HDR Discussion Thread

[Geoff D]

Well done you.

[raptordave]

When I purchase a 4K movie and it has an HDR sticker on the cellophane wrapper but not on the actual disc package, versa a sticker on the disc package not on the cellophane, these are 2 different renditions of HDR, aren't they???

So, I purchased a movie X-Men that's supposed to be coded with HDR, but I know the technology didn't exist when the film was made, so can the HDR be added after the fact???
My diagnoses says "NO" I can't hear anything in the movie that would lead me to believe that there's some sort of HDR coding in it.

But if I purchase a 4K movie Point Break "with" the HDR sticker on the actual package, not the cellophane, I can defiantly hear the difference, I'm correct, aren't I???

[raptordave]

Ok, I read a little more on it and all that did was confuse me even more.

[PaulGo]

Originally Posted by raptordave

But if I purchase a 4K movie Point Break "with" the HDR sticker on the actual package, not the cellophane, I can defiantly hear the difference, I'm correct, aren't I???

After doing some research it appears the best way to do an HDR movie is with a special camera.

Modern movies have often been filmed with cameras featuring a higher dynamic range, and legacy movies can be upgraded even if manual intervention would be needed for some frames (as when old black-and-white films are upgraded to color). Also, special effects, especially those in which real and synthetic footage are seamlessly mixed, require both HDR shooting and rendering. HDR video is also needed in applications that demand high accuracy for capturing temporal aspects of changes in the scene. This is important in monitoring of some industrial processes such as welding, in predictive driver assistance systems in automotive industry, in surveillance video systems, and other applications. HDR video can be also considered to speed image acquisition in applications that need a large number of static HDR images are, for example in image-based methods in computer graphics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-dynamic-range_video

In post production the dynamic range of brightness / color changed to levels for a standard (SDR) Blu-ray. When a movie is shot several version need to be made - a version for movie theaters (possibly more that one depending upon the type of projection system), one for Blu-ray and another one for 4K HDR.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'm fully aware of 10-bit still being a thing in post: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...9#post13617049

Not bad , playback and work on OpenEXR files (http://www.openexr.com/) in real time using ACES without getting any bandwidth hits in some facilities is still a struggle because they are engineered for 10bit (DPX).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Quietly in the works….HDR broadcast production test to capture and display thee upcoming Blue Crew vs. the Giants battle next Fri.-Sat. at Chavez Ravine

As in July 28-29.

Note to Angelinos who might be attending -

Wear a color bars test signal fresh T-shirt, something like so -
http://www.live-tees.com/view/64692/...e-test-t-shirt

post here what section of the stadium you’ll be sitting in (closer to the field the better) and, within reason, just maybe the camera operator might capture your presence.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

When a movie is shot several version need to be made -

Not only that, I think people would be surprised to learn how much work is dedicated to serving the cultural and language nuances of the international market, e.g. close to 7,500 additional shots were created by Pixar for the international versions of Cars 3.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by raptordave

I know the technology didn't exist when the film was made, so can the HDR be added after the fact?

Film naturally has had a higher dynamic range in the negative than the video transfers made up until now. You don't need to artificially boost anything to have higher dynamic range than standard Blu-ray.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Film naturally has had a higher dynamic range in the negative than the video transfers made up until now. You don't need to artificially boost anything to have higher dynamic range than standard Blu-ray.

Yeah, but the studios are handling it differently. Warner and Sony for example seem to be going for a film-like look and only expanding the range to match that. Universal and Fox on the other hand seem to use more HDR pop and such, like a newer movie would. Stuff like King Kong, The Mummy and ID4 look so good though I don't think I care anymore.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But when it comes to what Yedlin was trying to say about the pixel race then I can respect that for what it is, given how some people really do just focus on sheer numbers alone rather than what the end result looks like. We see the same shit day in, day out on this forum relating to 2K upscaled UHD.

I understand, but I tend to stick to only a few threads here, no time for more. FYI, at the ASC last fall...



Steve actually presented much of his assertions that the selection of scaling algorithm has more impact on the perceptual experience than some people might have assumed and I guess I could have posted something about it back then, but as you can see I’ve become more involved with HDR and HDR+HFR and it really wasn’t any news to me. Plus, I felt the whole thing was somewhat disparaging and targeting the Netflix folks some of whom I admire and are friends with.

I’d like to see Steve revisit this topic in a comparative review in years to come when we get LARGE rollable OLED screens (https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-t...ands-on-video/) for home viewing at common viewing angles if current viewing distances remain the same - http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/publications/whitepaper287 and see if there are any regrets to 6K->2K->4K as opposed to 6K->4K, period.

P.S.
To be clear, earlier I wasn’t ignoring the 2nd half of your post at the top of the page, rather I delayed in replying because I didn’t have the time and needed to find the digital trends and bbc links as above. Plus, I became more interested in checking if Peter knew something about a recent England team soccer match (and the subsequent fan reactions to) that I knew absolutely nothing about or if he was making a generic retrospective comment.

[Penton-Man]

Note to PaulGo , if not others, I hope at least you watched msnbc (Rach -> Brian Williams) tonight.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I see that now from your location (Birmingham). That would be a big commitment by you or anyone else for that matter when eventually the newest shootout will probably be covered later in articles on the net anyway.

I'm sure I'd find it very interesting, and it would be great to meet people such as Vincent who is rapidly becoming a YouTube star(!), but yeah it's a long way. Unfortunately that London place has a high population spike so becomes the de facto centre of gravity for everything, even though geographically it's stupid for everyone else to get to. Somewhere central would make more sense, but the Londoners have the numbers and the loudest voices!
Look forward to reading the reports of course!

