The Criterion Collection

[Member-682067]

Originally Posted by NeoNical

Seems like they have same restorations, perhaps different transfers? Who knows? They list it as new digital restorations but I hope these films will look different from the StudioCanal Blu-ray a while ago because I didn't heard all great stuff about it (Compression and contrast being the ones that I remember hearing). I don't have a region free player so I can't get the StudioCanal boxset (If I had the chance tbh, I would've bought it long ago, same with Le Cercle Rouge and Breathless).

Highly recommend obtaining a region free player. Saves money and gives you more options. Better selection as well.

[Bn43]

Originally Posted by koberulz

I misremembered, I have mine set to Straight, which is apparently supposed to do everything correctly. The Dolby Surround mode wants to create a virtual Atmos track by the sound of it.

I've never heard of Straight. Sounds like Direct, because I don't know how the receiver would know if it's a matrixed track and use the correct multichannel setting. I couldn't see any written difference between normal 2.0 and matrixed 2.0 when I looked at the information in MPC-HC with two rips I made. For PCM for example, both look like this:

Format: PCM
Format settings: Little / Signed
Codec ID: A_PCM/INT/LIT
Channel(s): 2 channels

Dolby Surround is the correct way to decode matrixed surround sound. I've tried it with just Ghost in the Shell, Akira, parts of My Own Private Idaho and Buffy the Vampire Slayer (I'm on season 2, the DVD.) so far, all of which are 2.0 surround sound, and didn't hear anything come from the overhead speakers, only the main speakers and surrounds. Now, with 5.1 tracks, I can hear sound coming from the overhead speakers, so I always watch those in Direct. I recently watched Single White Female and didn't realize until after that it has such a soundtrack. That was is in DTS 2.0 and my receiver doesn't give me the option for Dolby Surround in that case, only DTS Neural:X. I don't know if it's the same as 2.0 in Dolby Surround or if it adds sounds to the overheads. I know that with 5.1 and 7.1 Neural:X adds to the overheads, but I'm not sure about 2.0. Hopefully not.

It frustrates me not knowing which movies I've been watching the wrong way.

[swamptours]

Does anyone know current Criterion titles that are close to being OOP. Thanks.

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by Bn43

I've never heard of Straight. Sounds like Direct, because I don't know how the receiver would know if it's a matrixed track and use the correct multichannel setting. I couldn't see any written difference between normal 2.0 and matrixed 2.0 when I looked at the information in MPC-HC with two rips I made. For PCM for example, both look like this:

Format: PCM
Format settings: Little / Signed
Codec ID: A_PCM/INT/LIT
Channel(s): 2 channels

Dolby Surround is the correct way to decode matrixed surround sound. I've tried it with just Ghost in the Shell, Akira, parts of My Own Private Idaho and Buffy the Vampire Slayer (I'm on season 2, the DVD.) so far, all of which are 2.0 surround sound, and didn't hear anything come from the overhead speakers, only the main speakers and surrounds. Now, with 5.1 tracks, I can hear sound coming from the overhead speakers, so I always watch those in Direct. I recently watched Single White Female and didn't realize until after that it has such a soundtrack. That was is in DTS 2.0 and my receiver doesn't give me the option for Dolby Surround in that case, only DTS Neural:X. I don't know if it's the same as 2.0 in Dolby Surround or if it adds sounds to the overheads. I know that with 5.1 and 7.1 Neural:X adds to the overheads, but I'm not sure about 2.0. Hopefully not.

It frustrates me not knowing which movies I've been watching the wrong way.

The manual makes it sound as though "Dolby Surround" is one of the 'fake surround' modes, enabling you to take a stereo source and then kick it into all the other speakers, creating your own revisionist remix. But I'm not sure.

When the straight decode mode is enabled, the unit produces stereo sound from 2 channel sources such as CDs, and produces unprocessed multichannel sounds for multichannel sources.

Dolby Surround: Use the Dolby Surround decoder suitable for all sources. A real acoustic space (including overhead) will be created especially when object-based audio (such as Dolby Atmos content) is played.
Neural:X: Use the DTS Neural:X decoder suitable for all sources. A real acoustic space (including overhead) will be created especially when object-based audio (such as DTS:X content) is played.
Neo:6 Cinema: Uses the DTS Neo:6 decoder (or DTS-ES Matrix decoder) suitable for movies. Sounds will be output from the surround/surround back speakers.
Neo:6 Music: Uses the DTS Neo:6 decoder (or DTS-ES Matrix decoder) suitable for music. Sounds will be output from the surround/surround back speakers.

[StarDestroyer52]

Originally Posted by swamptours

Does anyone know current Criterion titles that are close to being OOP. Thanks.

Unless they lose the rights to the film like with The Third Man, there shouldn't be anything going OOP.

