The Criterion Collection

[jw007]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Virtually nobody is issuing booklets with Blu-rays. Certainly not the "majors".

I know. It's funny because there still is an empty space on the other side where the disc is that I always feel would be complete with a small pamplet in general. There is even a little "clip" which would hold a piece of paper and such. I guess every now and then you might get a little booklet or pamphlet if its a special collectors edition or something from a smaller studio (most recently I bought a numbered edition from Grindhouse Releasing and there was a nice 15-20 page booklet included).

Anyway, having anything other than a disc is considered a bonus and will always be that way with DVD/blu-ray releases.

Originally Posted by Vinyl

As I said earlier, I love reading the booklet. That said, I will read it when I first get it and than maybe a few months to a year or more later.

I am a bit of a hypocrite. I complain about a lack of booklets in Criterion releases and I'm one of those people who don't have the patience to read them before/after watching the film. You're a great example of someone who practices what you preach and actually read the literature (even multiple times).

[octagon]

Originally Posted by jw007

Have you guys (or anyone else here for that matter) seen that film Idiocracy? Do I sense that people today don't read as much as they used to? Is it that people no longer have the time or patience to sit down and read booklets and essays that accompany home video releases? Maybe its just a current trend of paper no longer being viable or "cool" for reading now with e-books and tablets with digital books being more convenient. I'm thinking modern society is slowly getting more illiterate or stupid and the latest sign is with Criterion (a most scholarly-minded video distribution company) nixing extensive booklets from their video releases.

Okay, I know I just wrote something incredibly "far out" and ludicrous to even suspect all this, but its still something to "chew on". Think about it, maybe people just want to watch the movie and no longer care about essays these days.

Which part of this is 'incredibly far out'?

People have been bemoaning supposed cultural decline for thousands of years.

Before the internet and tablets, MTV was going to destroy minds. Before MTV, television itself was going to produce generations of illiterate, mind-numbed zombies. And so forth and so on all the way back to Cato exhorting Romans to return Rome to the greatness of its agrarian roots.

People read. They're just not reading these booklets. Or they're just reading them once.

Also, I think the booklets are in part a victim of Criterion's success. A lot of my purchases are blind buys. So I don't want to read essays before seeing the film. And I like to check out a supplement or two after a film. What gets lost in the shuffle? The booklets.

[Clare2904]

Originally Posted by hoytereden

When the monthly announcements are made two things I now look for in the special features are: audio commentaries and booklets. One is getting scarcer and the other is seemingly near extinction.

These are what makes a Criterion special, the Extras. If they start to skimp on these then where is the justification for buying their version. Sure, their scope is wide but the English films will be less attractive.

[jw007]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Yes, jw007, in this case you should save as much as you can and wait a bit longer until prices come down. Right now Sony have some enormously impressive 4K projectors announced but they are well over the 10K mark. You will also need a high-quality projector screen, but prices there are very affordable.

With TVs you are paying for a much wider range of features, though I personally am not a fan of the interactive offerings. But I understand that TVs are a lot more practical if space is an issue.

Pro-B

So I'm guessing it might be 3 or 4 years before prices fall to under $3,000 for a solid 4k projector? I guess I can wait a while longer.

Funny how you say that "TVs are a lot more practical if space is an issue" because they are much larger than projectors but obviously don't require a separate screen or white painted wall. So its a bit of a catch-22 for space.

I agree too, as a purist, that I don't really care at all about interactive features or internet built in... all I care about is a quality product that does one thing and one thing only but does it great: project movies. I have no interest in 3D or interactivity. I just want a powerful projector, with massive resolution and contrast ratio, bright lamp, quiet fan and effective lens shift.

[jw007]

Originally Posted by octagon

Which part of this is 'incredibly far out'?

People have been bemoaning supposed cultural decline for thousands of years.

Before the internet and tablets, MTV was going to destroy minds. Before MTV, television itself was going to produce generations of illiterate, mind-numbed zombies. And so forth and so on all the way back to Cato exhorting Romans to return Rome to the greatness of its agrarian roots.

People read. They're just not reading these booklets. Or they're just reading them once.

