1962 Mutiny on the Bounty in November 8 - Review up

[in2video2]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

I think a good part of the reason is that so many of these 70mm roadshow films - especially the ultra-wides - were so crudely panned and scanned and truncated to fit on VHS and DVD, that seeing them again full width complete with Overture, Intermission, Entre'Acte, and Exit music is a revelation...almost a new experience. Plus (and I can't underestimate the significance of this), there are at least a couple of generations now who have never even seen 'true' 70mm photography on screen...merely 35mm blow-ups. Except for IMAX documentaries, it's almost a lost form of exhibition.

What those 65mm native resolution frames had going for them is exactly the kind of rich colour and detail that high def fans crave on their 1080p monitors in2wideo2. So 70mm to Blu-ray, properly rescanned and remastered, is a perfect fit of content with medium. Production costs vs. expected returns are the only limiting factors in terms of properly restored high-def output.

Appreciate your continuing interest in 70mm 6-Track movie classics being restored and brought to Blu-Ray. If given the proper TLC these movies absolutely shine on Blu-Ray. We have our work cut out for us encouraging younger generations to discover these movies for themselves. If we continue supporting the movie studios they will renew their interest in investing in their respective legacies.

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by rvmeeker

Oliver, where it the world were were able to see MOTB theatrically in recent years? Lucky guy. Was it impressively presented?

As mentioned earlier, I too wish we could see a Ben Hur type treatment. But even if there is no video upgrade over the HD-DVD, the lossless audio provided by the BD should still be impressive and worthwhile.

I saw it at two dedicated 70mm festivals. Presentation quality was very nice one time and rather bad the other time and the prints that were used were far from perfect. BUT: When I put in my HD-DVD of the movie it was instantly visible that this was so far away from what I had seen on the big screen that I did not even want to watch my HD-DVD anymore!

I hear you about the audio, but imo it would be wrong for me to spend any money on this release just for the audio - the audio was fine before and the picture was only just OK back in 2006 so that is where the improvement would have to be. Until this happens there will be no sale from me, plenty of other movies that deserve my money more.

Of course if someone has to watch MOB I would wholeheartedly suggest a rental - it is the best version available on a home video format after all, but I strongly doubt one would use it for demo purposes or things like that, the quality just isn't there.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by in2video2

If given the proper TLC these movies absolutely shine on Blu-Ray. We have our work cut out for us encouraging younger generations to discover these movies for themselves. If we continue supporting the movie studios they will renew their interest in investing in their respective legacies.

I think the studios already know this in2video2, and it presents them with a very co$tly problem: all these dumps of former DVD and HD-DVD 'high-ish' rez masters to Blu-ray clearly aren't cutting it in the market. Most of that legacy-redux product continues to languish on shelves and routinely gets blown out in bargain bins everywhere for $10 bucks or less.

Those who are not passionate fans of vintage movies, or don't give a skiff about grain structure are simply content to stick with their DVD collector sets loaded with special features (especially when they learn that the special features on the Blu version - if any are offered at all - are exactly what they already have on DVD, in DVD rez yet!) And those who are more discerning about A/V quality, don't consider these legacy-redux Blu-ray dumps enough of an upgrade to warrant their support! So the studios are managing to miss both markets with lazily restamped and re-issued Blu-rays like Mutiny on the Bounty. The easy interpretation of such indifference to catalogue titles is that folks simply don't want old movies, or aren't willing to buy them again on Blu-ray. But how can the studios expect to sell a Blu-ray upgrade if there's no significant improvement? Well, they can't, and they aren't, and they won't. It's a catch-22, and a marketing dead-end.

In the midst of all this legacy-redux dumping to Blu-ray, the proof of what needs to be done is evident with every title rescanned at 4k, 6k, or 8k that gets snapped up day one, or as soon as word gets around. Those 'shoot the moon' quality Blu-ray editions are not only selling, and selling through, but also selling out, and for no other reason than they offer DVD-holdouts and Blu-ray mavens alike with a high quality video experience never before available on home video. So the answer is to go back to the vaults and plunk down some serious coin to truly deliver eye and ear popping Blu-ray product. Some Studios like Columbia/Sony and Fox have chosen to turn and run from this challenge, farming out their libraries to premium cottage labels such as Twilight Time. Others, like Universal and Warners, continue to shovel out the best 'high-ish' rez masters they've got...and the operative word there is "shovel."