[Bn43]

Originally Posted by koberulz

The manual makes it sound as though "Dolby Surround" is one of the 'fake surround' modes, enabling you to take a stereo source and then kick it into all the other speakers, creating your own revisionist remix. But I'm not sure.

But what I'm saying is that's what you're supposed to do when the information intended for all the other speakers is in only two channels. So it's not revisionist, it's purist. I don't know how matrixed audio works, but you can tell it's a genuine surround sound track.

When the straight decode mode is enabled, the unit produces stereo sound from 2 channel sources such as CDs, and produces unprocessed multichannel sounds for multichannel sources.

What this says is that a 2.0 track will only play from two speakers and a 5.1 track will play from six channels, like with Direct. Which is the correct way to play audio in every other situation.

Oh, and I've tried with some Gamecube games that have Dolby Pro Logic II.

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by Bn43

But what I'm saying is that's what you're supposed to do when the information intended for all the other speakers is in only two channels. So it's not revisionist, it's purist. I don't know how matrixed audio works, but you can tell it's a genuine surround sound track

But the description sounds like it'll kick things to the back/ceiling speakers regardless of whether it's supposed to or not.

And having to know what type of track you're playing in order to set your receiver up correctly seems silly.

[Bn43]

Originally Posted by koberulz

But the description sounds like it'll kick things to the back/ceiling speakers regardless of whether it's supposed to or not.

Again, I can't tell anything is coming from the Atmos speakers when I watch 2.0 surround sound tracks in Dolby Surround, with any of the examples I mentioned, but I sure can hear the surrounds. Geoff D told me the same thing after I mentioned this in the Ghost in the Shell 4K thread.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

This doesn't count for much, given my cloth ears and poor experience with 'Atmos' back when I had an AVR, but I couldn't detect any height/overhead stuff when using Dolby Surround to upmix an Lt/Rt 2.0 track either. It definitely worked with 5.1 stuff and up, some of the club scenes in American Psycho upmixed rather nicely into the heights, but for a 2.0 source DS appears to just unfold it into a typical channel-based arrangement rather than frakking about with the heights....and good thing too.

And having to know what type of track you're playing in order to set your receiver up correctly seems silly.

I'd rather be silly and listen to the audio how it's meant to be listened to. I just have to press a button on my remote a few times. You're doing yourself a disservice by watching everything in Straight, although it's usually the correct option.

Still looking for more of these. Looks like My Own Private Idaho is a rare example for Criterion. They normally just release Dolby Stereo movies in 5.1. Looks like I may have screwed up Sign o' the Times' PCM too, a movie originally released in Dolby Stereo. But I'd love to watch it again soon anyway.

[randian]

The Killing and Following have coupons on Amazon that bring them below the $20 price point. Just click on the coupon on the product page before adding to your cart.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by Gerby

Would've preferred some movies from Bunuel's Mexican period like El & The Criminal Life of Archibaldo de la Cruz.

Los Olvidados and Robinson Crusoe as well.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by koberulz

But the description sounds like it'll kick things to the back/ceiling speakers regardless of whether it's supposed to or not.

nah, that's just marketing fluff. Dolby Surround is simply the modern replacement for Pro Logic, it steers stuff into the Atmos heights when playing 5.1 or 7.1 discrete audio but when playing 2.0 tracks it's smart enough to apply the conventional channel-based LCRS matrixing as per Dolby Stereo, albeit with a bit of sweetening as per Pro Logic 2 to derive decorrelated full range rears and stuff like that.

And having to know what type of track you're playing in order to set your receiver up correctly seems silly.

Eh, only to lazy people who don't want to have to think about it. I get that this is the modern age where convenience is king (or queen) but it still boggles my mind how so many people who are into home cinema are just completely unaware that matrixed Lt/Rt audio tracks are a thing. But once you know it's a thing, and realise that 99.9% of "stereo 2.0" tracks on movies made after the late '70s are Dolby Stereo LCRS matrixed into 2.0, you just switch your AVR to the required mode. It really doesn't have to be some agonising decision.

[nitin]

The Ascent is a terrific film but I wished they had also upgraded Shepitko's Wings at the same time which is a masterpiece in my eyes.

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by Bn43

I'd rather be silly and listen to the audio how it's meant to be listened to. I just have to press a button on my remote a few times. You're doing yourself a disservice by watching everything in Straight, although it's usually the correct option.

I'm not saying you're silly, I'm saying the design of the system is silly.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

nah, that's just marketing fluff. Dolby Surround is simply the modern replacement for Pro Logic, it steers stuff into the Atmos heights when playing 5.1 or 7.1 discrete audio but when playing 2.0 tracks it's smart enough to apply the conventional channel-based LCRS matrixing as per Dolby Stereo, albeit with a bit of sweetening as per Pro Logic 2 to derive decorrelated full range rears and stuff like that.

