The Criterion Collection

[hoytereden]

All I want is for them to get back to upgrading their da*n dvd library on a regular basis! Sooooo many titles.

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by jw007

Is there any chance Criterion would release a film made in Israel?

I am barely knowledgable with Israeli cinema, but I'm curious if there's any one Israeli movie that might make the cut? I'm not referring to Palestinian cinema, but Israeli cinema, just to be clear here.

I can't think of a single one that I'd consider a masterpiece or a classic. But it would be interesting to see something from Israel make it into the collection someday.

The Band's Visit and Waltz with Bashir seem to have decent reputations, although I didn't particularly care for either of them.

[JupiterMission]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Consider in the 2+ years since the NYT article, Shanghai Express was the first person to call them "affirmative action titles" with his post, and you were the second. Let that sink in. If you can't see why using that term, or the other language you're using like it's simply some "project" is wrong, then all I can suggest is for you brush up on racial history in America.

MifuneFan, I want to start by saying I've always enjoyed your contributions to the forum and admired your ability to go digging and find new releases before they're announced. I don't remember the names of many users here (I don't take forums very seriously), but I remember yours because I've taken positive notice of it. If you were a user I didn't recognize or I suspected you were trolling, I would have just ignored this instead of attempting to engage you in a conversation.

That said, you've engaged with virtually nothing I've written and instead decided to interpret it all in bad faith, harp on my word choice, and latch on to me re-using a phrase Shanghai used so you could dramatically suggest I am racist and ignorant. If you think I'm racist, just call me racist. If you think I'm dumb, just call me dumb.

Nevertheless:
Around 25% of the releases in question were re-releases. I took "easy way out" to simply be a humorous poke at this Noble Project, and spent most of my first post criticizing the NYT. If you resent the humor, that's fine, but if you can't see elements of absurdity in America's 2020 "racial reckoning," I truly pity you.

After the NYT piece, Criterion sent out multiple emails talking about how they were going to Do Better by increasing the amount of black representation in the collection. It is literally a "project" the company is undertaking.

And since you apparently can't be bothered, the first line in the Wikipedia entry for "affirmative action" is: "Affirmative action involves sets of policies and practices within a government or organization seeking to include particular groups based on their gender, race, sexuality, creed or nationality in areas in which such groups are underrepresented - such as education and employment." I feel the phrase is accurate in this context, but if you feel it is inaccurate or inappropriate, draw me a straight line (no ad hominem) and I'll hear you out.

Overall, yes, I do object to the prioritization of films based on the skin color of their director and/or cast members. I think it casts a cloud over the films that get selected, as if they don't really deserve it, but I also don't view the Criterion Collection as a truly meritocratic or sacred thing, so it's not a big personal deal to me.

A plus side to the project has been that it has drawn my attention to some good movies I might not have seen otherwise. A downside to the project is that it is surely postponing some titles I'd rather have (which is also the case for every single title they release that I don't want!), and it's diverting company efforts into something that - even if they feel it's socially important - might not be profitable. If hearing these very mild opinions drives people into a frothing rage, I make no apologies.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by JupiterMission

MifuneFan, I want to start by saying I've always enjoyed your contributions to the forum and admired your ability to go digging and find new releases before they're announced. I don't remember the names of many users here (I don't take forums very seriously), but I remember yours because I've taken positive notice of it. If you were a user I didn't recognize or I suspected you were trolling, I would have just ignored this instead of attempting to engage you in a conversation.

That said, you've engaged with virtually nothing I've written and instead decided to interpret it all in bad faith, harp on my word choice, and latch on to me re-using a phrase Shanghai used so you could dramatically suggest I am racist and ignorant. If you think I'm racist, just call me racist. If you think I'm dumb, just call me dumb.

Nevertheless:
Around 25% of the releases in question were re-releases. I took "easy way out" to simply be a humorous poke at this Noble Project, and spent most of my first post criticizing the NYT. If you resent the humor, that's fine, but if you can't see elements of absurdity in America's 2020 "racial reckoning," I truly pity you.

