DVDs look terrible on new 4K TV

[sa5150]

Think Yamaha or Marantz will join the UHD party ?
Everyone have a Happy New year

[cicada88]

Sorry for the 1 year bump, but I am interested in the status of SD-DVD upscaling.

I still watch a significant amount of DVDs--almost all non-cinematic stuff like lower-budget documentaries, etc. I currently use a BDP-83 which I sought out specifically for it's legendary handling up upscaling, deinterlacing, and ability to handle PAL/NTSC content without a hitch.

Have newer processing chips--say in the high-end Panasonic UHD Blu-Ray Players or Sony OLED TVs--surpassed the old Anchor Bay chip, or do they not really focus on deinterlacing and SD content much at all?

I would think at very least a BDP-83 outputting 1080p into a Sony OLED would do a pretty solid job.

I'm looking to upgrade to OLED / 4K in the next year, so any thoughts on this would be helpful.

[oddbox83]

Just try it yourself with the player doing the scaling, then the TV.

The flagship Panasonic 4K players have some of the most highly praised upscaling ability on the market right now, but that doesn't make your older 83 automatically poor.

However, what might be a spanner in the works is double scaling that would have to be performed if you upscaled DVDs via the player to 1080p and then the TV would have to upscale the upscale to 4K. It might not make much difference, but if you're a videophile you want a single upscale with a good quality scaler for optimum quality.

[cicada88]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

Just try it yourself with the player doing the scaling, then the TV.

The flagship Panasonic 4K players have some of the most highly praised upscaling ability on the market right now, but that doesn't make your older 83 automatically poor.

However, what might be a spanner in the works is double scaling that would have to be performed if you upscaled DVDs via the player to 1080p and then the TV would have to upscale the upscale to 4K. It might not make much difference, but if you're a videophile you want a single upscale with a good quality scaler for optimum quality.

Yeah, I definitely just have to compare with my own eyes I guess. I didn't really think about the double-scaling issue, so that's definitely something to think about.

I'm sure at some point with the processing power and custom ICs going insane that even the best older chips will be trounced. I was just wondering if we had reached that point.

[foggystone]

Have you enabled the progressive scan on your dvd player? Deinterlacing DVD can be just as important as SD to HD upscaling if the original content is not progressive. Another proper cause is that your HDTV display is less compatible with standard DVD resolution. The current HDTV is mostly built with LCD, OLED displays, which are less forgiving of lower resolution DVD sources, compared with old CRT-based displays. When the lower DVD source is blown up onto the large TV display, it will become exacerbated.
https://www.scantips.com/basics1f.html
https://www.winxdvd.com/resource/fix...vd-quality.htm

[slimdude]

DVDs look much better upscaled on a 1080p plasma, than a 4K TV.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by slimdude

DVDs look much better upscaled on a 1080p plasma, than a 4K TV.

Its not as simple as that, the best player watch SD-DVD content with a 4K OLED is the legacy Oppo 103D/105D models.

The BDP-103D moves some of the video processing to Oppo’s custom Mediatek chip and some to the VRS ClearView processor. The Mediatek chip performs all the deinterlacing and scaling to get the image to 1080p regardless of the source. It’s also responsible for the standard display settings (brightness, contrast, hue, and color) as well as noise reduction. The Silicon Image VRS ClearView video processor is responsible for any 4K scaling, but it also provides detail and edge enhancement along with video smoothing for diagonal lines.

This is a example where the multi based processor + FPGA (Darbee) BD player is oh so much more capable then build in TV SD -> 4K upscaling when it comes to DVD watching.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by cicada88

Yeah, I definitely just have to compare with my own eyes I guess. I didn't really think about the double-scaling issue, so that's definitely something to think about.

I'm sure at some point with the processing power and custom ICs going insane that even the best older chips will be trounced. I was just wondering if we had reached that point.

The double scaling isn't really a huge problem IMO, not even on the first 4K TV I had in 2013, as once the DVD image has been converted into 1080p then it's a very simple x2 upscale along each axis to make it into 2160p, as long as it's done even vaguely competently then the 4K upscale isn't going to exacerbate anything that isn't there already. But doing it all in one hit from DVD into 4K via the player will be a cleaner signal path for sure, though there are still issues with certain players. Maybe there's something different in the firmware for US Panasonic players but when playing NTSC DVD content on a UK-model 420 or 820 there's definitely something hinky going on, as things can still look a bit jaggy compared to the same disc being upscaled to 4K on the OPPO 203.

Example photos here, this is the menu from the old NTSC 'flipper' DVD of Robin Hood Prince o' Thieves being upscaled directly into 4K by the players. Top is Panny 420, bottom is OPPO 203, the images have already been embiggened for emphasis but 'click to view full size' and then look at the lettering. On the Panny the rounder yellow letters ('e's and 'o's) look more jagged rather than the smoother contours of the OPPO, and they have better defined vertical edges too on the OPPO whereas the Panny really starts to bleed over, like on the 'r' at the end of 'Teaser'. And look at the tops of the white letters, like the capital 'H' and 'T', there's clearly some ringing there that's not on the OPPO equivalent. Moving content isn't a still-frame menu, granted, but NTSC stuff really does have a 'bittier' feel even in motion on the UK Panny.

Panasonic 420




OPPO 203

[lilboyblu]

DVDs that are output at 1080p on my 4K LED look fine. I set the resolution on the player to do the processing. Upscaling them to 4K is when (some) start to look bad as it’s more easy to notice compression blocking, jaggies, and artifacting issues.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by lilboyblu

DVDs that are output at 1080p on my 4K LED look fine. I set the resolution on the player to do the processing. Upscaling them to 4K is when (some) start to look bad as it’s more easy to notice compression blocking, jaggies, and artifacting issues.

