The Criterion Collection

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

I always thought the first UHD would be big like Kurosawa or reacquiring the original two of Kane and Kong.

I just imagined a hybrid movie where Kane's protege girl is Ann Darrow, and the final sequence has Kong climbing the Empire State Tower while Kane is trashing the top floor suite. When Kong reaches the top, he stares for a moment into the trashed suite with Ann in his fist, a look of almost human comprehension entering his eyes when he sees Kane standing exhausted amid the ruins of the room. Kane looks longingly at Ann, whispers 'Rosebud' and slumps down. Kong resumes the climb, following on to his own demise.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by guizhang

any thoughts on these as blind buys?

The Color of Pomegranates

I have this on the Second Sight blu and on two separate occasions I fell asleep about 20 min in. If you are very fond of Koyaanisqatsi type non-narrative visual trips you may fare better.

[The Coconut God]

Originally Posted by guizhang

any thoughts on these as blind buys?

The Color of Pomegranates
The Ascent

The Color of Pomegranates has a particularly daft and senseless scene of animal cruelty at the end, which for a second there - to my admitted shame - made me feel a pang of karmic satisfaction over Parajanov's suffering in the Soviet jails, but if you can get over that (and it's not something that bothers me as a general rule as much as it did here, mainly because of how self-important the scene is and how easily the animal cruelty could have been replaced with something else), it is a very beautiful and unique film. However, there's more poetry to it than meaning (from what I recall from the commentary on the Second Sight release, a lot of it was improvised simply for the sake of looking interesting).

[guizhang]

Originally Posted by The Coconut God

The Color of Pomegranates has a particularly daft and senseless scene of animal cruelty at the end, which for a second there - to my admitted shame - made me feel a pang of karmic satisfaction over Parajanov's suffering in the Soviet jails, but if you can get over that (and it's not something that bothers me as a general rule as much as it did here, mainly because of how self-important the scene is and how easily the animal cruelty could have been replaced with something else), it is a very beautiful and unique film. However, there's more poetry to it than meaning (from what I recall from the commentary on the Second Sight release, a lot of it was improvised simply for the sake of looking interesting).

oh man, animal cruelty. ugh. i watched andrei rublev recently, which i loved, but it had a few tough scenes to watch that featured animals getting hurt - in the longer cut anyway.

the screenshots of the color of pomegranates really appeal to me though. visually very striking and beautiful. i'm generally pretty ok with a more visually poetic style rather than a straight forward narrative (terrence malick comes to mind), so i'll think about it some more.

[mande2013]

I'm surprised by the level of anti-Criterion sentiment in other parts of this forum. While I know some of their recent discs have had faulty compression(that's no secret) I was under the impression releases such as The Tree of Like, The New World, and Barry Lyndon were home runs by the standards of the blu-ray format at least. I've seen people say all their Blu-ray Discs are poor...

[Maximux]

https://youtu.be/pNbPbHMH_pU

[The Coconut God]

Originally Posted by guizhang

oh man, animal cruelty. ugh. i watched andrei rublev recently, which i loved, but it had a few tough scenes to watch that featured animals getting hurt - in the longer cut anyway.

the screenshots of the color of pomegranates really appeal to me though. visually very striking and beautiful. i'm generally pretty ok with a more visually poetic style rather than a straight forward narrative (terrence malick comes to mind), so i'll think about it some more.

I haven't seen Andrei Rublev, but I've seen Marketa Lazarova (which I loved) and Bondarchuk's War and Peace (which I liked). I'm also a huge fan of Wake in Fright and enjoyed Walkabout a lot. All of these feature some instances of animal cruelty (whether done for the sake of the film or showing footage from real hunts), but I could deal with it every time. In this film it feels particularly vile because it's all done very deliberately for the sake of a rather flat and pompous metaphor.

I'll describe it in spoiler tags, though be warned that you might find simply reading about it offensive:

[Show spoiler]The poet Sayat-Nova is dying. We watch from above as he lies down dramatically on the floor of a church, surrounded by a forest of lit candles. Half a dozen decapitated chickens are thrown into the frame, to flap their life away around and on top of him for some 20 seconds, sputtering blood and knocking down candles. A metaphor for the throes of death and/or the suffering of the Armenian people.

Earlier in the film, there was another scene of animal slaughter (iirc it didn't show the actual killing), which on initial viewing I took to be a depiction of a traditional festival. If memory serves, this is where the commentator said that Parajanov made it up.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by mande2013

I'm surprised by the level of anti-Criterion sentiment in other parts of this forum. While I know some of their recent discs have had faulty compression(that's no secret) I was under the impression releases such as The Tree of Like, The New World, and Barry Lyndon were home runs by the standards of the blu-ray format at least. I've seen people say all their Blu-ray Discs are poor...

My modus operandi is to look at screenshots here or at caps-a-holic (at 100% magnification, not zoomed in). If I can't within a few moments see something that bothers me, I will likely be okay with the disc. It has mostly worked for me.

[RBBrittain]

Originally Posted by Maximux

https://youtu.be/pNbPbHMH_pU

Jeff says in addition to the "last 30 years" title hinted at on Criterionforum, his sources tell him another film from the first 30 years of American cinema will join it on Criterion UHDBD.

I've already posted my guesses there as to the two: It Happened One Night & The Silence of the Lambs. Both are already Criterion on BD; both have 4K transfers on streaming sites already; both are from studios that routinely license stuff to Criterion; and they're two of the only three films ever to sweep the "Big Five" Oscars (Picture, Director, Actor, Actress & the relevant Screenplay award) so they're both likely to be big sellers for Criterion on UHDBD. (WB owns the third, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.) IHON was widely expected to be in Columbia Classics Vol. 2 but was omitted; Lambs isn't on UHDBD because it's an MGM title that's not a Daniel Craig Bond film, and it's right at the "last 30 years" number.

