2025 Major League Baseball Thread

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by Tcan21

Im a Braves fan as well and that was my first thought as well...hopefully the Braves dont stand pat with the Uggla trade, probably still need another outfield bat.

Halladay
Lee
Oswalt
Hamels

Maddux
Glavine
Smoltz
Avery/Neagle

And all four have plenty of good years (4+) left, assuming injuries don't mount. I suppose Kendrick will be their #5 starter.

Halladay - 33 years old
Lee - 32
Oswalt - 33
Hamels - 26

[Wingman1977]

Originally Posted by toef

Perhaps, but I think their grudge only lasts until the M's have something new the Yankees want.

As Chad said, it wouldn't hurt the Yankees to test the waters on a Hernandez deal, but the M's would probably ask for a lot.

The Red Sox reportedly tried to trade for Hernandez last year (mid-2009 season) and the Mariners wanted a lot for him. Now coming off a Cy Young season, I suspect they'd want even more.

The main two reasons I don't see the deal happening are:

1) The M's are trying to build a team, and are waiting on a few prospects to develop, and then maybe have a successful Cinderella type season. Trading their ace away would be a set-back to those plans.

2) George Steinbrenner died. If this were a couple years ago, and the Yankees just lost their most sought-after free agent to another team, George would be throwing a fit, and go after a new big signing, regardless of the cost. Cashman, Hank and Hal aren't as reactive, which (in the long run) is probably a good thing.

The boss had mellowed out with that after he was reinstated back in 93. He basically let his GM/front office people take care of the signings but Mr. Steinbrenner had the final say. They really started going on huge spending in the 2001 off season (signing Jason Giambi is what started it all).

Now, with all that said, I don't get Cliff Lee. He wanted 7yrs and the Yankees basically gave him that (6yrs and a player option for the 7th) but he then goes to the Phillies for only 5 yrs (with a option for a 6th)? something doesn't add up. Did the alleged "incident" involving his wife had that much of a burden on his turning the Yankees down? I would have understood if he returned to the Rangers (which were close in their own offer to the Yankees) but he smubbed them as well. There something else there that we don't know about that deal that lured him back to Philly.

[toef]

Originally Posted by Wingman1977

The boss had mellowed out with that after he was reinstated back in 93. He basically let his GM/front office people take care of the signings but Mr. Steinbrenner had the final say. They really started going on huge spending in the 2001 off season (signing Jason Giambi is what started it all).

Now, with all that said, I don't get Cliff Lee. He wanted 7yrs and the Yankees basically gave him that (6yrs and a player option for the 7th) but he then goes to the Phillies for only 5 yrs (with a option for a 6th)? something doesn't add up. Did the alleged "incident" involving his wife had that much of a burden on his turning the Yankees down? I would have understood if he returned to the Rangers (which were close in their own offer to the Yankees) but he smubbed them as well. There something else there that we don't know about that deal that lured him back to Philly.

I honestly don't think the incident with his wife had anything to do with his decision. He just liked his time in Philadelphia, and probably wanted to go back to something familiar, that he knew he liked, than try something new that might be better (the Yankees) or stay with something he liked less (the Rangers, since he clearly liked Philly more).

Who knows if he really wanted 7 years, or if that's just what the Yankees/Rangers decided was a way to one-up each other. Or maybe Lee was stringing those teams along, waiting for Philly to figure out what kind of deal they could come up with.

I know it'll sound like a Yankee fan rationalizing, but I'm not too bothered he didn't go to the Yankees. 7 years of $20m+ per year is a lot of time and money to commit to someone based on two good post-seasons. I don't imagine he'll completely drop off talent-wise next season, but 3 years from now? 4? Who knows. 7 years is a huge risk. Still, it would've been nice to have him, at least for the playoffs, for the next year or two.

[toef]

Originally Posted by sawzalot

We never spit on Cliff Lees Wife

I came across this article in a different forum, where people were debating which city had the worst fans. Everyone in Philly seemed to think Philly's fans were just average in terms of terribleness, but everyone else thought it was Philly.

All teams and cities have their terrible fans, I just think Philadelphia takes it up a notch.

So, anyway, here's a top 9 list of some classy Philly fan moments (note: not all are baseball-related):

#9 — A drunk Phillies fan vomits all over an 11-year-old girl (April 14, 2010) — Not the whole story, guy. This game was on a Wednesday night. What was this girl doing out late at a game on a school night, huh? All this guy did was give her an up close lesson on the human digestive system. I can’t believe we’re at the point in this country that we’re criticizing people for trying to educate kids.