Warners in particular has no excuse, because their own rescanned and remastered Blu-rays of Wizard of Oz, Citizen Kane, Ben Hur, and North by Northwest have been very successful. As has Criterion with its more esoteric library, and even Wal-Mart with its Blu-ray exclusives (how quickly did that 8k rescan of It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World sell-out?) If you give audiences a big enough carrot in terms of quality, there's plenty of evidence that they will continue to support the restoration and re-release of old movies on Blu. As noted previously, the 70mm widescreen roadshow era *should* offer particularly good high def opportunities because of the increased native resolution of those film formats.

Personally, I could live with even fewer vintage movies being redone on Blu-ray by the majors, as long as those projects are approached with considerably more care, quality, comprehensiveness, and respect for film history.

[ROclockCK]

I rest my case on those DVD Beaver screen caps. Although the Blu-ray frames were a bit smoother, they weren't significantly sharper. In 70mm, the ship's rigging...the distant forests and mountains...the actors' facial lines and hair...were all razor sharp. You felt like you were standing on those Tahitian beaches.

[Douglas R]

Seeing this in 70mm was an amazing, unforgettable experience. It's a shame the Blu-ray hasn't been given the restoration which it deserves. Nevertheless it will at least be the best version available so I will certainly buy it. I doubt that we will ever see anything better.

[CinemaScope]

Well DVDbeaver very much gives it the thumbs up, & the screencaps look great. I'm sure it would look a wee bit sharper if the original negs were scanned, but that's not going to happen, so my order is still in. If I could only accept a film looking the best it could ever look, then my DVD/Blu-ray collection would be down to about five discs.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by CinemaScope

Well DVDbeaver very much gives it the thumbs up, & the screencaps look great. I'm sure it would look a wee bit sharper if the original negs were scanned, but that's not going to happen, so my order is still in. If I could only accept a film looking the best it could ever look, then my DVD/Blu-ray collection would be down to about five discs.

Of course, CinemaScope, I've done the same thing. It's an odds call. However, posters like Oliver K are correct; the original 70mm Ultra Panavision Mutiny on the Bounty does not look just a "wee bit sharper"...it's a striking difference.

So back to my original point that whole generations now have never seen a properly projected native rez 70mm Hollywood film, and literally have no idea what they're missing. In fact, most studios count on this unfamiliarilty with the source when they release merely 'good' but not 'great' vintage titles. Just compare screen caps of Mutiny on the Bounty with Ben Hur - same camera system - the difference is immediate and obvious, even to the less discerning.

Sure, it's nice that Warners is keeping this title available, but it could have been so much more.

[Strevlac]

I love this movie. I've had the HD-DVD for about 4 years now and I've watched it probably 4 or 5 times and the transfer quality leaves a lot to be desired. Those bluray caps on DVD Beaver look pretty much just like the HD-DVD. Extremely smooth but not very sharp and lacking in actual detail. Look at Fletcher's jacket buttons fer chripes sake. Blurry. They were NOT like that in 70mm, I can vouch for that.

[Maggot]

Yea, the DVD Beaver screenshots look jaw dropping. Like the Ten Commandments, Ben Hur, It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World before it, this is how a large stock film should look. Seriously, those shots just jump off the page. Day one for me!

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by Strevlac

I love this movie. I've had the HD-DVD for about 4 years now and I've watched it probably 4 or 5 times and the transfer quality leaves a lot to be desired. Those bluray caps on DVD Beaver look pretty much just like the HD-DVD. Extremely smooth but not very sharp and lacking in actual detail. Look at Fletcher's jacket buttons fer chripes sake. Blurry. They were NOT like that in 70mm, I can vouch for that.