They're still being upscaled to 4K by the TV though, otherwise the 1080p image would literally take up a quarter of the screen. Or do you just mean upscaling to 4K via the player? In a way, the double-scale might actually help rather than hinder with DVD, as it's not as sharp and ruthless as a direct 480i/576i to 2160p conversion would be.

[MechaGodzilla]

Hmm, Oppo UDP-203 vs. Sony X930E. Which one would be better at upscaling DVDs there, actually? Both Sony's premium tellies and Oppo's players are renowned for their upscaling capabilities, so I'm curious.

Obviously the X930E has the X1 Extreme processor, same as the Z9D, so you'd know this as well, Geoff.

[Geoff D]

I could always try the same test with that same menu screen from RH: POT on the OPPO, firstly going with 480i fed directly into the TV (Panny's can't do source direct from DVD) and then with the OPPO's 1080p upscale.

BTW if you do still watch any NTSC DVDs then I don't recommend using the forced 24p option on the OPPO to restore the film cadence as it looks a bit jittery. I let the signal be output at 60Hz then activate the reverse 3:2 pulldown on the TV to restore the 24p cadence (MotionFlow = True Cinema, Film Mode to Medium or High, these modes sometimes have different names in different territories), it works seamlessly.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I could always try the same test with that same menu screen from RH: POT on the OPPO, firstly going with 480i fed directly into the TV (Panny's can't do source direct from DVD) and then with the OPPO's 1080p upscale.

Do it, I say. I'm curious who wins this, if there's even any appreciable difference.

Would be interesting to see if the commonly accepted "it's usually better to let the TV do the upscaling" holds true when you compare one of the best TVs with one of the best players.

BTW if you do still watch any NTSC DVDs then I don't recommend using the forced 24p option on the OPPO to restore the film cadence as it looks a bit jittery. I let the signal be output at 60Hz then activate the reverse 3:2 pulldown on the TV to restore the 24p cadence (MotionFlow = True Cinema, Film Mode to Medium or High).

Oh, I don't have the Oppo! Never got around to getting any of their players, and now it's too late. Maybe that wasn't specifically directed at me but more just general advice to anyone who does, though.

[Geoff D]

It'll be a draw I reckon. But I'll try it anyway.

[lilboyblu]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

They're still being upscaled to 4K by the TV though, otherwise the 1080p image would literally take up a quarter of the screen. Or do you just mean upscaling to 4K via the player? In a way, the double-scale might actually help rather than hinder with DVD, as it's not as sharp and ruthless as a direct 480i/576i to 2160p conversion would be.

Yeah, just the upscaling to 4K via the player is what can look rough. Its not for all DVDs, but there have been enough that I will tend to just switch to 1080p right away. Maybe just need to tweak my settings a bit more.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

BTW if you do still watch any NTSC DVDs then I don't recommend using the forced 24p option on the OPPO to restore the film cadence as it looks a bit jittery. I let the signal be output at 60Hz then activate the reverse 3:2 pulldown on the TV to restore the 24p cadence (MotionFlow = True Cinema, Film Mode to Medium or High, these modes sometimes have different names in different territories), it works seamlessly.

Yes, keeping 24fps setting definitely negatively effects playback of TV shows too. Curb Your Enthusiasm, for example, was one of the worst until remembering to switch that off. That just comes down to me not paying attention though.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I could always try the same test with that same menu screen from RH: POT on the OPPO, firstly going with 480i fed directly into the TV (Panny's can't do source direct from DVD) and then with the OPPO's 1080p upscale.

Oh, and do remember to try the Oppo's 4K upscaling, too. I want to know how both the player and TV do when upscaling it all "from the ground up".

[nws56]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

Hmm, Oppo UDP-203 vs. Sony X930E. Which one would be better at upscaling DVDs there, actually? Both Sony's premium tellies and Oppo's players are renowned for their upscaling capabilities, so I'm curious.

Obviously the X930E has the X1 Extreme processor, same as the Z9D, so you'd know this as well, Geoff.

Don't have the Oppo, but do have Panasonic 900. When feeding X940e it looks equally ugly regardless of which does the upscaling. Swapping to a ps3/4 or old Sony 760 doesn't lesson the pain. Have begun to give my dvd collection away....

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

Oh, and do remember to try the Oppo's 4K upscaling, too. I want to know how both the player and TV do when upscaling it all "from the ground up".

I did, that's what's being compared in the photos above: direct 4K upscaling from DVD using the players. And I use it all the time anyway because the OPPO is still my main player. It's those specific comparisons of the TV doing the DVD to 4K conversion and TV doing the already-upscaled 1080p to 4K conversion that I can check out.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by nws56

Don't have the Oppo, but do have Panasonic 900. When feeding X940e it looks equally ugly regardless of which does the upscaling. Swapping to a ps3/4 or old Sony 760 doesn't lesson the pain. Have begun to give my dvd collection away....

Of course it can't work miracles. The source is what it is, and you either live with that or you don't.

For me, there's too much stuff only on DVD for me to abandon that format, but I mean, I understand why you'd feel that way.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I did, that's what's being compared in the photos above: direct 4K upscaling from DVD using the players. And I use it all the time anyway because the OPPO is still my main player. It's those specific comparisons of the TV doing the DVD to 4K conversion and TV doing the already-upscaled 1080p to 4K conversion that I can check out.

Obviously, and I read that very same post. Had a brain fart there, it was nearly 6 AM and I was pretty much falling asleep.

Well, go on with the rest, anyway.

[foggystone]

Originally Posted by slimdude

DVDs look much better upscaled on a 1080p plasma, than a 4K TV.

Yep. I tried both. Preferring the former.