Sony Black Crush on late-2014 / early-2015 BDs

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

I don't think there is really anything wrong with Fury. To me the Polish BD looks too bright. Some people seem to think that all exposed shadow detail is supposed to be visible. And again, Fury PQ got top marks from practically every reviewer. And to pass that off as some kind of conspiracy theory ("oh, we have to give it a top score, otherwise they'll stop sending us free copies") is being incredibly naive.

Can't speak for The Interview though, but since one review (from HDD) already brought it up, there is probably some truth in that. But in any case, the amount of shadow detail that is intended to be seen is a very gray area (and believe it or not, is also affected by how well your TV is calibrated and able to produce black). If The Interview is too dark, how do we know that the UV/DVD version is also not wrong? (being too bright).

That's a straw man argument. Even if the UV/DVD versions are too bright, the BD is still too dark. Moreover, as James Luckard has posted repeatedly, just compare the movie to the clips used in the special features.

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by jscoggins

That's a straw man argument. Even if the UV/DVD versions are too bright, the BD is still too dark. Moreover, as James Luckard has posted repeatedly, just compare the movie to the clips used in the special features.

As I said earlier, that means absolutely nothing. Special features could've been assembled before the film's final color grading, so that's certainly no definitive comparison. Often, special features are put together in advance, just like promo clips for media. They don't always match because the film is still being tweaked.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

As I said earlier, that means absolutely nothing. Special features could've been assembled before the film's final color grading, so that's certainly no definitive comparison. Often, special features are put together in advance, just like promo clips for media. They don't always match because the film is still being tweaked.

Even if that's the case, the bottom line is when the shots of the film in the trailers and extras look better than the main feature itself, there's a problem.

[DavePS3]

Many previews and demo discs have been color corrected for how they much pop they want. As an example, Fury's previews on other discs doesn't have the tint that the actual film on BD has. Or... the 4K demo of After Earth on the Sony 4K hardrive pumps the greens WAY up. The actual film on BD even on the Sony panel does not have this effect.

As for the black crush on ANY panel, that usually happens becuse the contrast or Cel Light is cranked up and brightness too low. Here's a good guideline... Avengers movie... when Iron Man flys out of the water after installing the power coupler, you see a skyline of the city. The ONLY building in all of those that should be black, is the one to the far right. That should be your blackest point of contact. All the other buildings should be lighter. If all the buildings are just black, you have the wrong settings in there.

[oleus]

if i force black crush on my ps3 (using rgb expanded), and play The Interview on Netflix, it looks like these BD screen caps. Restoring to normal settings, detail returns even to the dark scenes.

[Pecker]

Originally Posted by mar3o

Even if that's the case, the bottom line is when the shots of the film in the trailers and extras look better than the main feature itself, there's a problem.

The alternative caps of Fury do not look better than the Blu-ray Disc.

They look bright and washed out, with a little more low level shadow detail, which was quite possibly not meant to be seen.

Whether the low level information was meant to be seen is open to question. Whether the film is supposed to look bright and washed out is not.

In other words, whilst the Blu-ray may or may not be correct, the 'bright' versions definitely aren't.

Steve W

[vargo]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

I don't think there is really anything wrong with Fury. To me the Polish BD looks too bright. Some people seem to think that all exposed shadow detail is supposed to be visible. And again, Fury PQ got top marks from practically every reviewer. And to pass that off as some kind of conspiracy theory ("oh, we have to give it a top score, otherwise they'll stop sending us free copies") is being incredibly naive.

It's quite possible that the Polish BD is too bright. I don't want to speak in too much depth about whether it is 'right' or not until I have my own copy.

However that does not excuse or change the fact that the US BD suffers from crushed blacks. There is no question about that. I saw Fury theatrically and I can say that :
a) I don't recall such comically crushed blacks
b) I recall details that are simply not present in the US BD (interior tank textures etc).

If I was the only one saying it then I might be inclined to doubt my recollection but several people have said pretty much the same.

What reviewers say or do is irrelevant because the vast majority of 'problem' Bluray releases over the years have gone unnoticed by reviewers and its been forum members such as myself who have flagged the issues.

[David M]

Originally Posted by vargo

I don't have time to frame-match them all but here is two:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/113594
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/113596

Is that a direct grab from the US BD? Not some sort of rip of it?

If so, the compression really isn't so hot either. That's not seriously the work of Sony, is it?

