The Criterion Collection

[concolt]

Makes me a little sad that there isn’t a single digipak.

[mande2013]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

Duke, I respect your long rant and agree with a lot of it (even though I've mercifully chosen a follow up quote by you and not the unspoilered epic one as others are doing), but I really feel that Criterion has seen the future and it is their streaming channel, not Blu or 4K discs. Although they may pay a lot of lip service to supporting physical media, I sincerely believe they have embraced the simplicity and economical format of streaming and that most of the titles many of us would like to see released by them on disc will now be reserved for their channel platform. I don't say any of this to label them as a sell out, I say it in a realistic view of what makes the most sense for them as a COMPANY rather than a non-profit film school, which they are not. Running and curating a subscription based TV channel represents a lot of advantages to them right now in our current economy and dwindling physical market.

I have to ask. Do you sincerely see Criterion choosing to no longer release discs in the near future? Or at least to slow down the pace at which they do so?

Surely on some level, they're spitting out all these 4Ks because people are buying them, or is it not that simple in your opinion?

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by DimitriL

But if it’s gonna fund that Ranown box, that Sembene box, that Rohmer box, that Araki box, even that huge Underground Railroad set? Fine. Hell, 3 versions of Pat Garrett. (I only bring that up bc of Togo’s actual insane claim that Criterion’s abandoned box sets. I’m sure he’s not gonna count the 40th box for some reason, even though it’s gonna be a fantastic starting point for a lot of film lovers for years.)

Yeah, I really wouldn't consider those the "traditional" boxsets we are used to getting from Criterion. We used to get a yearly massive boxset of mostly new titles, and this year we get one of titles that have already have single releases? Yeah, Criterion hasn't released one of their boxsets in awhile. Zatoichi? Now that's what I call a boxset.

Either way, I kind of expected a lot of devout Criterion fans to chime in to my rant, and I respect everyone's opinions, well, almost everyone's. I still think Criterion has become mostly a joke and as someone else said, is mostly driving in neutral and riding on its own coattails for awhile.

Sure we get some good titles here and there, and I'll probably buy Drugstore Cowboy, but I still echo that its model of 4K upgrades is damn frustrating. The last chance a lot of these films have of getting a physical release is with Criterion, and as time passes and the market shrinks, those chances might be gone forever unless Criterion sublicense's or something else.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by mande2013

I don't see the Criterion Channel failing anytime soon honestly, and I think there's an "if you build it they'll come" factor to its success. It fills way too vital a niche in the present media landscape to fail. If Criterion could be a successful distribution company at the height of the DVD era releasing things like Il Posto and Closely Watched Trains then there's no reason their streaming service can't be sustainable in the present environment provided they're not financially dumb in the way they manage it. Mubi's streaming service, which fills an overlapping niche with Criterion's service, seems quite successful so...

Maybe, or maybe not. Right now, I guess enough of the people who subscribe to the Criterion Channel are not the ones who really want to subscribe some of the other streaming channels as they are vastly different in terms of what is being shown.

On the other hand, I also wonder how some of these streaming channels will survive with piracy become more rampant and accessible on the internet. Hell, most of the films on the Criterion Channel show up on a google search for free.

Still, Criterion has stood the test of time more than most labels, so we'll see.

[Watershipdownisgood]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

Haha. It’s a joke hombre unless you really think I can battle a label?

Yeah I get it at least BFI, Kani, 88 Films, Film Movement, and Radiance are putting out a lot of Japanese, and Chinese titles especially BFI whom I have a feeling have more Kurosawa new to Blu-Ray in the pipeline since Criterion isn’t doing that so thank goodness BFI exists. Nah I don’t think you could battle a label I get the joke now it’s pretty funny. Very excited for Stray Dog on Blu-Ray in January from BFI

[MifuneFan]

There was a 9 film Chantal Akerman set earlier this year, and a 9 film Pasolini set last year. I would say these are more the norm than the massive sets are.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by Watershipdownisgood

Yeah I get it at least BFI, Kani, 88 Films, Film Movement, and Radiance are putting out a lot of Japanese, and Chinese titles especially BFI whom I have a feeling have more Kurosawa new to Blu-Ray in the pipeline since Criterion isn’t doing that so thank goodness BFI exists. Nah I don’t think you could battle a label I get the joke now it’s pretty funny. Very excited for Stray Dog on Blu-Ray in January from BFI

For me at this point, it's not that there isn't enough Japanese films coming out, because there is, and there will be a lot more coming. The issue is that Criterion and ONLY Criterion has some of my favorites.

