The Criterion Collection

[regeyer]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I wouldn't say they were late to the Blu-ray bandwagon at all. Studios were still divided between the formats, so it didn't make a lot of sense for Criterion to choose BD, when it's possible (though maybe not likely) that HD-DVD could come out on top. It wasn't until January 2008 that Warner dropped support for HD-DVD, marking the beggining of the end for that format, and the war. Criterion announced their first lineup of Blu-ray titles in May 2008.

I think they likely played it safe, and they may be doing that now. UHD numbers are falling. The have their own streaming service now, which may allow for 4k in the future. I would not be at all shocked if they pass on UHD. UHD is the last physical media, and it would not surprise me in the least if streaming surpasses UHD quality eventually.

[NeoNical]

As much as I would love Criterion to go 4K at this point (I've been a strong believer of both wanting 4K and still buying DVDs so basically I'm a hypocrite at times), if Criterion has to get their entire collection into 4K, then I don't want that to happen. Criterion still has so much titles they haven't released on Blu-ray yet and if 4K was to come in the way where they re-release big titles, then it probably would be a LOT worse for the wait time of those expecting their DVD titles to upgrade into Blu-ray. If Criterion already upgraded all their DVDs that they own the rights to (Not the OOP ones), then I would feel comfortable for them going to 4K. Some of my favorite titles, and anything from Seijun Suzuki, are still on DVD so I'd rather wait on a Blu-ray release than having the possibility of waiting even more for the 4K version. I love 4K but if it's going to make some of Criterion's smaller titles longer to get on HD, I would rather let them stay on Blu-ray for now and let some of the underrated titles get their own moments of stardom.

[tkearns1@emich.edu]

Originally Posted by BenOswald

The number one reason all this endlessly pining about 4kUHD on this thread is utterly exhausting is that there is still a metric s**tton of DVD releases that have never seen an upgrade to Blu.

I'll be far more tickled to see even 10% of these titles upgraded to blu than any single 4kUHD release.

How many blu ray upgrades would have to be sacrificed for 1x dumb 4kHD disc?

Isn't this a false dilemma? I don't imagine that the movies getting a 4K UHD release are preventing distributors from securing the rights to and upgrading the movies you want to see get a blu-ray release. Either the distributor believes there's a market that'll make it tenable and worth while to release them or not. Same with 4K UHD upgrades. I don't necessarily buy that they're in competition.

I also don't think there's much of a hastle or annoyance in expressing an interest in having nice 4K UHD Criterion discs while also acknowledging that you like what they do wtih blu-ray discs and hope they continue to release movies that have never had a proper blu-ray release.

[Cremildo]

Originally Posted by LordSummerIsle

Criterion's mission statement: "Since 1984, the Criterion Collection has been dedicated to publishing important classic and contemporary films from around the world in editions that offer the highest technical quality and award-winning, original supplements. No matter the medium—from laserdisc to DVD and Blu-ray to streaming—Criterion has maintained its pioneering commitment to presenting each film as its maker would want it seen, in state-of-the-art restorations with special features designed to encourage repeated watching and deepen the viewer’s appreciation of the art of film."

The highest technical quality in whatever format they work with, obviously. Check out the next sentence: "No matter the medium—from laserdisc to DVD and Blu-ray to streaming—"...

[sonicyogurt]

Originally Posted by Reddington

but what titles should Criterion release to satisfy the UHD crowd?

For what it's worth, I agree with much of what's been argued about why it doesn't necessarily make sense for Criterion to release any titles on Ultra HD Blu-ray, and I've raised many of these same points myself elsewhere on the forum.

[Show spoiler]And I also think there are bad faith arguments being made by some who've invested so much of who they are into their collections that they can't stomach the prospect of something better coming along. It's not enough for them to pass on any hypothetical Criterion UHD releases; no one else should be allowed the option either. But that's another story, and I'm certainly not accusing you of that.

I'd love to be surprised but have zero expectation that Criterion will ever release a title on the format, and I get it. But a few things:

There is a market for at least some of these films. A number of Criterion titles have been released or announced on the format by other labels, among them It's a Wonderful Life, Blade Runner, The Wizard of Oz, 2001, Ghostbusters, Lawrence of Arabia, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Dr. Strangelove, Spartacus, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Halloween, Akira, Crash, Videodrome, Chungking Express, In the Mood for Love, Easy Rider, Don't Look Now, Pan's Labyrinth, The Princess Bride, Parasite, and The Elephant Man. And that's not including the many films not released by Criterion but very much in that same vein.