[raptordave]

Originally Posted by raptordave

When I purchase a 4K movie and it has an HDR sticker on the cellophane wrapper but not on the actual disc package, versa a sticker on the disc package not on the cellophane, these are 2 different renditions of HDR, aren't they???

So, I purchased a movie X-Men that's supposed to be coded with HDR, but I know the technology didn't exist when the film was made, so can the HDR be added after the fact???
My diagnoses says "NO" I can't hear anything in the movie that would lead me to believe that there's some sort of HDR coding in it.

But if I purchase a 4K movie Point Break "with" the HDR sticker on the actual package, not the cellophane, I can defiantly hear the difference, I'm correct, aren't I???

So I'm not quite sure, can HDR accurately be added to an older film to emulate the current films that already use 4K and HDR for all their content? I seem to find a significant difference between a movie shot in HDR than a movie rendered with HDR, am I getting this right.
So if I'm right, the HDR sticker on the cellophane is a dead giveaway as to what your getting when it comes to HDR content???

[puddy77]

Originally Posted by raptordave

So I'm not quite sure, can HDR accurately be added to an older film to emulate the current films that already use 4K and HDR for all their content? I seem to find a significant difference between a movie shot in HDR than a movie rendered with HDR, am I getting this right.
So if I'm right, the HDR sticker on the cellophane is a dead giveaway as to what your getting when it comes to HDR content???

The large majority of films released on UHD blu-ray have HDR whether or not they have a sticker. There are only a handful of movies without it. Off the top of my head, the couple Broad Green Pictures movies, a few Imax docs, and a couple German catalog releases.

There is no such thing as shooting in HDR. Films are shot the same way as they have always been. And they can then choose to grade in HDR, or go back and remaster an old title in HDR. All older films can be remastered in HDR. It's just that movies shot on film may have a little less dynamic range than films shot digitally. But they all have the potential for more dynamic range and color than SDR blu-rays. We already have quite a few older films on UHD blu-ray with HDR. Some are more subdued. But others have a dramatic increase in dynamic range and color.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

P.S.
To be clear, earlier I wasn’t ignoring the 2nd half of your post at the top of the page, rather I delayed in replying because I didn’t have the time and needed to find the digital trends and bbc links as above. Plus, I became more interested in checking if Peter knew something about a recent England team soccer match (and the subsequent fan reactions to) that I knew absolutely nothing about or if he was making a generic retrospective comment.

Nah, he was just stirring shit re: footy as per usual.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by puddy77

The large majority of films released on UHD blu-ray have HDR whether or not they have a sticker. There are only a handful of movies without it. Off the top of my head, the couple Broad Green Pictures movies, a few Imax docs, and a couple German catalog releases.

There is no such thing as shooting in HDR. Films are shot the same way as they have always been. And they can then choose to grade in HDR, or go back and remaster an old title in HDR. All older films can be remastered in HDR. It's just that movies shot on film may have a little less dynamic range than films shot digitally. But they all have the potential for more dynamic range and color than SDR blu-rays. We already have quite a few older films on UHD blu-ray with HDR. Some are more subdued. But others have a dramatic increase in dynamic range and color.

All true, except I feel I should add a small caveat to the statement in your post which I bolded above because some may interpret that as an absolute rather than applicable to feature films and high end cine cameras. Recall - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post13878705 and the post below it.

Two Sony model cameras now have in-camera HLG support, in essence they do shoot directly in HDR, HLG..which give you all of the dynamic range from that without requiring an extensive color grade and you can just play that out on a compatible Sony Bravia TV (I haven't tried out that aspect personally yet with the camera and TV) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf3NKFfv6kg#t=2m30s

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Nah, he was just stirring shit re: footy as per usual.

Even though Peter is not a soccer nut like us, he is still a human being at the end of the day, so fair play to his analogies to keep us on our toes, plus he makes me happy/grin sometimes with his elegant analysis of cabooses in a thread that even Club Penton (https://forum.blu-ray.com/forumdisplay.php?f=61) couldn’t achieve in viewership millions.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

All true, except I feel I should add a small caveat to the statement in your post which I bolded above because some may interpret that as an absolute rather than applicable to feature films and high end cine cameras. Recall - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post13878705 and the post below it.

Two Sony model cameras now have in-camera HLG support, in essence they do shoot directly in HDR, HLG..which give you all of the dynamic range from that without requiring an extensive color grade and you can just play that out on a compatible Sony Bravia TV (I haven't tried out that aspect personally yet with the camera and TV) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf3NKFfv6kg#t=2m30s

Yes, so in essence the camera acquisition hasn't changed in terms of what's hitting the sensor and how the sensor itself reacts to that, but the camera is able to apply a particular image transform to that footage (S-Log, HLG etc) so people can broadly gauge how it actually *looks* in their chosen format there and then.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Even though Peter is not a soccer nut like us, he is still a human being at the end of the day, so fair play to his analogies to keep us on our toes, plus he makes me happy/grin sometimes with his elegant analysis of cabooses in a thread that even Club Penton (https://forum.blu-ray.com/forumdisplay.php?f=61) couldn’t achieve in viewership millions.

Are you quoting my own little homilies back to me?

[Penton-Man]

Plus,

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

shoot directly in HDR, HLG..

even in 4K rez which is quite astonishing, for those in the know about these cameras, given the bit depth of the codec when in 4K HLG shooting mode as opposed to the HD HLG shooting mode.

Food for thought.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Are you quoting my own little homilies back to me?

Yup