After the NYT piece, Criterion sent out multiple emails talking about how they were going to Do Better by increasing the amount of black representation in the collection. It is literally a "project" the company is undertaking.

And since you apparently can't be bothered, the first line in the Wikipedia entry for "affirmative action" is: "Affirmative action involves sets of policies and practices within a government or organization seeking to include particular groups based on their gender, race, sexuality, creed or nationality in areas in which such groups are underrepresented - such as education and employment." I feel the phrase is accurate in this context, but if you feel it is inaccurate or inappropriate, draw me a straight line (no ad hominem) and I'll hear you out.

Overall, yes, I do object to the prioritization of films based on the skin color of their director and/or cast members. I think it casts a cloud over the films that get selected, as if they don't really deserve it, but I also don't view the Criterion Collection as a truly meritocratic or sacred thing, so it's not a big personal deal to me.

A plus side to the project has been that it has drawn my attention to some good movies I might not have seen otherwise. A downside to the project is that it is surely postponing some titles I'd rather have (which is also the case for every single title they release that I don't want!), and it's diverting company efforts into something that - even if they feel it's socially important - might not be profitable. If hearing these very mild opinions drives people into a frothing rage, I make no apologies.

[Show spoiler]

Over the years since affirmative action was introduced, the term has often been used in a veiled racist, and derogatory manner by ignorant, if not outright racist individuals. I also feel the term is inappropriate because affirmative action can treat something like race as a qualification, or to meet quotas, so you get what becomes a "token black person" in a job, etc...Now apply that to Criterion, and it sounds like we simply have "token black films" being included to meet a quota, rather than belonging n the collection based on quality, or merit, etc.. I personally don't believe that's happening with the titles that Criterion has been putting out. Affirmative action also has a pretty long and messy history in this country, and this really isn't the place to get into that, but suffice to say, the policy and how it may apply to the workplace, or college admissions, really don't make an appropriate parallel for what Criterion is doing here in my opinion.

As for calling it a project, are we, or did we ever call Criterion releasing more films from female directors a "project"? I personally don't recall that happening in the past, and we certainly aren't calling it a project today. You might look at it as semantics, but it comes off as belittling to me to look at Criterion addressing a significant blind-spot as merely a "project". I don't consider it a project, so much as part of a new normal. One that many on here either seem to be having a hard time adjusting to, or are merely waiting for this "project" of theirs to be over with. Again, could just be a semantics argument, but it's that sort of language, combined with saying things like affirmative action titles (which to be fair, you are simply echoing Shanghai's language) that prompted me to make note of it.

As you point out, there are certainly some positives, and new discoveries to be found from Criterion addressing this blind-spot. At most, maybe there's 1 slot out of the 5 or 6 titles a month that may be from a black filmmaker, so it's honestly hard to see that as such a downside, especially when that particular film may be just as equally deserving of a slot as the one you're clamoring for. This depends on whether you view that film as being there simply to meet a quota, or not, I guess.

The fact remains that even without putting a film from a black director in that slot, there will be something there that someone will argue is taking the spot of something they wanted instead. It's been happening every month for as long as I can remember. I'm not singling you out here, but it would be unfair to pin the blame on the sole black film in a month's slate, rather than any of the other choices that Criterion made that month. As you said, in your case, it's every film announced that isn't the one you wanted. I think it's safe to say, Duke also feels that way about every title that isn't a Japanese film every month too

My earlier responses were intentionally shortened, as I wasn't trying to rehash this debate for the millionth time, nor derail the thread further.. I do appreciate your response though, and also apologize for lumping you in too much with Shanghai.

[bonehica]

Originally Posted by jw007

Is there any chance Criterion would release a film made in Israel?

I am barely knowledgable with Israeli cinema, but I'm curious if there's any one Israeli movie that might make the cut? I'm not referring to Palestinian cinema, but Israeli cinema, just to be clear here.

I can't think of a single one that I'd consider a masterpiece or a classic. But it would be interesting to see something from Israel make it into the collection someday.