The format is accessible to boutique labels. At the start of last year, there literally wasn't a single boutique release on these shores. Since then, Kino Lorber Studio Classics, Arrow Video / Arrow Academy, Shout Select, Blue Underground, Synapse Films, Discotek, and Vinegar Syndrome (and perhaps others I'm forgetting) have released or announced their first titles. All but Synapse have indicated continued support. And that's in addition to boutique labels overseas like Second Sight, Turbine Media, Elephant Films, Camera Obscura, Le chat qui fume, etc.

I'm not blind to the fact that most Criterion films aren't viable on the format as things stand and likely won't ever be. I recognize the additional challenges posed by licensors who cap Criterion at Blu-ray, so potential UHD successes like War of the Worlds, The Elephant Man, and Parasite would never have been in the cards for them. And I realize that the labels listed above have released titles in very small numbers as yet, and the boutiques most directly comparable to Criterion haven't embraced the format to date at all. There have been a number of successes. There is no demonstrated scale.

But there are titles that I do think would succeed. Films with more mainstream appeal such as Silence of the Lambs and The Princess Bride would be obvious candidates. The filmmakers most associated with the Collection -- Tarkovsky, Truffaut, Kurosawa, Bergman, Fellini, the Coens, The Archers, Lynch, Hitchcock, Kubrick, Cronenberg, Anderson, etc. -- all have titles I believe would perform well. If Criterion were ever to revisit titles like Beauty and the Beast, The Leopard, or Wages of Fear (each of which already have 4K masters ready to go), Ultra HD Blu-ray could make a reissue more alluring.

I'm not condemning Criterion for steering clear of the format. It hasn't affected my Criterion purchases on any meaningful scale. I'm watching more of their films on Blu-ray now than I have in several years, as I've been revisiting so many of my favorites with my wife. But it is a bit frustrating to see so many smaller boutiques experiment with the format while Criterion remains on the sidelines. Lee Kline's comments about UHD only being consequential when projected onto a very large screen and his near-dismissal of HDR leave me a bit puzzled as well. It'd be one thing to say that the market just isn't there yet, but it's another to suggest that there's not really a point when there are so many UHD BDs that clearly indicate otherwise.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by BamaDullard

Those damned Little 4Ksters.

The weasely mother4Kers!

[jw007]

I envision a near future where companies like Criterion are able to upgrade their entire back catalog (including laserdiscs and DVDs) to 4K streaming video and the Criterion Channel streaming service will be the only way to watch all of their movies in 4K. It's possible that their physical media will no longer be manufactured when that happens (due to a lack of financial revenue).

If people think 4K UHD is a dying media, then what will be the point of 8K UHD?

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by sonicyogurt

The format is accessible to boutique labels. At the start of last year, there literally wasn't a single boutique release on these shores. Since then, Kino Lorber Studio Classics, Arrow Video / Arrow Academy, Shout Select, Blue Underground, Synapse Films, Discotek, and Vinegar Syndrome (and perhaps others I'm forgetting) have released or announced their first titles. All but Synapse have indicated continued support. And that's in addition to boutique labels overseas like Second Sight, Turbine Media, Elephant Films, Camera Obscura, Le chat qui fume, etc.

But notice that only one of the Big Four boutique labels in the UK is trying UHD. Arrow, yes. But not Eureka, Indicator, or BFI. It's nice that a bunch of the smaller boutiques are giving UHD a shot, but it's early days yet. For all any of us know, boutique UHDs will be a flash in the pan and dead within a year.

[HillSprinter]

Why don’t the 4Ksters start buying film prints if they’re so obsessed with getting more detail?!

[sonicyogurt]

Originally Posted by HillSprinter

Why don’t the 4Ksters start buying film prints if they’re so obsessed with getting more detail?!

Film prints have less detail than a 4K scan of the OCN.

[BenOswald]

Originally Posted by tkearns1@emich.edu

Isn't this a false dilemma? I don't imagine that the movies getting a 4K UHD release are preventing distributors from securing the rights to and upgrading the movies you want to see get a blu-ray release. Either the distributor believes there's a market that'll make it tenable and worth while to release them or not. Same with 4K UHD upgrades. I don't necessarily buy that they're in competition.

