Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[chip75]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

It seems, again unlike the OPPO and Cambridge, the Panasonics don't have built-in storage dump capabilities, so if you want to erase BD-Vide data, you have to apparently do it through a USB drive...but I don't understand how this works, as my aforementioned OPPO BDP-83 and Cambridge CXUHD both had the built-in Persistent Storage erase capability. How do I "add" persistent storage to the Panasonic?

You need a 1GB USB drive connected to use BD-Live, as far as I know, "BD-Video Data Erase" erases that data. It doesn't concern any resume data or player data, that's on the Panasonic's limited memory.

The CXUHD has the option of internal flash memory or external USB memory. To add persistent storage to the Panasonic you need a 1GB USB drive connected. I think thumb-drives are recognized in the front, but anything that requires more oomph needs to be plugged in the back. But that's only used for B-Live and Bonus View content.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by chip75

You need a 1GB USB drive connected to use BD-Live, as far as I know, "BD-Video Data Erase" erases that data. It doesn't concern any resume data or player data, that's on the Panasonic's limited memory.

The CXUHD has the option of internal flash memory or external USB memory. To add persistent storage to the Panasonic you need a 1GB USB drive connected. I think thumb-drives are recognized in the front, but anything that requires more oomph needs to be plugged in the back. But that's only used for B-Live and Bonus View content.

Thanks for this explanation, Chip; so I don't have to worry about adding memory for, say, resume playback on those titles like from Disney or Universal which prompt the "Resume: Yes/No?" message, correct?

[chip75]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Thanks for this explanation, Chip; so I don't have to worry about adding memory for, say, resume playback on those titles like from Disney or Universal which prompt the "Resume: Yes/No?" message, correct?

No, I don't think it would enhance those features.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by chip75

No, I don't think it would enhance those features.

What's weird is, with my previous CXUHD and BDP-83, I regularly erased the persistent storage because I thought this was where memory was being stored for things like the discs I resumed playback on; I assumed this was "clogging up" the player's memory buffer, so I regularly dumped it...

Are you saying these persistent storage platforms AREN'T for storing data like playback resume points?

[chip75]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Are you saying these persistent storage platforms AREN'T for storing data like playback resume points?

I'm not 100%, but you could experiment by stopping a disc and deleting the storage. I know the USB storage doesn't hold any resume points with my 420, as I don't have any connected.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by chip75

I'm not 100%, but you could experiment by stopping a disc and deleting the storage. I know the USB storage doesn't hold any resume points with my 420, as I don't have any connected.

But I can't delete the storage on the 9000 by simply accessing the "Erase BD-Video Memory" menu, as it asks to connect a USB drive to the port.

I was saying that in the past, with the OPPO and Cambridge units, there was an option in the setup menu for "Persistent Storage," and this allowed you to dump "built up" data in the player; when I used to dump this regularly, it seemed to also erase any resume playback points from discs that were previously loaded...

That's why I had asked if emptying a thing like persistent storage would also affect resume playback points, as you suggested it doesn't.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

But I can't delete the storage on the 9000 by simply accessing the "Erase BD-Video Memory" menu, as it asks to connect a USB drive to the port.

Then that confirms USB storage doesn't affect the resume functions.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by chip75

Then that confirms USB storage doesn't affect the resume functions.

Alright; well, the storage thing isn't that important to me anyway, so however it works is however it works. I don't use any BD-Live or related content, so not having onboard memory storage isn't a concern for me, really, save for the aforementioned resume playback protocols.

Thanks for your assistance here.

I believe I replied to your PMs, as well; if not, I shall do so soon.

[IntelliVolume]

Interestingly, I stumbled across this as contributed in AVS' dedicated thread for the Pioneer LX500:
__________________________________________________ ______________________________
The UB9000's SD upscaling is questionable. Unlike 1080p and 4K, its 480i chroma upsampling is atrocious; CUE test patterns look like flags waving in the wind and the blue lines in vertical chroma burst patterns disappear completely. I have no idea why. The LX500 is much better in this regard. DVDs, if you still have any, aren't the UB9000's strong suit.

As it turns out, my display handles SD content better than either player, with near-perfect chroma upsampling and excellent deinterlacing, so my preference is to send 480i to the display untouched. The LX500 makes this easy, either by using Source Direct or flipping through resolution options on the remote. The UB9000 has no Source Direct option and you can only change resolutions via the setup menu on the home screen. Inconvenient to say the least, especially considering its terrible handling of DVDs. Since my display handles 480i the best and its 1080i/1080p processing is about equal to the UB9000 (including very good chroma upsampling), I like using Source Direct on the LX500.

