeks ago –
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post5333205

All I can tell you about epics, is I think the closest thing *epic-ish* coming out is Jim Cameron’s redo of Titanic. Most are familiar with his planned upcoming exhibition of the 2D -> 3D conversion of this motion picture but, for best results, this 3D project encouraged him to first remaster the film in 4k (and then do the conversion) and apparently the new 4k DCP (2D) version is planned to be shown in some selected venues also next year.

P.S.
b.t.w., to member ElliesDad, he/she is beautiful .

[retablo]

Originally Posted by Primal Sage

Things are actually starting to look quite good. They've finally managed to make a digital camera which is able to shoot digitally in a resolution equivalent to the quality of 35mm film. It's called Red One and shoots in 4k resolution (most digitally shot movies have been 2k). Since it's vastly cheaper to produce movies with this Compared to regular film, it will most likely dominate Hollywood in a few years time and replace 35mm in the majority of productions.

They have already made a 5k model though - the Red Epic. The upcoming The Hobbit movies, Avatar 2, Prometheus and many other big productions are currently shooting with it and 4k and 5k projectors are starting to appear in theaters.

I really look forward to see the boost in quality this will usher in. And I REALLY look forward to the next couple of iterations of Red Epic which they have announced: 7k and 9k. Effectively the return of 70mm film in theaters if the same evolution in theater projectors follows suit.

They are even talking about a 26k camera underway but that is probably still quite far away.

The RED One is not new. It's been used for years. So saying that most digital movies have been shot in 2K is not accurate.

Ironically, the sensor in the Canon 5Dmkii still camera (which shoots compressed 1080p video) is 40% larger than the Red One sensor.. and the Phantom 65 (with a 65mm digital sensor) is the largest. None of them have the latitude of film though.

And it's not necessarily cheaper to shoot digital. You still have to shoot exactly the same as you'd shoot a movie on film. What IS cheaper is digital projection... taking away the cost to make prints.

Don't forget the Canon C300... http://blog.abelcine.com/2011/11/03/...300-hd-camera/