The Criterion Collection

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by DimitriL

He said last year he wasn't venturing out in public because he had severe emphysema and couldn't risk getting sick. His producer said last week that he was evacuated from the LA fires and I can't help wondering if that was a contributing factor. I can't deal with this horrible, horrible news.

It can't be said enough: DO NOT SMOKE. It is not cool or rebellious, it is stupid and will rot you down to being a frail nothing in the end.

[Watershipdownisgood]

Nooooooo

Not David Lynch he was one of my favorite directors of all time now gone this hits hard honestly I lost two of my favorite people in January, and December that being my grandma, and David Lynch.

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

However, at the same time I also have to state that it's not as easy as that to dismiss the practice because I see no reason why scalpers should reap all the benefits when a title goes OOP. So on that level I support a rerelease from a reputable label specifically when a title goes OOP.

I’ll also say this much: it’s frustrating to me - maybe illogically so - that one label should have HD rights to a title and another label has 4k rights. MGM should never have split it up in the first place. I found it confusing and frustrating and arbitrary - especially since we’re not talking about, well, the studio put out a bare-bones version, but now Kino or Arrow or Criterion are building on it with a beautiful new SE.

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

It can't be said enough: DO NOT SMOKE. It is not cool or rebellious, it is stupid and will rot you down to being a frail nothing in the end.

One thousand percent. If there’s anything about Lynch that made me angry, it was his fetishizing of his smoking habit. I know he loved it, but dammit, it’s how I lost my dad and it’s not sexy and it’s not cool.

[The Sovereign]

Originally Posted by DimitriL

I’ll also say this much: it’s frustrating to me - maybe illogically so - that one label should have HD rights to a title and another label has 4k rights. MGM should never have split it up in the first place. I found it confusing and frustrating and arbitrary - especially since we’re not talking about, well, the studio put out a bare-bones version, but now Kino or Arrow or Criterion are building on it with a beautiful new SE.

That

[eightslicesofpie]

RIP to a legend, truly one of the all-time greats

[G_MOVIES]

Just wanted to pay my respects to David Lynch. Lynch, Scorsese and De Palma are the three directors that as a teenager made me start to see film as something other than just fun diversions. Back in high school I'd spend hours at the library xeroxing interviews and articles with these and other directors.

Like many others, I saw Elephant Man as a 10-year-old kid and it devastated me. Around the same time, I have weird dream-like memories of sneaking into the living room late at night and catching parts of Eraserhead. In short, watching Lynch's movies was exciting in a way that few other films were to me at the time.

The day after Xmas I was in the mood for some classic cinema and decided on a whim to re-watch Blue Velvet. There's so many layers to that movie. Watching it again I was reminded why I love films so much. And it's all thanks to creative people like the one and only David Lynch.

[Ishai]

Originally Posted by drownsoda

I was suspicious when I saw that recent rash of Kino 4Ks (all Criterion crossovers) going out of print after only a couple of years.

It was clear from the comments made by KLI and Tarzi on the Kino podcast that they weren't happy about it, they even had plans for a boxset that they had to scrap. They were fully expecting the license to be renewed and the only reason it wasn't is because Criterion wants to release it in 4K on their own.

I expect them to release all of those former KL titles over the next year.

Originally Posted by JAKS88

The Kino version of "Some Like It Hot" is already flawless, so I won't be double dipping on that. I will be happily buying the others, though.

I already own all of these KL 4Ks, so won't be picking them up but there are plenty of people who stuck with their Criterion BDs who might upgrade now, so good for them. Hopefully it's an "extra" release every month like it seems to be for April

[Ishai]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

However, at the same time I also have to state that it's not as easy as that to dismiss the practice because I see no reason why scalpers should reap all the benefits when a title goes OOP. So on that level I support a rerelease from a reputable label specifically when a title goes OOP.

This is not the same as titles going OOP because a label didn't want to renew a license and no one else picking it up. It's not the same scenario scalpers benefit from. You're presenting it as if Criterion is doing the right thing by picking up titles that went OOP when the reality is they forced those titles to go OOP.

Originally Posted by DimitriL

I’ll also say this much: it’s frustrating to me - maybe illogically so - that one label should have HD rights to a title and another label has 4k rights. MGM should never have split it up in the first place. I found it confusing and frustrating and arbitrary - especially since we’re not talking about, well, the studio put out a bare-bones version, but now Kino or Arrow or Criterion are building on it with a beautiful new SE.

I'm pretty sure this happened because at the time Kino made that deal Criterion wasn't interested in doing 4Ks. In fact, it may very well be that seeing Kino grab those licenses got Criterion to get off their ass with 4K.

Can't blame MGM for licensing it out to someone else when Criterion didn't want it. It's a business, they still want to make money. Also, if Criterion didn't want to release 4Ks and Kino was the only way for us to get these movies in 4K, that's a good thing for MGM to do. It would be much worse if Criterion had the 4K license and still sat on the format for years

[javy]

Damn.

[CRASHLANDING]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

So on that level I support a rerelease from a reputable label specifically when a title goes OOP.

In this case, though, the only reason they went OOP in the first place was so that Criterion could release their own 4K versions. KLI made it pretty clear they were not giving up those films willingly. It's almost as though the KL releases were a loophole, after Criterion failed to secure the 4K rights for films they thought they controlled. Maybe MGM even wanted to send Criterion a message that "if you aren't ready to release films in 4K, we'll find someone that is."