[KubrickKurasawa]

Originally Posted by guizhang

oh man, animal cruelty. ugh. i watched andrei rublev recently, which i loved, but it had a few tough scenes to watch that featured animals getting hurt - in the longer cut anyway.

the screenshots of the color of pomegranates really appeal to me though. visually very striking and beautiful. i'm generally pretty ok with a more visually poetic style rather than a straight forward narrative (terrence malick comes to mind), so i'll think about it some more.

Just go deep and if you're stuck on region 1 get the Kino DVD boxset new or used imho. He's a complete visual director though.

[Gacivory]

If Criterion is planning a 4K of a film from early cinema. It would make sense for it to be Citizen Kane. It’s 1941 but it would make sense for how they could improve on the previous Blu. I don’t know if that’s considered, “first 30 years of cinema”.

[Professor Echo]

I'm betting the farm it will be either Lynch or Anderson since they are no doubt top tier supporters and contributors to the label, in one way or another.











P.S. I don't actually own a farm which means it's anyone's guess.

[SteelyTom]

Originally Posted by Gacivory

If Criterion is planning a 4K of a film from early cinema. It would make sense for it to be Citizen Kane. It’s 1941 but it would make sense for how they could improve on the previous Blu. I don’t know if that’s considered, “first 30 years of cinema”.

Kane and Mulholland Dr. would make a nice opening 4k duo.

[umop apisdn]

My thematic guess is Mank and Citizen Kane are the first UHD titles.

The first 30 years of American film could bring some great possibilities. If they use 1910 date as the first film shot in Hollywood, Citizen Kane falls just outside that range.

The first upgrades we'll probably see are Wes Anderson, Malick, etc. Afterwards, I hope for some Scorsese titles we've been waiting on for what seems to be forever: After Hours, Bringing Out the Dead, etc.

[SeanJoyce]

Originally Posted by RBBrittain

[Show spoiler]Jeff says in addition to the "last 30 years" title hinted at on Criterionforum, his sources tell him another film from the first 30 years of American cinema will join it on Criterion UHDBD.

I've already posted my guesses there as to the two: It Happened One Night & The Silence of the Lambs. Both are already Criterion on BD; both have 4K transfers on streaming sites already; both are from studios that routinely license stuff to Criterion; and they're two of the only three films ever to sweep the "Big Five" Oscars (Picture, Director, Actor, Actress & the relevant Screenplay award) so they're both likely to be big sellers for Criterion on UHDBD. (WB owns the third, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.) IHON was widely expected to be in Columbia Classics Vol. 2 but was omitted; Lambs isn't on UHDBD because it's an MGM title that's not a Daniel Craig Bond film, and it's right at the "last 30 years" number.

A UHD of It Happened One Night would be an utter waste.

[garyd97]

Citizen Kane and Silence of the Lambs would be my guess.

[ShellOilJunior]

I think the more likely title is On the Waterfront.

Though I certainly wouldn't pass on It Happened One Night.

[CRASHLANDING]

Originally Posted by guizhang

any thoughts on these as blind buys?

The Color of Pomegranates
The Ascent

These are both great and important films, but I would suggest caution on either as a blind buy.

TCOP: This is just a very unconventional (though strikingly beautiful) film. You mentioned Malick as a comparison, but his stories at least provide a rough framework around the amazing imagery. A better comparison would be something like Baraka or the Qatsi films...more like visual poetry than any sort of linear narrative.

Ascent: it's an excellent movie, and the CC edition is loaded with extras. But it's also a very bleak story about war and spirituality. I love Shepitko, and think she's sadly overlooked as a great director, but this movie is a difficult watch and probably not one you'll revisit often just because it's so grim.

[Shanghai Express]

Trouble In Paradise 4K UHD incoming?

[RBBrittain]

Originally Posted by SeanJoyce

A UHD of It Happened One Night would be an utter waste.

No more so than Citizen Kane, probably much less. It was posted in comments at Films at Home that Kane's OCN no longer exists. I'm not sure if IHON's OCN exists (it is known that the OCN of All Quiet on the Western Front, just slightly older, disintegrated after just a few years due to "overprinting" -- its current restoration is mainly from a Library of Congress copyright print which is at least two generations earlier than all others), but it is known that Columbia/Sony has taken FAR better care of its catalog -- especially its Best Picture winners -- than any other studio. Grover Crisp may not be as visible as he once was, but his work in preserving that catalog will outlive him. (Edit: Compare the relatively clean historical path of the Columbia/Sony library -- the primary studio owner never changed, only the parent company -- to the tumultuous history of the RKO library of which Kane is its crown jewel.)

If your problem is that IHON is a B&W film and thus can't get the full benefit of HDR, you're only partially right. While B&W films don't benefit from the wide color gamut (WCG) component of what the industry has packaged as HDR, the main part of HDR is about improving brightness & contrast -- things that benefit B&W films as much as color films. Read the video quality part of this site's review of Mr. Smith Goes to Washington 4K (part of Columbia Classics Vol. 1), another B&W Frank Capra film only five years newer than IHON that has received the same Sony TLC. It's a gushing two-paragraph review whose entire second paragraph is devoted to how HDR in particular made it better despite its being B&W. It would be a conservative estimate that a Criterion UHDBD of IHON would be in roughly the same ballpark as Mr. Smith PQ-wise, especially if Criterion can improve on Sony's own work.