The disc drawer on the LX500 is nice It opens and closes smoothly and satisfyingly, which gives the player a luxury feel. The drawer on the UB9000 makes a grinding noise like it has sand stuck in the mechanism; I'm told it's normal for this player. Both players are generally built like tanks, though.
__________________________________________________ ______________________

This confirms for me what I've been seeing with DVD upconversion using the 9000, save for the rich, saturated, HD-like colors and some other positive elements -- the player, like historically typical Panasonic Blu-ray units since the advent of the BD10/10A model(s), just can't do DVD upconversion without adding some kind of damn artifacting. I keep seeing it, too, the more I look for it; threw in our DVD of Divergent last night and a couple of the trailers on the disc were RIDDLED with aggressive, jumpy, aliasing-like artifacts on characters' clothing and shots of rooftops on houses. The feature itself looked okay, but did have some moments of twitchy "artifacting" that did not appear on other players I've run this on.

As for the comments I highlighted in bold regarding the 9000's disc drawer sound -- I find the exact same thing with mine. The drawer, while smooth upon locking in and closing and silent when in operation, exhibits a strange grinding noise that indeed sounds like "sand is caught in the mechanism," as the AVS member noted, as it slides in and out. I wouldn't have expected this for the price, but perhaps, as was said, this is "normal" for this model.

Any other 9000 owners experience the not-so-silent-when-opening-and-closing disc tray?

[chip75]

With regards to the Atmos issue I was having a few days ago, is there any indication with the player that it's outputting Atmos, or will PLAYBACK INFO just indicate TrueHD and we select Atmos through the AVR?

At the moment my AVR doesn't show the individual channels in the input section, if I select Atmos it just says "Dolby Atmos", but the output shows extra speakers being used. I guess I'm asking if that's pseudo Atmos or not.

[IntelliVolume]

Chip,

Don't you own the 420?

[chip75]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Chip,

Don't you own the 420?

I do, there shouldn't be any difference with Atmos playback.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by chip75

I do, there shouldn't be any difference with Atmos playback.

I see; wish I could help, but I haven't yet ventured into the world of 4K-compliant AVRs and Dolby Atmos/DTS:X....

[Member-425016]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Unfortunately this still doesn't clear things up, Film -- I don't understand how your unit is allowing you to play discs back where they left off if the manual clearly states no resume playback is possible if a disc is ejected. Are you referring to discs from studios like Fox or Disney/Marvel where the "RESUME: YES/NO" is authored into the title for the next time you put the film on? If so, again, I'm not referring to those -- I am talking about titles from studios like Warner Bros., which in the past with my Oppo and Cambridge players, would allow you to pick up where you left off just by hitting the STOP button on the remote once before ejecting....

I tried some Shout Factory BD titles earlier, and they didn't give the option to pick up where I left off. So it is confirmed the resume feature doesn't work on every BD title. Something I didn't know until all this talk about the issue arose.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by Filmfan73

I tried some Shout Factory BD titles earlier, and they didn't give the option to pick up where I left off. So it is confirmed the resume feature doesn't work on every BD title. Something I didn't know until all this talk about the issue arose.

Thanks for checking on this; indeed, I brought it up because there are little things about this unit that are bothering me compared to the Cambridge I previously used (which in itself was basically an OPPO 203), and figured I'd share as I went along.

Yeah, the Shout/Scream Factory Blu-rays NEVER allowed for resume playback in the past on any of my players; this is one of the studios that don't have this feature baked into the authoring of their discs. But this is precisely why I brought up Warner Bros. titles, as these always -- from The Dark Knight on down to recent releases -- allowed me to press STOP on the remote, eject the disc and then resume playback the next day from the exact same spot.

There ARE some studios, however, that just didn't author their discs so that this is possible, and I accept that; it was ones that I KNEW had resumed before that I was concerned with on the UB9000.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Unfortunately this still doesn't clear things up, Film -- I don't understand how your unit is allowing you to play discs back where they left off if the manual clearly states no resume playback is possible if a disc is ejected. Are you referring to discs from studios like Fox or Disney/Marvel where the "RESUME: YES/NO" is authored into the title for the next time you put the film on? If so, again, I'm not referring to those -- I am talking about titles from studios like Warner Bros., which in the past with my Oppo and Cambridge players, would allow you to pick up where you left off just by hitting the STOP button on the remote once before ejecting...

I don't understand why some members here are saying their 9000 DOES allow for this while others are saying it definitely does not enable resume play after a disc has been ejected.