I thought this was a pretty good film when I blind bought the DVD back in 2005. Does it belong in the Criterion Collection? The argument for that is not a hill I am willing to die on. However, if they released it on blu, I would definitely upgrade!

[PacMan3000]

Originally Posted by JupiterMission

A downside to the project is that it is surely postponing some titles I'd rather have

And surely, the titles you enjoy were preventing good films by black filmmakers from getting into Criterion to begin with. So I'm happy with the change. It's overdue. If a company claims to love and respect film, you shouldn't have to be scolded by the NYT to know that Hollywood Shuffle is a great movie or Marlon Riggs made excellent, probing documentaries. But if you're not going to do the right thing on your own, sometimes you need to be called out for screwing up.

And thankfully, that's what happened.

[gudemameshiba]

It's not a zero-sum game, where one movie's release is preventing another's. At any time Criterion could have, and still can, elect to release more (or for that matter fewer) titles per month. They could always already have been releasing both or neither.

And Criterion has been synonymous with postponement for basically its entire existence, so we can hardly chalk that up to this effort, lol.

[gudemameshiba]

I will grant that five years ago they couldn't have released Faya Dayi, Eyimofe, Farewell Amor, One Night in Miami…, Time, or This Is Not a Burial, It’s a Resurrection, for the same reason they couldn't have released The Irishman, Uncut Gems, Marriage Story, Parasite, Portrait of a Lady on Fire, Sound of Metal, Drive My Car, etc.: the films hadn't been made yet.

[Lutz]

Originally Posted by jw007

Is there any chance Criterion would release a film made in Israel?

You just need to look at the current film festival circuit to see why Criterion won’t release any Israeli cinema. If they did they’d court a huge amount of media controversy.

[jw007]

Originally Posted by Lutz

You just need to look at the current film festival circuit to see why Criterion won’t release any Israeli cinema. If they did they’d court a huge amount of media controversy.

Well that's what I call a double standard by the independent film world. I don't want to get into the whole discussion of the demonization of Israel from the far Left, but an entire country should not be culturally boycotted based on the fact that movies made in that country are automatically connected to a corrupt and unequal government (at least to many).

I'm not sure the taboo against Israeli cinema/culture will ever end though, as long as Zionism is intrinsically separated from Judaism. Maybe one day when Zionism and Judaism are synonymous with one another, people will accept Israeli cinema worldwide. Until then, Zionism is considered a racist term (even though many Jews living in Israel are proud Zionists and unapologetic about it). But I don't want to open a can of worms here, as anti-semitism has been in the news as of late.

Being that I made citizenship to Israel about a year ago and have been living here for the past year, I still have not gotten myself to a movie theater. I tried getting into Israeli movies a number of years ago, but unfortunately I never clicked with any of them. I just don't really "get" the culture. My citizenship is based solely on coming here to help my mother for the past year as she's elderly, renovate a family property, and to film a documentary. I am returning to the U.S. in less than 3 weeks.

A few days ago while searching for a movie to see, I came across some not so great reviews of some of the Israeli theaters. Before I leave, I'm going to made it a goal to go to a movie theater however. I'd say half of the movies playing in cineplexes here are Israeli while the other half are Hollywood/foreign.

It's all quite fascinating (from an American perspective), and I'm at least glad to experience something different.

[jw007]

Originally Posted by Bradsdadg

I don't see why not. Though I can't think of a film off hand, I would hope one day they get into the collection. If not a main release, at least part of Martin Scorsese's World Cinema Project

Yes, I wonder if Scorsese has any interest in Israeli cinema though? Maybe Quentin Tarantino should put together his own "World Cinema Project" box set, as he's living in Tel Aviv these days! Or even better, for his 10th and final film, he should shoot a movie in Israel.

Originally Posted by koberulz

The Band's Visit and Waltz with Bashir seem to have decent reputations, although I didn't particularly care for either of them.

I saw both of these too, but they aren't movies I could probably revisit again.

Originally Posted by bonehica

I thought this was a pretty good film when I blind bought the DVD back in 2005. Does it belong in the Criterion Collection? The argument for that is not a hill I am willing to die on. However, if they released it on blu, I would definitely upgrade!