#8 — Eagles fans cheer as Michael Irvin lay injured and motionless (October 11, 1999) — What?! You LIKE spinal cord injuries or something? Why would we cheer for it? Huh? Why? We were booing, like: “Boooooooooo. Paralysis sucks! Boooooooo.” You’re the sick one for not booing, man.


#7 — Phillies fans routinely throw batteries at Dick Allen, the team’s only black player (1960s) — Sure, don’t tell the whole story. The rest of the story is that Allen started wearing a batting helmet while he was in the field at home games. That kept him safer than any other player out there. But did we ever get a single thanks from him? No. But what can you expect from a lazy, ungrateful black.


#6 — Phillies fans throw trash and D-cell batteries at Cardinals outfielder J.D. Drew (August 10, 1999) — Bull crap. There haven’t been any D-cell batteries in Philly since the ’60s. We chucked them all at that dick Allen.


#5 — A teenage Phillies fan runs onto the field and is Tasered by a police officer (May 3, 2010) — I won’t apologize for this. It was for the kid’s own safety. He shouldn’t be on the field. He could get hit by a battery out there.


#4 — Phillies fans throw glass bottles all over the field in response to an umpire’s call (August 21, 1949) — So what. It was a stressful time. World War II and everything.


#3 — Flyers fans attack St. Louis Blues fans and the team’s head coach (January 6, 1972) — Ooooooh. Look at the nerd who paid attention in history class. So it wasn’t exactly World War II then. You think you’re smarter than me, fag?


#2 — Eagles fans boo Santa Claus and pelt him with snowballs (December 15, 1968) — Oh, here we go again with this one. All anyone talks about is Philly fans hitting Santa Claus with snowballs. It was MORE THAN 40 YEARS AGO! GET OVER IT! Plus, that’s not the real story. It’s like no one cares about accuracy. Here’s the really story … A) the guy was not actually Santa Claus; it was a guy in a Santa suit; B) he was drunk; and C) he wan’t pelted with snowballs. He was beaten to death with a tire iron. It was my Uncle Mikey who did it. So get your f—king facts straight, jack-off.


#1 — Philadelphia installs a jail, judge and court inside Veterans Stadium to deal with unruly Eagles fans (1998)— Huh. Hmm. Yeah, well that kind of makes it seems like there might be some sort of problem. Maybe you have a point. Well, you’re just lucky we’ve got stuff like that to protect you, ‘cause I’d kick your homo ass. E-A-G-L-E-S, Eagl-(vomits).

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by toef

I came across this article in a different forum, where people were debating which city had the worst fans. Everyone in Philly seemed to think Philly's fans were just average in terms of terribleness, but everyone else thought it was Philly.

All teams and cities have their terrible fans, I just think Philadelphia takes it up a notch.

So, anyway, here's a top 9 list of some classy Philly fan moments (note: not all are baseball-related):

#9 — A drunk Phillies fan vomits all over an 11-year-old girl (April 14, 2010) — Not the whole story, guy. This game was on a Wednesday night. What was this girl doing out late at a game on a school night, huh? All this guy did was give her an up close lesson on the human digestive system. I can’t believe we’re at the point in this country that we’re criticizing people for trying to educate kids.


#8 — Eagles fans cheer as Michael Irvin lay injured and motionless (October 11, 1999) — What?! You LIKE spinal cord injuries or something? Why would we cheer for it? Huh? Why? We were booing, like: “Boooooooooo. Paralysis sucks! Boooooooo.” You’re the sick one for not booing, man.


#7 — Phillies fans routinely throw batteries at Dick Allen, the team’s only black player (1960s) — Sure, don’t tell the whole story. The rest of the story is that Allen started wearing a batting helmet while he was in the field at home games. That kept him safer than any other player out there. But did we ever get a single thanks from him? No. But what can you expect from a lazy, ungrateful black.


#6 — Phillies fans throw trash and D-cell batteries at Cardinals outfielder J.D. Drew (August 10, 1999) — Bull crap. There haven’t been any D-cell batteries in Philly since the ’60s. We chucked them all at that dick Allen.