I'll answer this one rather than the post you replied to me with, if that's okay?

I too remember that some Warners discs just literally restarted from where they left off but AFAIK those are much older discs without BD-J which is what allows the player to store its own resume point. I think some people in here (not you) are conflating those for the modern disc-led "resume Yes/No" function of latter-day Warners discs which is where the confusion is coming from.

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Interestingly, I stumbled across this as contributed in AVS' dedicated thread for the Pioneer LX500:
__________________________________________________ ______________________________
[I]The UB9000's SD upscaling is questionable. Unlike 1080p and 4K, its 480i chroma upsampling is atrocious; CUE test patterns look like flags waving in the wind and the blue lines in vertical chroma burst patterns disappear completely. I have no idea why. The LX500 is much better in this regard. DVDs, if you still have any, aren't the UB9000's strong suit.
__________________________________________________ ______________________

This confirms for me what I've been seeing with DVD upconversion using the 9000, save for the rich, saturated, HD-like colors and some other positive elements -- the player, like historically typical Panasonic Blu-ray units since the advent of the BD10/10A model(s), just can't do DVD upconversion without adding some kind of damn artifacting. I keep seeing it, too, the more I look for it; threw in our DVD of Divergent last night and a couple of the trailers on the disc were RIDDLED with aggressive, jumpy, aliasing-like artifacts on characters' clothing and shots of rooftops on houses. The feature itself looked okay, but did have some moments of twitchy "artifacting" that did not appear on other players I've run this on.

I've mentioned how poor the 480i disc playback is on these Pannys several times in various threads, I also noticed that exact same oddness going on with the standard-def CUE patterns on Spears & Munsil, e.g. I posted this two years ago regarding the UB900 (two zeroes ) and nothing much has changed since:

Originally Posted by Geoff D

elway, do me a favour. One of the reasons why I jumped ship from the Panny to, ah, another brand (the name of which I shan't utter here) was that the Panny's playback of 480i material (irrespective of output resolution) was completely ****ed. It's really weird and jagged, like it's missing alternate lines or something.

Could you please check the SD Evaluation test patterns, namely the CUE 24 and the Chroma Multiburst, on your 200?


I get this on my Panny UB900 with the SD CUE 24pf pattern, note that the diagonals are all jagged and nasty and the multiburst is all one colour

[Show spoiler]

This on my [redacted], much smoother diagonals with the correct upsampling in the bursts:

[Show spoiler]

I get this on my Panny with the SD Chroma Multiburst, the 240-line burst is one solid colour (showing the opposite of the multiburst in the CUE 24, all blue instead of all red)

[Show spoiler]

I get this on my [redacted], the multiburst shows both colours as it should

[Show spoiler]

I did a 'real world' comparison between the 420 and the OPPO 203 in another thread, the OPPO's DVD upscaling is way cleaner than the 420 but I found that Source Direct from the OPPO (squirting 480i directly into my TV) looked better than either playing doing the upscaling itself. Unfortunately there's no Source Direct option on the 4K Pannys.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Example photos here, this is the menu from the old NTSC 'flipper' DVD of Robin Hood Prince o' Thieves being upscaled directly into 4K by the players. Top is Panny 420, bottom is OPPO 203, the images have already been embiggened for emphasis but 'click to view full size' and then look at the lettering. On the Panny the rounder yellow letters ('e's and 'o's) look more jagged rather than the smoother contours of the OPPO, and they have better defined vertical edges too on the OPPO whereas the Panny really starts to bleed over, like on the 'r' at the end of 'Teaser'. And look at the tops of the white letters, like the capital 'H' and 'T', there's clearly some ringing there that's not on the OPPO equivalent. Moving content isn't a still-frame menu, granted, but NTSC stuff really does have a 'bittier' feel even in motion on the UK Panny.

Panasonic 420




OPPO 203

But FWIW I've never had a problem like this with 480i DVD playback on the Pannys before the 4K models, and I've owned various ones that used the Uniphier chip like the BDT110, 210, 310, 220, the amazing little slot-fed BBT01 (which I should never have sold). The 310 is what I currently have and I can categorically state that the DVD playback kicks the ass of the 820, as both the test patterns and real world content lose the jagged-ass look of the 4K Panny decks. The 310 also has internal aspect ratio control so it can 'zoom' non-anamorphic widescreen discs whereas Panasonic junked all that for the 4K decks.

[Member-425016]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'll answer this one rather than the post you replied to me with, if that's okay?