Hunter in the Dark has been my most wanted film to be released on disc since 2009 when I found out they had it. It was one of their first Japanese films streaming in HD too. I also thought it was a shoe in for a DVD or Blu-ray, but it never happened. I would import that title in two seconds flat even with my anti import issue, but I've been told that it's off limits in the UK because of Criterion.

This is just one example of many. I really do wish if Criterion was certain they wouldn't release certain films on disc that they would be willing to sub license. That would truly be nice as well give them some extra added income.

[Areyakiddin]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

There was a 9 film Chantal Akerman set earlier this year, and a 9 film Pasolini set last year. I would say these are more the norm than the massive sets are.

And there was also the 5 film Ranown Westerns boxset last year as well.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Areyakiddin

And there was also the 5 film Ranown Westerns boxset last year as well.

Yep, as well as a 6-film Jackie Chan set. I'm sure Duke doesn't see these as massive, but I also dont see smaller sets as them having abandoned box sets. The much bigger sets really are the outliers here.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I'm sure Duke doesn't see these as massive

Correct. I miss those massive sets just because Criterion has the entire filmographies of a lot of directors. I'd love to see the most requested Kurosawa at one point, but it would be nice of them to release something like all of the Juzo Itami films, or all of the Sleepy Eyes of Death films. I'd consider the Pasolini and Akerman as actual box sets though.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by mande2013

I have to ask. Do you sincerely see Criterion choosing to no longer release discs in the near future? Or at least to slow down the pace at which they do so?

Surely on some level, they're spitting out all these 4Ks because people are buying them, or is it not that simple in your opinion?

No, I don’t see it happening in the “near” future, just in the future without attaching a specific timeline to it as I am not Nostradamus. It’s more of an industry evolution once the lure of Limited Edition 4K deluxe box sets runs its natural course and has priced many of us out of the market. What I’m saying is happening NOW with Criterion is that they are making more overtly conscious choices of what lands on the channel and what gets reserved for disc. In other words, the channel represents the safety net for the tightrope balancing disc division.

The worse thing Criterion could do now is get into the deluxe limited edition market as that will blow up soon enough. But they did seem to wait too long to go 4K and now are playing catch up. In my personal view, I think the discs will continue for awhile, but it may become more and more obvious to us on the outside looking in what will be a disc possibility and what will end up a Channel exclusive.

[JoelGoodsen]

No SubUrbia(1996) or Sideways 4K again? No worries. I'm fine.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

Maybe, or maybe not. Right now, I guess enough of the people who subscribe to the Criterion Channel are not the ones who really want to subscribe some of the other streaming channels as they are vastly different in terms of what is being shown.

On the other hand, I also wonder how some of these streaming channels will survive with piracy become more rampant and accessible on the internet. Hell, most of the films on the Criterion Channel show up on a google search for free.

Still, Criterion has stood the test of time more than most labels, so we'll see.

I consider The Criterion Channel to be the greatest network in the history of television since TCM first started. Even if I watched 2 films per day on The Criterion Channel I would never get to see everything I want to see. It’s an amazing service.

[mande2013]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

No, I don’t see it happening in the “near” future, just in the future without attaching a specific timeline to it as I am not Nostradamus. It’s more of an industry evolution once the lure of Limited Edition 4K deluxe box sets runs its natural course and has priced many of us out of the market. What I’m saying is happening NOW with Criterion is that they are making more overtly conscious choices of what lands on the channel and what gets reserved for disc. In other words, the channel represents the safety net for the tightrope balancing disc division.

The worse thing Criterion could do now is get into the deluxe limited edition market as that will blow up soon enough. But they did seem to wait too long to go 4K and now are playing catch up. In my personal view, I think the discs will continue for awhile, but it may become more and more obvious to us on the outside looking in what will be a disc possibility and what will end up a Channel exclusive.