I have to respectfully dissagree.....

[Oliver K]

Maggot, unfortunately the Blu-Ray is not representative of what Mutiny on the Bounty could look like on Blu-Ray if it had gotten the care that was afforded the other titles you mentioned. With the Ben Hur negative obviously having been in less than optimum shape I am pretty sure MoB could have looked better than Ben Hur at a much lower cost but sadly not much seems to have been done for MoB since 2005 or 2006.

Obviously that does not mean you are not allowed to like how it looks. This is one of the best looking 65mm production so the superior photography will also shine through with a lesser effort to bring this to Blu-Ray.

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by Maggot

I have to respectfully dissagree.....

Maggot, turn off the initial "wow that is pretty" reaction and look at the captures closely and critically (and in 1080). The picture is soft, and not in a filmic soft sort of way. Soft in a video sort of way. Like Patton only not as bad.

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

This is one of the best looking 65mm production so the superior photography will also shine through with a lesser effort to bring this to Blu-Ray.

Yeah, the photography and the locations are so beautiful that most people are going to be fooled into thinking this is actually a good transfer.

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by Strevlac

Maggot, turn off the initial "wow that is pretty" reaction and look at the captures closely and critically (and in 1080). The picture is soft, and not in a filmic soft sort of way. Soft in a video sort of way. Like Patton only not as bad.

Nothing to turn off......perhaps I have better eyes then you.

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by Maggot

Nothing to turn off......perhaps I have better eyes then you.

Than. Better eyes than you.

And no, that is not what is going on here. It's not a top-quality modern transfer. Simple as that.

[whitesheik]

I don't know how many times it needs to be said, but I'm glad to be the one to say it for the umpteenth time - I'm not yelling it but I'm putting it in caps for emphasis: YOU CANNOT GO BY ANY SCREENCAPS AT DVD BEAVER. They are never representative of what the transfer looks like. Period. And yet people keep on keeping on - it's amazing to me.

I know it's radical, but I will reserve judgment on this until I see it. I will not judge it until then. I saw this film over ten times during its initial 70mm roadshow release. I thought the DVD was a travesty - nice color but completely soft verging on being out of focus. I've been told by one who HAS seen the Blu-ray that it's a big step up from that and he doesn't know whether it's the same exact transfer as the HD-DVD version but says it's definitely a new encode, for whatever that's worth. It's never good to rush to judgment, The Ten Commandments and Breakfast at Tiffany's being perfect examples of rush to judgments being completely erroneous and more importantly harmful with people canceling orders left and right only to ultimately find that these are two of the best transfers ever done.

Not saying that's the case here, but I'll reserve judgment until I see it. I've always loved the film, and yes, in 70mm, like ALL 70mm films back then, it was jaw-dropping in sharpness and clarity and that's what it should look like on Blu-ray. But Blu-ray can NEVER replicate what it's like to see a film like this in 70mm - it's just not possible. The only optimal way to see a 70mm film is with a proper print in a proper theater that is equipped to project it optimally.

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by whitesheik

I don't know how many times it needs to be said, but I'm glad to be the one to say it for the umpteenth time - I'm not yelling it but I'm putting it in caps for emphasis: YOU CANNOT GO BY ANY SCREENCAPS AT DVD BEAVER. They are never representative of what the transfer looks like. Period. And yet people keep on keeping on - it's amazing to me.

I know it's radical, but I will reserve judgment on this until I see it. I will not judge it until then. I saw this film over ten times during its initial 70mm roadshow release. I thought the DVD was a travesty - nice color but completely soft verging on being out of focus. I've been told by one who HAS seen the Blu-ray that it's a big step up from that and he doesn't know whether it's the same exact transfer as the HD-DVD version but says it's definitely a new encode, for whatever that's worth. It's never good to rush to judgment, The Ten Commandments and Breakfast at Tiffany's being perfect examples of rush to judgments being completely erroneous and more importantly harmful with people canceling orders left and right only to ultimately find that these are two of the best transfers ever done.