I suspect this whole episode helped to pull Criterion into the 4K market. If so, then it ultimately ended well for us consumers, even if the trip included a few detours.

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by Ishai

Can't blame MGM for licensing it out to someone else when Criterion didn't want it. It's a business, they still want to make money. Also, if Criterion didn't want to release 4Ks and Kino was the only way for us to get these movies in 4K, that's a good thing for MGM to do. It would be much worse if Criterion had the 4K license and still sat on the format for years

I certainly can blame them. When has this ever happened, where one boutique had HD and another had 4k? One company should have all the SE physical media rights and this was a cheap loophole. It should’ve been either Kino or Criterion with all the SE rights and it’s entirely bc of bs situations like this. I don’t care if they had the rights to do that. I resent it as a consumer.

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by CRASHLANDING

In this case, though, the only reason they went OOP in the first place was so that Criterion could release their own 4K versions. KLI made it pretty clear they were not giving up those films willingly. It's almost as though the KL releases were a loophole, after Criterion failed to secure the 4K rights for films they thought they controlled. Maybe MGM even wanted to send Criterion a message that "if you aren't ready to release films in 4K, we'll find someone that is."

I suspect this whole episode helped to pull Criterion into the 4K market. If so, then it ultimately ended well for us consumers, even if the trip included a few detours.

It’s also quite possible that MGM went to Criterion and asked an exorbitant fee for the 4k rights on titles which were, in many cases, pretty fresh releases, and Criterion balked at what they saw as a shakedown. I mean, if you put out a disc, and like a year later, MGM says, sure you can have 4k rights for as much as you paid in the first place? I wouldn’t consider that square dealing. Speculation, of course. I agree that it did generally end well for consumers in terms of getting Criterion off the pot.

(One other thing - the MGM that made the 4K deal with Kino is NOT the Amazon-owned MGM of today. This current one may have been a lot more receptive than the old regime to deal with Criterion on more favorable terms.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by Watershipdownisgood

Nooooooo

Not David Lynch he was one of my favorite directors of all time now gone this hits hard honestly I lost two of my favorite people in January, and December that being my grandma, and David Lynch.

I'm so sorry to hear about your grandmother, Watership. I know what's that like and I would give anything to be able to spend time with any of my grandparents again, who are all passed. You have all my sympathy and empathy, my friend.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by Ishai

This is not the same as titles going OOP because a label didn't want to renew a license and no one else picking it up. It's not the same scenario scalpers benefit from. You're presenting it as if Criterion is doing the right thing by picking up titles that went OOP when the reality is they forced those titles to go OOP.

How do you know this? Did the KLI ever specifically state that Criterion pulled the rug out from under them and legally demanded they stop selling these titles on 4K? I'm not doubting what you say is true, I just haven't seen that information definitively confirmed anywhere without any speculation or equivocation.

[Scottie]

I couldn't have said it better.

[CRASHLANDING]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

How do you know this? Did the KLI ever specifically state that Criterion pulled the rug out from under them and legally demanded they stop selling these titles on 4K? I'm not doubting what you say is true, I just haven't seen that information definitively confirmed anywhere without any speculation or equivocation.

These things are almost never publicly confirmed, nor can we know if the licenses were truly revoked or simply "not renewed" when KL expected they would be. But it was pretty easy to tell from KLI's comments that they did not expect to lose the titles and were not happy about it.

The fact that Criterion announced Some Like It Hot just weeks after those Kino discs went out of print seems like further support for that narrative.

[MifuneFan]

For those that may have noticed the audio listings for Thief 4K, Godzilla vs Biollante, and now Jean de Florette / Manon of the Spring being 5.0 Surround now rather than the typical 5.1, I reached out to Criterion to find out if this was an error and this is the response they provided:

Hi Michael,

Thanks for your interest in our upcoming 4K UHD releases.

There are no errors in these descriptions. As an example, the audio for THIEF on the 4K UHD is the same as the Blu-ray, approved by Director Michael Mann, but we have recently decided to list a film's actual channel status rather than the codec's channel status.

It's common practice in the industry to call all types of surround sound 5.1 but this is not accurate. A 5.1 codec can contain many different audio channel configurations - 5.1, 5.0, 4.0, LCRS, even 1.0 for example - and we've decided to list those on packaging to better represent the film's audio content.

In this case, 5.0 simply means that the LFE channel is silent, as it has always been, but is now conveyed more accurately in our product description.
When you select the Blu-ray, it still says 5.1 because that's how it's listed in our previously produced packaging, but you will continue to see this more precise formatting for disc audio information going forward.

I hope this helps,
Jon Mulvaney

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by CRASHLANDING

These things are almost never publicly confirmed, nor can we know if the licenses were truly revoked or simply "not renewed" when KL expected they would be. But it was pretty easy to tell from KLI's comments that they did not expect to lose the titles and were not happy about it.

The fact that Criterion announced Some Like It Hot just weeks after those Kino discs went out of print seems like further support for that narrative.

It doesn't really portray Criterion in a very good light, does it? As others have said, their wasting so much time committing to 4K releases is likely what precipitated the situation and then they undermine KINO for moving on an opportunity? Well, it is a business after all and not a charity.

[ShellOilJunior]

Sad to hear the news about David Lynch passing.

One of the great things Criterion has done over the past 40 years was to mend fences with Lynch and get his movies released. He will be missed.

RIP