What if I'm listening to genuinely-stereo, or to mono?

Eh, only to lazy people who don't want to have to think about it. I get that this is the modern age where convenience is king (or queen) but it still boggles my mind how so many people who are into home cinema are just completely unaware that matrixed Lt/Rt audio tracks are a thing. But once you know it's a thing, and realise that 99.9% of "stereo 2.0" tracks on movies made after the late '70s are Dolby Stereo LCRS matrixed into 2.0, you just switch your AVR to the required mode. It really doesn't have to be some agonising decision.

But how do you know whether it's stereo or surround, is my point. When is "the late 70s"? What movies constitute that 0.1%? Etc.

Plus, being aware it's a thing. Like...TIL, and I've been watching movies for a decade.

[TAC]

Does the criterion sale start only on Tuesdays?

[Bn43]

Originally Posted by koberulz

But how do you know whether it's stereo or surround, is my point.

Would like to know this too. So, I take it it's safe to assume almost any American/UK and many Japanese movies made after 1977 (?) are in surround. Or do you have to look at the credits first or test the audio to be sure?

What about television shows and music videos? I would have assumed older TV shows in 2.0 were simply 2.0, but there are exceptions like The X-Files. I'd long wondered if the 5.1 on my Blu-rays was a completely new mix, but a moment ago I actually bothered to look and learned it was made from matrixed stereo. Doesn't surprise me, since the surrounds are used quite a bit, but it does surprise me that they made television shows for home theater enthusiasts back then.

[koberulz]

Gave it a whirl with my Home Alone DVD, which I have listed as Dolby Surround on my media server. Got really tinny awful dialog coming from the rears. Surely that's not right?

[Bn43]

Originally Posted by koberulz

Gave it a whirl with my Home Alone DVD, which I have listed as Dolby Surround on my media server. Got really tinny awful dialog coming from the rears. Surely that's not right?

Don't know. Is it a 2.0 stereo track? If it's 5.1, then there's no need to.

I may have found some in your collection.

LPCM 2.0:
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Leon-...Blu-ray/13527/
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Bound-Blu-ray/104511/

DTS 2.0:
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Water...lu-ray/244490/

Try decoding those in Dolby Surround. I don't know if you'll have the option with Waterworld.

I just tested my American copy of Bound by Olive Films, which only has compressed Dolby Digital (AC3) 2.0, but it's definitely a surround soundtrack. The audio comes from the front, while the surrounds add to the music and sound effects. Oh hell, gonna rewatch the whole movie now.

[hariseldon]

Originally Posted by TAC

Does the criterion sale start only on Tuesdays?

Only - no, but most of them have been and and all the Q1 sales


8-Sep-2011 THURS
24-Sep-2012 MON
1-Oct-2013 TUES
9-Oct-2014 THUR
6-Oct-2015 TUES
17-Oct-2016 MON
17-Oct-2017 TUES
16-Oct-2018 TUES
15-Oct-2019 TUES


14-Feb-2012 TUES
26-Feb-2013 TUES
25-Feb-2014 TUES
10-Mar-2015 TUES
23-Feb-2016 TUES
28-Feb-2017 TUES
13-Feb-2018 TUES
5-Mar-2019 TUES
25-Feb-2020 TUES

[Bueller]

My copy of Dead Man arrived from Amazon with a loose disc. OK, that happens, so I opened right away. Turns out it's a two-disc case and the front hub doesn't really work. The disc seems fine, but I have to slide it in the back slot where a Disc 2 usually lives. Strange.

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

nah, that's just marketing fluff. Dolby Surround is simply the modern replacement for Pro Logic, it steers stuff into the Atmos heights when playing 5.1 or 7.1 discrete audio but when playing 2.0 tracks it's smart enough to apply the conventional channel-based LCRS matrixing as per Dolby Stereo, albeit with a bit of sweetening as per Pro Logic 2 to derive decorrelated full range rears and stuff like that.

Are you sure about that? I definitely get stuff placed into my ceiling speakers when using 2.0 stereo tracks with Dolby Surround. This article suggests it's normal and describes the method by which the upmixer achieves it:

https://rantingsofamadaudiophile.wor...s-dts-neuralx/

I don't think I have an option to limit 2.0 upmixing to LCRS unless I specifically tell the receiver that I am not running a height based set up.

Even from a "purist" perspective it doesn't bother me though, I figure the Surround element of a 2.0 stereo mix is simply wherever the speakers are placed. If a cinema back in the 80s had speakers on the rear left, the rear right, rear centre and on the ceiling, the mono surround effects would have been sent to all of em, no? Not that I imagine any old cinemas actually had ceiling speakers, I'm just saying if...