I too remember that some Warners discs just literally restarted from where they left off but AFAIK those are much older discs without BD-J which is what allows the player to store its own resume point. I think some people in here (not you) are conflating those for the modern disc-led "resume Yes/No" function of latter-day Warners discs which is where the confusion is coming from.


I've mentioned how poor the 480i disc playback is on these Pannys several times in various threads, I also noticed that exact same oddness going on with the standard-def CUE patterns on Spears & Munsil, e.g. I posted this two years ago regarding the UB900 (two zeroes ) and nothing much has changed since:



I did a 'real world' comparison between the 420 and the OPPO 203 in another thread, the OPPO's DVD upscaling is way cleaner than the 420 but I found that Source Direct from the OPPO (squirting 480i directly into my TV) looked better than either playing doing the upscaling itself. Unfortunately there's no Source Direct option on the 4K Pannys.



But FWIW I've never had a problem like this with 480i DVD playback on the Pannys before the 4K models, and I've owned various ones that used the Uniphier chip like the BDT110, 210, 310, 220, the amazing little slot-fed BBT01 (which I should never have sold). The 310 is what I currently have and I can categorically state that the DVD playback kicks the ass of the 820, as both the test patterns and real world content lose the jagged-ass look of the 4K Panny decks. The 310 also has internal aspect ratio control so it can 'zoom' non-anamorphic widescreen discs whereas Panasonic junked all that for the 4K decks.

So how is the up conversion of the Oppo UDP-205? compared to the Panasonic 9000? Since My TV isn't known for its upconverting capability like the Samsung 8K models (And some 4K).

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Filmfan73

So how is the up conversion of the Oppo UDP-205? compared to the Panasonic 9000? Since My TV isn't known for its upconverting capability like the Samsung 8K models (And some 4K).

The same accurate upscaling. see OPPO UDP-205 4K Ultra HD Audiophile Blu-ray Disc Player Review - hometheaterhifi.com - Mike Osadciw/John E. Johnson, Jr -5/31/17

The closest player to the 205 currently is the Pioneer LX-800 not sold in the states, no multi-ch analog (UB9000 has that), no full featured DAC with inputs, no headphone amp comparably. Currently that was thought as selling for $2200. (previous BD player LX-88 sold for $2000). Per the link you can also see that hometheaterhifi.com reviews the Panasonic UB9000 also for your reading pleasure.

Now back to the topic.

[danny24]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

The same accurate upscaling. see OPPO UDP-205 4K Ultra HD Audiophile Blu-ray Disc Player Review - hometheaterhifi.com - Mike Osadciw/John E. Johnson, Jr -5/31/17

The closest player to the 205 currently is the Pioneer LX-800 not sold in the states, no multi-ch analog (UB9000 has that), no full featured DAC with inputs, non headphone amp comparably. Currently that was thought as selling for $2200. (previous BD player LX-88 sold for $2000). Per the link you can also see that hometheaterhifi.com reviews the Panasonic UB9000 also for your reading pleasure.

Trying to get a region free LX800 makes even the second hand prices for the Oppo 205 look like a better deal.

I did see a Region A version of the LX800 on AVSforum:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-b...l#post57034510

Looks like the Japanese version.

That player though such a beauty!

Hoping Pioneer one day makes a USA version available, even if it's limited.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'll answer this one rather than the post you replied to me with, if that's okay?

That's fine.

I too remember that some Warners discs just literally restarted from where they left off but AFAIK those are much older discs without BD-J which is what allows the player to store its own resume point. I think some people in here (not you) are conflating those for the modern disc-led "resume Yes/No" function of latter-day Warners discs which is where the confusion is coming from.

You are most likely right about the older Warner Bros. titles -- I remember this feature working with, as I said, The Dark Knight and discs around that vintage. But here's the thing: Almost all of my WB titles, including newer ones like Wonder Woman, Man of Steel, Justice League et. al. allowed for this "stop and resume play on next session" when viewed on my Oppo BDP-83 and Cambridge CXUHD...so it's not only older WB titles.

As for the "Resume Yes/No" functionality, yes, that is most likely where the confusion lies; those discs do have resume functionality built into them via the authoring which takes you back to the startup menu to choose Yes/No.

I've mentioned how poor the 480i disc playback is on these Pannys several times in various threads, I also noticed that exact same oddness going on with the standard-def CUE patterns on Spears & Munsil, e.g. I posted this two years ago regarding the UB900 (two zeroes ) and nothing much has changed since:

I did a 'real world' comparison between the 420 and the OPPO 203 in another thread, the OPPO's DVD upscaling is way cleaner than the 420 but I found that Source Direct from the OPPO (squirting 480i directly into my TV) looked better than either playing doing the upscaling itself. Unfortunately there's no Source Direct option on the 4K Pannys.