#5 — A teenage Phillies fan runs onto the field and is Tasered by a police officer (May 3, 2010) — I won’t apologize for this. It was for the kid’s own safety. He shouldn’t be on the field. He could get hit by a battery out there.


#4 — Phillies fans throw glass bottles all over the field in response to an umpire’s call (August 21, 1949) — So what. It was a stressful time. World War II and everything.


#3 — Flyers fans attack St. Louis Blues fans and the team’s head coach (January 6, 1972) — Ooooooh. Look at the nerd who paid attention in history class. So it wasn’t exactly World War II then. You think you’re smarter than me, fag?


#2 — Eagles fans boo Santa Claus and pelt him with snowballs (December 15, 1968) — Oh, here we go again with this one. All anyone talks about is Philly fans hitting Santa Claus with snowballs. It was MORE THAN 40 YEARS AGO! GET OVER IT! Plus, that’s not the real story. It’s like no one cares about accuracy. Here’s the really story … A) the guy was not actually Santa Claus; it was a guy in a Santa suit; B) he was drunk; and C) he wan’t pelted with snowballs. He was beaten to death with a tire iron. It was my Uncle Mikey who did it. So get your f—king facts straight, jack-off.


#1 — Philadelphia installs a jail, judge and court inside Veterans Stadium to deal with unruly Eagles fans (1998)— Huh. Hmm. Yeah, well that kind of makes it seems like there might be some sort of problem. Maybe you have a point. Well, you’re just lucky we’ve got stuff like that to protect you, ‘cause I’d kick your homo ass. E-A-G-L-E-S, Eagl-(vomits).

This one didn't happen within the confines of a stadium but it happened on the streets during a Philly World Series celebration. Some Phillies moron climbed on top of a street light like 20 feet in the air only to get smashed in the head by a PERFECTLY thrown liquor bottle, which sent him tumbling to the ground. It happens about 48 sec into the video. One of the coolest things I've ever seen. Only in Philly!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bZk7BIdCns

[Hi-Def Steve]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

This one didn't happen within the confines of a stadium but it happened on the streets during a Philly World Series celebration. Some Phillies moron climbed on top of a street light like 20 feet in the air only to get smashed in the head by a PERFECTLY thrown liquor bottle, which sent him tumbling to the ground. It happens about 48 sec into the video. One of the coolest things I've ever seen. Only in Philly!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bZk7BIdCns

Holy shit! LOL

[supersix4]

Originally Posted by Hi-Def Steve

Holy shit! LOL

lmao and thats how they treat each other.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by toef

I know it'll sound like a Yankee fan rationalizing, but I'm not too bothered he didn't go to the Yankees. 7 years of $20m+ per year is a lot of time and money to commit to someone based on two good post-seasons. I don't imagine he'll completely drop off talent-wise next season, but 3 years from now? 4? Who knows. 7 years is a huge risk. Still, it would've been nice to have him, at least for the playoffs, for the next year or two.

I get what you're saying. The Yankees have really been burned by quite a few massive starting pitcher contracts over the past decade. Here are some of the more ridiculous ones I found.

Kevin Brown - made over $30 mill for 35 mediocre starts
Randy Johnson - made over $32 mill over 2 average seasons
Jaret Wright - $21 mill
Carl Pavano - $44 mill
Kei Igawa - $46 mill
Hideki Irabu - $12 mill
Jeff Weaver
Kei Igawa

[toef]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

I get what you're saying. The Yankees have really been burned by quite a few massive starting pitcher contracts over the past decade. Here are some of the more ridiculous ones I found.

Kevin Brown - made over $30 mill for 35 mediocre starts
Randy Johnson - made over $32 mill over 2 average seasons
Jaret Wright - $21 mill
Carl Pavano - $44 mill
Kei Igawa - $46 mill
Hideki Irabu - $12 mill
Jeff Weaver
Kei Igawa

Haha, Kei Igawa was so bad he's listed twice. Irabu I think was ok, or at least not a crapload of money. The Yankees just wanted their own Hideo Nomo, and got Hideo No-Nomo instead.

Kevin Brown and Carl Pavano are the main two that stand out, I think, for most Yankee fans.

Brown, of course, punched a wall walking back to the clubhouse, which put him out for the rest of the '04 season. He came back for the playoffs, but he might as well have stayed home, since he's responsible for the loss in Game 7 of the ALCS, to the Red Sox (he gave up 5 runs, and got pulled only 1 out into the 2nd inning).