Also, I think the booklets are in part a victim of Criterion's success. A lot of my purchases are blind buys. So I don't want to read essays before seeing the film. And I like to check out a supplement or two after a film. What gets lost in the shuffle? The booklets.

You hit the nail on the head here. Good job.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Also, the reason I encouraged you to actually go and see what you like is because it is an absolute myth that you have to buy a very big set (65'/70'+) to see a difference.

Originally Posted by The_Iceflash

A myth indeed. More like reality.

Of course though if you're sitting 3 feet from the screen...

But isn't that kind of the point? The size of the screen itself isn't a solitary factor. You also have to take into consideration the size of the room you're watching in. It's the same with audio: you need to take into account the size and shape of the room to determine what would be the most effective.

[WonderWeasel]

Another long multi-quote reply...

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by Polaroid

The BBC (I think) did a series of adaptations and modernised them, I loved the Macbeth one with James Mcavoy as the chef. I'll see if I can dig some stuff out to put here, they were quite good though!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0453514/

Heres Macbeth on Youtube:

Macbeth - 1 of 9 - YouTube

Watched back in 2005 so it may not be as good as I remember, the cast was great though and did a superb job and I remember it being a very emotional - but check it out

I'm about halfway through the James McAvoy 'Macbeth' you posted. I love the dark humor. The garbagemen (err... bin men) are hilarious!

Originally Posted by James78

WonderWeasel, this thread may be of use/interest to you:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=202624

Thanks, James! I have a feeling I'll be looking through that thread A LOT

Originally Posted by Meek12345

Thanks for the replies WonderWeasel! I hope you will enjoy your Shakespeare marathon. You have convinced me to move up Olivier's Richard the III on my watchlist. Hopefully, it will be on Hulu Plus for a few more days at least. Also, I guess I am in the minority in feeling that Titus is worth a rental. I am a fan of Anthony Hopkins and recall his performance and the film experience as a whole to be "far out" in a good way. It isn't for the squeamish or faint of heart though.

Olivier was so good in 'Richard III'. He plays an arrogant, narcissistic a**hole almost too well.

I take it 'Titus' is even bloodier than Polanski's 'Macbeth'?

Originally Posted by Andrew13

Apologies if this was noted when the article was first published a few weeks ago, but it looks like a blu-ray release of Chimes at Midnight, whether via Criterion or some other company, could be coming in the near future:

https://distribpixblog.wordpress.com...s-at-midnight/

It would certainly make a nice pairing with Criterion's impending release of Othello this fall...

I was just reading about this, because I saw 'Chimes at Midnight' on a "Best Shakespeare Film Adaptations" list, though I didn't know Welles's 'Othello' was getting released. Thanks for the info

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by Polaroid

Ive stopped caring about Oscars, just because a film or actor has an oscar it doesn't make it amazing.

Look at Lubezski - he has lost so many times and he is one of the greatest cinematographers working today (IMO!) he even lost to Hugo... I mean come on.

Based on that comment, I'd say that it's more accurate to say "just because a film or actor doesn't have an Oscar doesn't make it not-amazing".

And whether or not a particular person has won an Oscar has less to do with whether they are worthy of one and more to do with who their competition was.

Oscars are not carved in stone and handed down to mankind by some deity. They are voted on my a group of people who are no different than any other group of people. They all have their likes and dislikes, biases and prejudices.

I'm always interested in seeing who and what get nominated and/or win. But I've never based my interest in seeing or not seeing a film on whether or not it or the people involved won an Oscar.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by jw007

I know. It's funny because there still is an empty space on the other side where the disc is that I always feel would be complete with a small pamplet in general. There is even a little "clip" which would hold a piece of paper and such. I guess every now and then you might get a little booklet or pamphlet if its a special collectors edition or something from a smaller studio (most recently I bought a numbered edition from Grindhouse Releasing and there was a nice 15-20 page booklet included).

It's rare these days that you even get a one-sided sheet with a listing of the chapter stops. That used to be de rigueur for DVDs. These days, the best you can usually expect is a sheet explaining how to access a digital copy.

[Polaroid]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Based on that comment, I'd say that it's more accurate to say "just because a film or actor doesn't have an Oscar doesn't make it not-amazing".