I also don't think there's much of a hastle or annoyance in expressing an interest in having nice 4K UHD Criterion discs while also acknowledging that you like what they do wtih blu-ray discs and hope they continue to release movies that have never had a proper blu-ray release.

Not really, seeing as we are all speculating about someone else's business model. Clearly CC doesn't feel 4k is a viable business venture at this point, and there's tons of easily visible reasons why. Any company that goes into a (risky) new venture will pull resources from a different area, and in this case may split the market, so yeah, I don't want them to waste their time monkeying with an unproven format.

As to discussing on this forum. Every. Time. Any. New. Release. Is Mentioned someone bemoans like a broken record: wHy iSnT cRiTerIoN dOiNg fOuR K ?????

[dumb_dutchman]

Has anyone ever preordered a title directly from Criterion.com? Do they ship on release date...or hopefully a little early?

I preordered Come and See and The Cameraman from them a couple of months ago, along with The Cranes Are Flying & Death by Hanging...thinking they would ship the two in stock items in the meantime, which didn’t happen.

Just getting anxious. I’ve been waiting literally years for a Come and See release, but the last few weeks have been tough.

[Shanghai Express]

Originally Posted by dumb_dutchman

Has anyone ever preordered a title directly from Criterion.com? Do they ship on release date...or hopefully a little early?

I’ve preordered three or four Criterions this year and all of them have shipped around a week before release date. My most recent Criterion.com order (The Cameraman), was delivered on release day.

[NeoNical]

Originally Posted by sonicyogurt

Film prints have less detail than a 4K scan of the OCN.

Do film prints have less detail than a Blu-ray or nah? Just wondering out of curiosity but I don't have enough money to afford a legit film projector and film print.

[acroyear2]

I'm hearing some claim that DVD outsells Blu for Criterion, but usually if a title I want is sold out on Blu from the B&N sale or Criterion's own online store, there are still DVD copies available. At least that's my observation.

[Reddington]

Originally Posted by acroyear2

I'm hearing some claim that DVD outsells Blu for Criterion, but usually if a title I want is sold out on Blu from the B&N sale or Criterion's own online store, there are still DVD copies available. At least that's my observation.

Others have posted that the driver is sales to libraries and other institutions, in addition to individual customers.

Also, 99% of the Criterion titles in my three local B&N stores are BD. So, I assume those in the market for the DVD buy online or order in-store.

[HillSprinter]

Originally Posted by sonicyogurt

Film prints have less detail than a 4K scan of the OCN.

Depends on the quality of the film stocks, the methods used to strike the prints, and skills of the technicians, much like any digital conversion from film source.

[thatguamguy]

Originally Posted by acroyear2

I'm hearing some claim that DVD outsells Blu for Criterion, but usually if a title I want is sold out on Blu from the B&N sale or Criterion's own online store, there are still DVD copies available. At least that's my observation.

That doesn't necessarily indicate how many copies they had to start with.

[Animatic33]

I must say, HDR plus a wider colour gamut does wonders for older and newer films alike, black and white and colour. It's not just 4k detail I'm after now, it's that wonderful dynamic contrast and lighting you can now only get from UHD discs and 4k streams. It's almost like you're viewing a pristine accurately lit piece of film on a theatre screen in your own home. I am guessing that no doubt the folks over at Criterion are looking at films like recent Sony 4k catalogue releases and see things they'd love to do with their own catalogue but are hindered by the large scale investment it would take.

Now, more than ever, do I day-dream about what some films will look like with HDR, and I cannot wait for Criterion to get on that bandwagon.

[Bn43]

Originally Posted by Animatic33

I must say, HDR plus a wider colour gamut does wonders for older and newer films alike, black and white and colour. It's not just 4k detail I'm after now, it's that wonderful dynamic contrast and lighting you can now only get from UHD discs and 4k streams. It's almost like you're viewing a pristine accurately lit piece of film on a theatre screen in your own home. I am guessing that no doubt the folks over at Criterion are looking at films like recent Sony 4k catalogue releases and see things they'd love to do with their own catalogue but are hindered by the large scale investment it would take.

Now, more than ever, do I day-dream about what some films will look like with HDR, and I cannot wait for Criterion to get on that bandwagon.

Would love to see Rainer Werner Fassbinder's exuberant colors in HDR. I'm just glad Arrow distributes most of his movies as well. Gives me a little hope.