And then there's Pavano, the true "American Idle". He averaged 3 wins per season in his 3 seasons as a Yankee (though, to be fair, it's really only 2 seasons, because he bruised his butt in spring training one year, and was out until August. Then a couple days before he was supposed to return, he got into a car accident, broke a few ribs, and took the rest of the year off).

[Hi-Def Steve]

So has there ever been a mega multi year contract for a pitcher that has worked out?

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Hi-Def Steve

So has there ever been a mega multi year contract for a pitcher that has worked out?

CC Sabithia comes to mind but I also think Francisco Liriano is going to get a huge payday from someone, especially if he keeps improving coming off that Tommy John surgery that took some of the heat off his arm.

[Hi-Def Steve]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

CC Sabithia comes to mind but I also think Francisco Liriano is going to get a huge payday from someone, especially if he keeps improving coming off that Tommy John surgery that took some of the heat off his arm.

I should have qualified my question with pitchers that aren't currently in the beginning of their contracts. Rather those who have played all the years of their contract.

[toef]

Originally Posted by Hi-Def Steve

So has there ever been a mega multi year contract for a pitcher that has worked out?

In terms of Yankee deals, I think Mussina worked out pretty well. He went 92-53 over those 6 years, and stuck around for a couple after that ended. That record doesn't exactly sound amazing, but I think the Yankees got what they were looking for.

~~~

Just from searching around, I came across an article from 2 years ago, when CC was a free-agent. A writer at SI came up with these stats (keep in mind they're 2 years old, but I doubt they've gotten much better):

-Twenty-two free-agent starting pitchers have signed a long-term deal (four or more years) since 2000. Only half of them have had winning records so far.

-Of the 79 seasons by those pitchers in that time, in only 31 has the pitcher had an ERA+ of 100 -- that's considered average -- or better. That means that about 61 percent of the time those pitchers have been below-average.

At the time that article was written, the writer thought Johan Santana might be one of the exceptions (he'd just finished the first year of his 7-year deal with the Mets, posting a 16-7 record for the 2008 season). But in the meantime he was 13-9 in '09, and 11-9 in '10, so that deal isn't working out so well anymore either.

Sabathia is looking good so far, but he still has 5 years left to spoil the deal.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Hi-Def Steve

I should have qualified my question with pitchers that aren't currently in the beginning of their contracts. Rather those who have played all the years of their contract, or not because of injury or whatnot.

Well it's just common sense really, a really good pitcher only becomes available for one of 3 reasons unless their team is stupid -
$
Age
Decline in play
Could also be any combination of the above and this is why any huge contract with a lot of money and years behind it is always a gamble, no matter who you're signing.

[Hi-Def Steve]

Interesting info toef, thanks!

[Hi-Def Steve]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

this is why any huge contract with a lot of money and years behind it is always a gamble, no matter who you're signing.

Yes I know, thus why I was asking if any of those contracts throughout the years have worked out for the respective teams.

[Hi-Def Steve]

Don't like the 3rd guaranteed year, but it's a solid pickup. Looks like the RedSox were in on the bidding as well.

The Dodgers agreed to sign Matt Guerrier to a three-year deal, according to Newsday's Erik Boland. The deal would be for $12MM over three years, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports.

[Batman1980]

The New York Daily News' Bill Madden expects the Yankees to target Carlos Zambrano via trade.
It would be an interesting fit, putting Big Z and his fieriness under the spotlight in New York. He would be reunited with former Cubs pitching coach Larry Rothschild, who is now with the Yankees. Zambrano, who has a full no-trade clause, posted a 3.33 ERA but a 1.45 WHIP in 2010 and was banished from the club for a midseason blowup. He returned to pitch well down the stretch, though, not giving up more than two earned runs over his final 11 starts. Still, we can't help but think Big Z in New York is a disaster waiting to happen. Dec. 15 - 1:23 pm et

Source - http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...310455&id=3106

[fatediesel]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

Source - http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...310455&id=3106

As a Cubs fan I pray the Yankees wanting Zambrano is true. He's an overpaid headcase that doesn't work hard and can't handle the Chicago media, and I have little doubt he'd blow up on the New York media within days. The Cubs should offer to give Zambrano to the Yanks for nothing in return.

[supersix4]

Originally Posted by fatediesel

The Cubs should offer to give Zambrano to the Yanks for nothing in return.

Lmao honestly that would be a win for the cubs