EDIT: Caps-a-holic has captures taken from the disc and the compression is fine (different gamma, though).

Did you post pictures of a ripped and recompressed version?

[digihed]

I bought The Interview and am just now reading about this issue. This is disappointing. Luckily I bought it at Walmart and haven't opened it yet so I'll be returning. I already had the UV version I can watch on Vudu anyway. I'll stick with the digital version until I hear they corrected this disc.

This isn't the first time I've seen differences between blu-ray transfers and the digital versions on Vudu. Has anyone noticed the difference between the Vudu and blu-ray transfers of Mud? I tried watching the Vudu version and it is WAY too bright and washed out. The black bars are grey on my plasma. The transfer on the disc is fine. I know Mud is a Lionsgate title but I think it has the opposite problem as these Sony titles. I haven't checked the Vudu version lately, they could have fixed it, but I doubt it.

[HD Goofnut]

I sure wish someone could match those Fury caps on caps-a-holic with caps from the 4K release.

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by vargo

What reviewers say or do is irrelevant because the vast majority of 'problem' Bluray releases over the years have gone unnoticed by reviewers and its been forum members such as myself who have flagged the issues.

Exactly. Literally NONE of the online reviewers caught on to the TNG S1 audio glitches until consumers started watching the episodes in their entirety.

[tama]

Originally Posted by Lyris

Is that a direct grab from the US BD? Not some sort of rip of it?

If so, the compression really isn't so hot either. That's not seriously the work of Sony, is it?

1 looks to bright-essh, the other to dark-essh???

Maybe a happy medium between the two?

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by jscoggins

Exactly. Literally NONE of the online reviewers caught on to the TNG S1 audio glitches until consumers started watching the episodes in their entirety.

Yep, and no reviewers caught the switched audio tracks on FRANTIC. Many people even questioned and criticized me for doubting the disc, until I got proof the tracks were indeed mistakenly switched and got the disc corrected and reissued.

[metallic]

I dont understand the people saying all the other versions look washed out. The black levels in the Polish Blu-ray, DVD release and the Blu-ray special feature scenes are not elevated or grey. The parts the image that are total black have the same black level as the Sony Blu, its just they aren't missing all the other detail that has been removed in the clipped version.

The fact that we now have a retail BD releases from other distributors that match the DVD, Digital/UV copies and scenes from the special features only further shows that something went wrong with this release. The Sony Blu-ray is the odd one out, all the other versions are consistent.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by metallic

I dont understand the people saying all the other versions look washed out. The black levels in the Polish Blu-ray, DVD release and the Blu-ray special feature scenes are not elevated or grey. The parts the image that are total black have the same black level as the Sony Blu, its just they aren't missing all the other detail that has been removed in the clipped version.

The fact that we now have a retail BD releases from other distributors that match the DVD, Digital/UV copies and scenes from the special features only further shows that something went wrong with this release. The Sony Blu-ray is the odd one out, all the other versions are consistent.

I disagree about the Polish BD. It is too bright and is much brighter than the DVD and UV versions.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I sure wish someone could match those Fury caps on caps-a-holic with caps from the 4K release.

The only way (AFAIK) you can get a screen capture of the 4K Fury would be to have a 4K monitor with an HDCP 2.2 input.

I'll have to double check the shadow details when I get a chance with the BD/UV.

[HD Goofnut]

Looks like the TW disc is brighter as well: http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...less=1#auswahl

[metallic]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I disagree about the Polish BD. It is too bright and is much brighter than the DVD and UV versions.

I haven't seen any matching scenes but the Polish release looks to be the same to me.

Caps-a-holic have added a BD from an Asian distributor and you can compare with the the DVD and see that apart from the obvious resolution and compression differences they are the same.

In this shot http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/113594 you can also see that the whites have been clipped in the Sony BD as the curtain detail has been lost, which would also be a result of the image being expanded to "PC levels"

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Looks like the TW disc is brighter as well: http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...less=1#auswahl

Now we have two foreign BDs roughly matching the American digital versions, with the Sony BD still the only dark outlier.

I hope THE INTERVIEW gets released by another distributor in some market, so we can have a similar comparison.

It would be a reeeealy unlikely coincidence if three BDs from one studio in one month were darker than every other available version of those titles domestically and overseas, and the three dark BD versions were somehow actually the correct ones...

[HD Goofnut]

Does anyone have a link on where the TW disc can be purchased? At least we know it's region A compatible.