And whether or not a particular person has won an Oscar has less to do with whether they are worthy of one and more to do with who their competition was.

Oscars are not carved in stone and handed down to mankind by some deity. They are voted on my a group of people who are no different than any other group of people. They all have their likes and dislikes, biases and prejudices.

I'm always interested in seeing who and what get nominated and/or win. But I've never based my interest in seeing or not seeing a film on whether or not it or the people involved won an Oscar.

I'm half asleep, just got off long shift lol I may have mis wrote what i said lol

[format916]

if your favorite movie wins the oscar then its credible; if not the oscars have always been a joke.

[Polaroid]

Originally Posted by format916

if your favorite movie wins the oscar then its credible; if not the oscars have always been a joke.

I never said that lol, there are many films I love that got Oscars but I didn't think they were 'worthy' compared to competition.

When I look for films, I don't judge it on the 'oscar' title they use to sell films lol. It's like the Bafta's, Birdman won best cinematography and as you know I love that film and Lubeszki, but I felt Ida was more deserving to win.

In a way I think its slightly wrong to put films up against each other though - cause sometimes they are equally great in their own ways...

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by Polaroid

In a way I think its slightly wrong to put films up against each other though - cause sometimes they are equally great in their own ways...

Competition is a part of human nature. That's why sports and award shows are so popular. People are obsessed with what's "the best".

[hoytereden]

Originally Posted by jayembee

It's rare these days that you even get a one-sided sheet with a listing of the chapter stops. That used to be de rigueur for DVDs. These days, the best you can usually expect is a sheet explaining how to access a digital copy.

Yes, I remember the early days of dvd when companies like Anchor Bay not only treated us to niche titles but also would have the chapter stop card on one side and a miniature poster on the other.

[jmclick]

Okay, this is just my personal perspective, but I feel the Criterion label has a certain cachet ... a prestige ... that other labels don't. The company itself has molded my expectations. When I buy a Criterion product, I have been taught to expect: superlative picture and audio quality; a wealth of bonus content on the disc; deluxe packaging with provocative artwork; and a printed booklet that contains an essay and credit information that I can refer to as I'm watching the film. I also expect to pay a comparatively high MSRP; to be offered limited promotions; and for their titles to be treated as specialty, niche products that aren't going to show up in a discount bin at Wal-Mart for $7.88, or on a cardboard display at Best Buy for $4.99, making me feel like a doofus for having paid $20.00 last month for that same title during the Criterion 50% Off Sale.

That's the unspoken "gentleman's agreement" I have with the company. Sure, we both "cheat" a little bit: I have my Barnes & Noble coupons, and they don't always include some of the expected bonus features which are de rigueur within the industry, like theatrical trailers ... but in general, both sides follow the rules. I don't always super-discount everything down as low as I could so they will continue to be profitable for retailers, and on occasion, they will lower the MSRP on a title that is light on bonus features (The Uninvited, I Married a Witch, Ministry of Fear, etc.). You gotta give and take a little in every successful relationship.

What is going to upset the proverbial applecart is a dramatic change in the overall rules of the game, as established by Criterion. I like the booklets, and I'm willing to compromise by accepting a fold out without staples that is the same size as a booklet, and as easy to handle; but I'm not happy about being given a multi-folded road map that is going to show wear and tear the first time I look at it. I prefer the clear plastic cases and will accept a digi-pak if it's absolutely necessary, but don't think that you can go to a standard blu-ray case and keep me happy. I display my Criterion titles separately because they're special to me ... unlike my Olive Films and Kino titles which are mixed in with the rest of my collection, because I'm annoyed by the paucity of extras those companies offer on their discs.

Okay, so that's my two cents worth. Now if someone will be kind enough to help me down ...? Standing on a soapbox always makes me a little dizzy.

[soarinsteven]

Originally Posted by Polaroid

Ive stopped caring about Oscars, just because a film or actor has an oscar it doesn't make it amazing.

Look at Lubezski - he has lost so many times and he is one of the greatest cinematographers working today (IMO!) he even lost to Hugo... I mean come on.