[Show spoiler]

I appreciate the feedback here. I will certainly check out "Walk on Water".

[Jaymole]

Late Marriage is one of my favorite Israeli films and I highly recommend it. I also recommend Eyes Wide Open.

[Bradsdadg]

Originally Posted by Lutz

You just need to look at the current film festival circuit to see why Criterion won’t release any Israeli cinema. If they did they’d court a huge amount of media controversy.

I honestly hope this would never be an issue. Doesn't matter the film/country/race etc. If they are going to include all, include all.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by jw007

Yes, I wonder if Scorsese has any interest in Israeli cinema though? Maybe Quentin Tarantino should put together his own "World Cinema Project" box set, as he's living in Tel Aviv these days! Or even better, for his 10th and final film, he should shoot a movie in Israel.



I saw both of these too, but they aren't movies I could probably revisit again.

[/SPOILER]

I appreciate the feedback here. I will certainly check out "Walk on Water".

Maybe they could do a Lemon Popsicle box set.

[bergman864]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Over the years since affirmative action was introduced, the term has often been used in a veiled racist, and derogatory manner by ignorant, if not outright racist individuals. I also feel the term is inappropriate because affirmative action can treat something like race as a qualification, or to meet quotas, so you get what becomes a "token black person" in a job, etc...Now apply that to Criterion, and it sounds like we simply have "token black films" being included to meet a quota, rather than belonging n the collection based on quality, or merit, etc.. I personally don't believe that's happening with the titles that Criterion has been putting out. Affirmative action also has a pretty long and messy history in this country, and this really isn't the place to get into that, but suffice to say, the policy and how it may apply to the workplace, or college admissions, really don't make an appropriate parallel for what Criterion is doing here in my opinion.

As for calling it a project, are we, or did we ever call Criterion releasing more films from female directors a "project"? I personally don't recall that happening in the past, and we certainly aren't calling it a project today. You might look at it as semantics, but it comes off as belittling to me to look at Criterion addressing a significant blind-spot as merely a "project". I don't consider it a project, so much as part of a new normal. One that many on here either seem to be having a hard time adjusting to, or are merely waiting for this "project" of theirs to be over with. Again, could just be a semantics argument, but it's that sort of language, combined with saying things like affirmative action titles (which to be fair, you are simply echoing Shanghai's language) that prompted me to make note of it.

As you point out, there are certainly some positives, and new discoveries to be found from Criterion addressing this blind-spot. At most, maybe there's 1 slot out of the 5 or 6 titles a month that may be from a black filmmaker, so it's honestly hard to see that as such a downside, especially when that particular film may be just as equally deserving of a slot as the one you're clamoring for. This depends on whether you view that film as being there simply to meet a quota, or not, I guess.

The fact remains that even without putting a film from a black director in that slot, there will be something there that someone will argue is taking the spot of something they wanted instead. It's been happening every month for as long as I can remember. I'm not singling you out here, but it would be unfair to pin the blame on the sole black film in a month's slate, rather than any of the other choices that Criterion made that month. As you said, in your case, it's every film announced that isn't the one you wanted. I think it's safe to say, Duke also feels that way about every title that isn't a Japanese film every month too

My earlier responses were intentionally shortened, as I wasn't trying to rehash this debate for the millionth time, nor derail the thread further.. I do appreciate your response though, and also apologize for lumping you in too much with Shanghai.

No one seems to be making a fuss when they re-release Miller's Crossing, Smooth Talk, Fast Times at Ridgemont High, Moonstruck, Uncut Gems, Double Indemnity or Raging Bull. It's abundantly clear that his response and the other poster had some underlying bias to them.

[Vinyl]

I’m rewatching Sword of Doom and keep thinking of toxic masculinity. I was fixed on the characters of Ryunosuke Tsukue and Shichibei

The reasons behind a man’s motivations
What men do to gain and keep honor
The downfall of a man with too much power
Going insane because of too much power

Edit: and OMG the lighting and sound design in the last 20 minutes are amazing!!