Not saying that's the case here, but I'll reserve judgment until I see it. I've always loved the film, and yes, in 70mm, like ALL 70mm films back then, it was jaw-dropping in sharpness and clarity and that's what it should look like on Blu-ray. But Blu-ray can NEVER replicate what it's like to see a film like this in 70mm - it's just not possible. The only optimal way to see a 70mm film is with a proper print in a proper theater that is equipped to project it optimally.

The caps are so soft it cannot be explained with the usual DVD Beaver filtering. Certainly a new encode as the HD-DVD has a video bitrate that was ridiculous, around 10 I think. Still very soft looking when one compares to the Beaver caps of Ben Hur or TTC or IAMMMMW or others.

I have it on my rental list anyway so that I can have a look once it is out here, I still want this to look better

And I would like to add that I envy you for having been able to enjoy those movies in the theater back in the days - must have been a sight to behold to see those colors in all their glory!

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by whitesheik

I don't know how many times it needs to be said, but I'm glad to be the one to say it for the umpteenth time - I'm not yelling it but I'm putting it in caps for emphasis: YOU CANNOT GO BY ANY SCREENCAPS AT DVD BEAVER. They are never representative of what the transfer looks like. Period. And yet people keep on keeping on - it's amazing to me.

I know it's radical, but I will reserve judgment on this until I see it. I will not judge it until then. I saw this film over ten times during its initial 70mm roadshow release. I thought the DVD was a travesty - nice color but completely soft verging on being out of focus. I've been told by one who HAS seen the Blu-ray that it's a big step up from that and he doesn't know whether it's the same exact transfer as the HD-DVD version but says it's definitely a new encode, for whatever that's worth. It's never good to rush to judgment, The Ten Commandments and Breakfast at Tiffany's being perfect examples of rush to judgments being completely erroneous and more importantly harmful with people canceling orders left and right only to ultimately find that these are two of the best transfers ever done.

Not saying that's the case here, but I'll reserve judgment until I see it. I've always loved the film, and yes, in 70mm, like ALL 70mm films back then, it was jaw-dropping in sharpness and clarity and that's what it should look like on Blu-ray. But Blu-ray can NEVER replicate what it's like to see a film like this in 70mm - it's just not possible. The only optimal way to see a 70mm film is with a proper print in a proper theater that is equipped to project it optimally.

I agree regarding caps from DVD beaver....all I am saying is that those caps look like the HD-DVD which, as I stated earlier, is less than optimal. Nice color, but not sharp.

[whitesheik]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

The caps are so soft it cannot be explained with the usual DVD Beaver filtering. Certainly a new encode as the HD-DVD has a video bitrate that was ridiculous, around 10 I think. Still very soft looking when one compares to the Beaver caps of Ben Hur or TTC or IAMMMMW or others.

I have it on my rental list anyway so that I can have a look once it is out here, I still want this to look better

And I would like to add that I envy you for having been able to enjoy those movies in the theater back in the days - must have been a sight to behold to see those colors in all their glory!

There was nothing like it and the fact that basically it's done and never coming back is a real shame. I was obsessed with large format roadshows - I saw West Side Story over twenty times at the Chinese Theater - I just couldn't get enough. I'd already seen Ben-Hur and Exodus in 70mm - prior to that I think I'd only seen the roadshows in their 35mm releases - although I had seen Seven Wonders Of The World in Cinerama (amazing) and Windjammer. Oh, and Scent Of Mystery in 70mm and Smell-O-Vision, one of my fondest memories ever. But also King of Kings (multiple times) and Lawrence and The Sound Of Music - it was so incredible and so much better than 35mm, and in those days those shows were filled with that most lost of arts - showmanship. They really were events. And now I'll stop sounding like on old fogey!

[whitesheik]

Originally Posted by Strevlac

I agree regarding caps from DVD beaver....all I am saying is that those caps look like the HD-DVD which, as I stated earlier, is less than optimal. Nice color, but not sharp.

I'm just hoping for the best, as I tend to be a positive sort - but you know I will call it as I see it, especially with a film I know very well.