Lubezki's been nominated 7 times, he won last year, and will likely win a second Oscar tomorrow. He's doing all right.

Roger Deakins on the other hand....After tomorrow he'll be 0 for 12. :/

[CinemaBlu]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Based on that comment, I'd say that it's more accurate to say "just because a film or actor doesn't have an Oscar doesn't make it not-amazing".

And whether or not a particular person has won an Oscar has less to do with whether they are worthy of one and more to do with who their competition was.

Oscars are not carved in stone and handed down to mankind by some deity. They are voted on my a group of people who are no different than any other group of people. They all have their likes and dislikes, biases and prejudices.

I'm always interested in seeing who and what get nominated and/or win. But I've never based my interest in seeing or not seeing a film on whether or not it or the people involved won an Oscar.

I love the Academy Awards because I see them as sort of a Hollywood version of a State of the Union address. Regardless of whether the recipient deserves the Oscar or not, it's always interesting to see who's getting endorsed by the Hollywood establishment with either a nomination or win.

[hoytereden]

Originally Posted by CinemaBlu

I love the Academy Awards because I see them as sort of a Hollywood version of a State of the Union address. Regardless of whether the recipient deserves the Oscar or not, it's always interesting to see who's getting endorsed by the Hollywood establishment with either a nomination or win.

I used to religiously watch the Oscars every year from the Bob Hope hosted years forward. It was a special event on TV because it was the only movie awards show there was. Now, it seems almost every other week leading up to the Acadamy Awards is showing some kind of awards show so that by the time the Oscars roll around frankly I'm burnt out on awards presentations.

[CinemaBlu]

Originally Posted by hoytereden

I used to religiously watch the Oscars every year from the Bob Hope hosted years forward. It was a special event on TV because it was the only movie awards show there was. Now, it seems almost every other week leading up to the Acadamy Awards is showing some kind of awards show so that by the time the Oscars roll around frankly I'm burnt out on awards presentations.

I pretty much ignore all the other ones. I read who won later but don't watch them. The Oscars is the only one I watch from beginning to end.

[lordmorpheus72]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

If you are both going to be on the market soon, I would strongly recommend saving a bit more if you can and invest into a nice 4K projector. While the current line of 4K TVs is very nice, projecting in 4K will offer you a completely different experience.

Even without native 4K content at the moment on a disc, the upscaling produces very impressive results -- especially if a transfer has been struck from an excellent 4K restoration (as it is the case with the Petri film, which bstv69 mentions). In terms of color reproduction, you will see massive improvements -- and these also will affect your perception of image depth.

4K will be an extension to Blu-ray, so you won't have to worry about anything. But I would encourage you to actually wait a bit and when finalized 4K Blu-ray players are on the market, spend a good amount of time testing projectors and TVs.

If a new 4K TV is all you can afford, then find a showroom in your city and compare LG's OLED line with the rest of the 4K displays. This upcoming set is definitely worth taking a look at:

http://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-77EG9700-oled-tv

And one last note, don't discard your DVDs. There are many films on DVD that are mastered quite well, and you will be surprised to see how good 4K upscaling can be if the studio did a decent job.

Have a great weekend, guys.

Pro-B

Thanks for the details on this Pro-B. I've been torn on this subject for a while... even so much as putting off buying a new, bigger, TV. As I stated earlier, I love my plasma and the color, motion, and darks are simply incredible. It took me years to get rid of my HD Flatscreen tube TV, I just got my plasma 2 years ago or so.

I looked at an OLED the other day, but they obviously leave the TV on all day, playing the same 20 second clip, so there was a big line burned in half have across the screen. That was a little disappointing, but chalked that up to it being a demo unit they don't take care of.

I've looked at a few 4Ks as well and they look pretty good. What I really need to do is find a real sudio showroom in my area and just go hang out one day, take a few movies with me, and see what I like. I've thought about projectors in the past, but never had the room... though for a big fight many years ago I "borrowed" one from work and had a "gathering" at my house. There are just so many options now, and new technologies... I get worried about upgrading. That and I still love my plasma.

Thanks again Pro-B, you're a real help here and give some great advice on movies, and hardware too it seems!