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by bergman864

No one seems to be making a fuss when they re-release Miller's Crossing, Smooth Talk, Fast Times at Ridgemont High, Moonstruck, Uncut Gems, Double Indemnity or Raging Bull. It's abundantly clear that his response and the other poster had some underlying bias to them.

I agree and disagree. I know there was a fuss when Millers Crossing was released because that one had a perfectly good transfer already with the Fox disc which was the same one Criterion used. I personally was annoyed when almost all of the titles you mentioned were announced because most of them had good releases. Sure some were going 4K, but I do wish if Criterion is going to release titles as upgrades to 4K they also give us an extra title a month.

I personally just want more new to HD releases. Be it from black, white, hispanic, asian filmmakers. The release of February that made me go "ugh" the most was Dazed And Confused because that already has a very nice Criterion release in HD. Again if they want upgrade a title to 4K that's fine, but I do wish we got more titles a month to begin with.

However, I do agree that there are posters here who are upset about the huge uptick in films that they believe are "affirmative action" titles. That's pretty obvious. For me, if it's new to HD, that's what gets me excited. Eve's Bayou, Buck and Preacher, or ones that were in BAD shape on Blu-ray like Menace II Society. Titles that already had pretty good releases like Malcolm X, get the same ugh from me that Dazed and Confused did. I want new to HD titles and wish Criterion would focus more on those. Instead of Malcolm X, I would have killed for Get on the Bus or Da 5 Bloods.

At the end of the day, new films is what I think a lot of people are looking for. That and some more Japanese titles.

[RevolverOcelScott]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

Anyone have any good ideas on how to convince Criterion to start releasing their Japanese titles?

Write a NYT article!

But seriously, if you find a way, I'll join your crusade!

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

I personally just want more new to HD releases. Be it from black, white, hispanic, asian filmmakers. The release of February that made me go "ugh" the most was Dazed And Confused because that already has a very nice Criterion release in HD. Again if they want upgrade a title to 4K that's fine, but I do wish we got more titles a month to begin with.

Yeah, I'd at least appreciate if they stuck to doing new 4K Upgrade releases from their DVD catalogue, rather than blu-rays from 5 years ago.

Then again, I'm just glad they finally moved to 4K, even if it creates the "Should I buy this new release blu-ray if they are gonna 4K it in 2 years."

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by RevolverOcelScott

Write a NYT article!

But seriously, if you find a way, I'll join your crusade!

Haha, I was just joking to try and change the subject, but if there was really a way to convince them, then you better believe I would try it.

Someone has mentioned that Criterion's new owners aren't as invested in Japanese cinema as the those who ran it 20 years ago. So I'm not sure if any sort of campaigning would do any good and Criterion could simply go "Look! We used to release a ton of Japanese films on DVD, but we want to try new things now!" That's fine, but if they don't have any plans to release the titles they acquired 20 years ago and have them now in perpetuity, then maybe sub license? That benefits everyone. Criterion makes some extra cash and retains streaming rights, and some label can release the films on Blu-ray which gets the films out there to physical collectors and they only retain the rights for a few years which then goes back to Criterion.

I just want those Hideo Gosha films out on Blu-ray the most. Such good films.

[RevolverOcelScott]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

Someone has mentioned that Criterion's new owners aren't as invested in Japanese cinema as the those who ran it 20 years ago. So I'm not sure if any sort of campaigning would do any good and Criterion could simply go "Look! We used to release a ton of Japanese films on DVD, but we want to try new things now!" That's fine, but if they don't have any plans to release the titles they acquired 20 years ago and have them now in perpetuity, then maybe sub license? That benefits everyone. Criterion makes some extra cash and retains streaming rights, and some label can release the films on Blu-ray which gets the films out there to physical collectors and they only retain the rights for a few years which then goes back to Criterion.

I just want those Hideo Gosha films out on Blu-ray the most. Such good films.

That's a bummer. I agree, it's fine if they've shifted away from as many Japanese films, but don't hold them hostage!