As an example, I wonder what’ll happen with Antonioni’s Il Grido. Antonioni’s a household name in Criterionville, but I just can’t see them going 4K with that title even though Janus has just recently released a 4K restoration for the repertory circuit. It’s one of Antonioni’s more obscure films. It would be like releasing Bresson’s Lancelot Du Lac or Four Nights of a Dreamer on 4K. The Mother and the ***** hasn’t been outside the TSPST top 120 in over a decade, so it has a certain profile the Antonioni film doesn’t. The same applies to Werckmeister Harmonies, which is one of the marquee arthouse films of the aughts.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by mande2013

As an example, I wonder what’ll happen with Antonioni’s Il Grido. Antonioni’s a household name in Criterionville, but I just can’t see them going 4K with that title even though Janus has just recently released a 4K restoration for the repertory circuit. It’s one of Antonioni’s more obscure films. It would be like releasing Bresson’s Lancelot Du Lac or Four Nights of a Dreamer on 4K. The Mother and the ***** hasn’t been outside the TSPST top 120 in over a decade, so it has a certain profile the Antonioni film doesn’t. The same applies to Werckmeister Harmonies, which is one of the marquee arthouse films of the aughts.

Interestingly, IL GRIDO is my favorite Antonioni film and I would love to have a Blu or 4K edition of it from Criterion, but I bet you’re right that we probably won’t.

[mande2013]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

I consider The Criterion Channel to be the greatest network in the history of television since TCM first started. Even if I watched 2 films per day on The Criterion Channel I would never get to see everything I want to see. It’s an amazing service.

For sure, although there’s room for improvement on some of the streams in terms of compression, Alice in the Cities being one of the bigger offenders. Kings of the Road and The American Friend, on the other hand, are perfectly watchable on the channel.

I’ve never reached out to Criterion about bad compression on the Channel (well maybe I did actually but with little success), but I’ve had success when reaching out to them about having an older master of a film on the Channel than what they’d released on Blu-ray. I once told them they were streaming an older DVD era master of An Autumn Afternoon on the Channel even though they’d released a 4K-sourced Blu-ray, and they promptly updated the stream. I did the same for Marriage of Maria Braun, as well.

[Gacivory]

Originally Posted by JoelGoodsen

No SubUrbia(1996) or Sideways 4K again? No worries. I'm fine.

Calm down and have some Merlot!

[Watershipdownisgood]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

For me at this point, it's not that there isn't enough Japanese films coming out, because there is, and there will be a lot more coming. The issue is that Criterion and ONLY Criterion has some of my favorites.

Hunter in the Dark has been my most wanted film to be released on disc since 2009 when I found out they had it. It was one of their first Japanese films streaming in HD too. I also thought it was a shoe in for a DVD or Blu-ray, but it never happened. I would import that title in two seconds flat even with my anti import issue, but I've been told that it's off limits in the UK because of Criterion.

This is just one example of many. I really do wish if Criterion was certain they wouldn't release certain films on disc that they would be willing to sub license. That would truly be nice as well give them some extra added income.

I think Criterion might have to sub license at some point to other labels if not I don’t think they’ll last much more than 10 years. Sorry I hate to say it, but many other labels are beating them to the punch these days if they don’t start licensing titles out they won’t survive more than 10 years that is if they’re still around that is.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by Watershipdownisgood

I think Criterion might have to sub license at some point to other labels if not I don’t think they’ll last much more than 10 years. Sorry I hate to say it, but many other labels are beating them to the punch these days if they don’t start licensing titles out they won’t survive more than 10 years that is if they’re still around that is.

Yeah, Criterion reminds me of Carl Fredricksen from Up, refusing to sell his house. Eventually he had to let go of that house and realized he didn't need it as much as he thought. Criterion doesn't need to hoard all these films with a Vulcan death grip. They can share some of the wealth of films they have and we all would be better for it. They can keep streaming those films on their channel and don't have to give up those rights, but it would be great if they can license out some of their stuff. Even big boys like Apple seem willing to do it. Criterion can bite their lip a little bit and just let go...

[JoelGoodsen]

Originally Posted by Gacivory

Calm down and have some Merlot!