And to think that, back in the day, this brand was noted for their DVD players (unless I'm confusing them with another)...

But FWIW I've never had a problem like this with 480i DVD playback on the Pannys before the 4K models, and I've owned various ones that used the Uniphier chip like the BDT110, 210, 310, 220, the amazing little slot-fed BBT01 (which I should never have sold). The 310 is what I currently have and I can categorically state that the DVD playback kicks the ass of the 820, as both the test patterns and real world content lose the jagged-ass look of the 4K Panny decks. The 310 also has internal aspect ratio control so it can 'zoom' non-anamorphic widescreen discs whereas Panasonic junked all that for the 4K decks.

What's frustrating about the whole thing is that my first generation DMP-BD10A (still in use in my bedroom) exhibited pretty poor DVD upconversion to 1080p, and is the reason I bought the Oppo BDP-83 (it was a night and day difference in that regard)...but that unit did two things that were exactly what I needed, ironically, which was automatic blowing up of non-anamorphic DVDs to their proper ratios and allowing for standard def full screen content to fill the screen (the former feature even the Oppo didn't offer; I had to manually go in and zoom those discs with the remote's zoom button).

At any rate, now I'm stuck in yet another maze of confusion and uncertainty, as I like the UB9000 in many ways (the build quality, the startup/home menu graphics, the Blu-ray upconversion, the 4K performance) but there are so many other quirks that have become bothersome (the DVD scaling, no zooming modes to alter certain DVDs, the fact that you can't confirm picture adjustments like noise reduction unless a disc is playing, the strange sound of its supposedly "noise isolated" disc mechanism, the weird dimming of the home screen after five minutes, the lack of an illuminated power button even when the unit is in standby) that I feel like I may be returning yet another BD player because it just "isn't for me"...

What's worse, I STILL haven't gotten my CXUHD back yet from the repair facility, along with my two DVDs I sent them to test.

At this point, do you think I should just accept these shortcomings of the UB9000 (weird to say "shortcomings" at the price point this thing comes in at) and deal with the fact that I can't view certain DVDs on them (and all the rest) or try and wait it out for the Pioneer LX500 (if it ever comes back into stock)? I'm just tired of switching players in and out of my system already; the Cambridge seemed to be faulty, which is why I needed to switch that out (otherwise I'd still be using it), but now the UB9000 seems to be "too quirky" in terms of my personal needs (I knew this going in though). I just wish I could get one player in place and be done with it.

To be honest, Geoff, the DVD upconversion of the UB9000 doesn't look too horrid in actual use (test patterns, as you know, are another thing; I never put any up to examine) -- when we played some well-mastered and more modern discs in the unit, the upscaling was pretty rich with lots of deep color I never noticed before on any other player; there were some brief moments of additional slight aliasing and shimmering compared to other players' performance that I can recall, but for the most part, I wouldn't call the real-world DVD performance of the unit "horrid."

Still, there have been moments when the unit was tripped up -- as I mentioned, we rented the latest version of the horror classic The Grudge the other night on DVD, and the 9000 exhibited pretty bad macroblocking in a sequence in which a character is hiding in a blacked-out closet; there was also twitchy, jumpy noise artifacts in this sequence that were really offputting. But the entire film didn't look this way.

Now, about that -- I noticed with the Cambridge, too, that certain DVDs just didn't look good being upscaled to 2160; these were mainly direct-to-video duds, so it didn't really matter, but some of these looked so horrid with bad ringing/banding in dark colors and weird ghosting/artifacting in really dark sequences, it almost made me turn the disc off (so this was likely due to shitty disc mastering done by the bootleg-esque studios that put them out). There's a part of me, though, that feels like this is as good as it's gonna get for a 480 resolution format being driven up to match a 2160 resolution display system -- so I can't expect better, on any player.

I know we keep coming back to the Panasonics' poor DVD upconversion, but isn't there a certain moment where you just say "how good can a player make a DVD look at this resolution"? Conversely, I realize there's been talk of the Oppo 203's much better scaling quality, but, again, how much better can DVD actually look on our 4K screens? I'm sure it was better -- evidenced by the clips you provided above with the more jagged edges of the Panny -- but my CXUHD shared the same processor with the 203 and, like I said, a lot of DVDs just didn't look good...