2025 Major League Baseball Thread

[sycro]

Originally Posted by walruswarrior

99 and 2009 (when he should have won the MVP). Additionally, there are only 3 players in the history of the game that have more 200 hit seasons than Jeter.

Who said that Jeter was the best of his era? I certainly didn't.

lol again it seems like you're salty Jeter is given this status and the people you cheered for weren't. He won and he won a lot something your Braves did not. He wasn't a secondary piece like Bernie Williams. Bernie doesn't have the pedigree that Jeter has. For you to ask that question shows just how clueless you are in this regard.

Lastly payrolls are not the end all be all otherwise the Angels and Dodgers should be winning a lot more than they have....

Maddux certainly got the same adoration as Jeter. But it's fine if you think this has anything to do with jealousy or anything other than a discussion of Jeter.

But it's funny as a Yankees fan that you view Bernie Williams as a secondary piece. During those World Series years, he did more for the team on the field than Jeter. For all his hits, he only had over 80 RBIs... 3 times. Go look at the stats of Williams and Jeter when the Yankees were dominating.... If Jeter's legacy is set by those years, then Williams should be as well. But there's always been that hype around Jeter. Honestly compare their numbers, and then look at the MVP votes those years. Jeter is top 10 four times, and Williams is top 10 once.

[Wingman1977]

What a way to end the game with a game winning hit. You can't make this stuff up:



Enough said

[walruswarrior]

Originally Posted by sycro

Maddux certainly got the same adoration as Jeter. But it's fine if you think this has anything to do with jealousy or anything other than a discussion of Jeter.

But it's funny as a Yankees fan that you view Bernie Williams as a secondary piece. During those World Series years, he did more for the team on the field than Jeter. For all his hits, he only had over 80 RBIs... 3 times. Go look at the stats of Williams and Jeter when the Yankees were dominating.... If Jeter's legacy is set by those years, then Williams should be as well. But there's always been that hype around Jeter. Honestly compare their numbers, and then look at the MVP votes those years. Jeter is top 10 four times, and Williams is top 10 once.

He was the leadoff hitter. It's rare for a leadoff hitter to get 100 RBIs

You want to discredit Jeter's legacy. That's fine. 5 rings and the adoration of all his peers.

What is your motive for this discussion... C'mon..

[sycro]

Originally Posted by R3P0

If I recall he was also injured during some of those seasons sycro. I never claimed him to be a fantastic fielding SS, he is still arguably one of baseballs top 5 shortstops in history overall. If you also lok at my post I did say at least the last 5 years or so he should have moved to the hot corner. We know for a fact based on age anyone is going to decline. Visquel played 24-25 years which will be 4-5 years longer then Jeter, the top SS in % only played 9 years in MLB, Ripken arguably the greatest SS of all time was also a .97 and played 19-20 years I believe. So were talking the same amount of games roughly here overall.

As for your 2003 stat when his WAR was low yes he was injured in 03, his WAR was 4.8 indiciative of the fact he only played 119 games, the next year he rebounded to a 5.3 (2004) to a 6.5 (2005) then a 7.1 (2006). I agree his range was not fantastic and he stayed at the position to long, but you look at the stats of him in healthy years he is comparable to other great SS year for year.

Since I'm at a computer now and not on a train, I can give some more numbers. Granted, these are only for the last few years, so you may say they represent his falling off, but his defense has actually been pretty consistently bad since 2003 (as far back as Fangraphs goes for DRS)....

Inside Edge views every play and determines the chance of it being successfully fielded (so at least having a chance to throw the runner out, but doesn't measure the accuracy of the throw itself). They group things as Impossible (0%), Remote (1-10%), Unlikely (10-40%), Even (40-60%), Likely (60-90%) and Routine (90-100%). Here are Jeter's numbers and some random SS (outside of Simmons and Tulowitzki, the others were chosen based off being the top 10 offensive SS this year from Fangraphs, so I didn't go looking for good defensive guys to make a case, and as you can see, some of these guys are pretty damn bad too) for the last 3 years:

Derek Jeter: 0.0, 0.0, 2.7, 43.3, 70.5, 97.1
Andrelton Simmons: 0.0, 11.6, 51.6, 83.3, 80.3, 98.7
Troy Tulowitzki: 0.0, 10.6, 46.2, 66.7, 94.7, 97.9
JJ Hardy: 0.0, 3.6, 22.2, 47.5, 83.3, 98.2
Ian Desmond: 0.0, 4.9, 35.0, 54.2, 74.5, 97.4
Jimmy Rollins: 0.0, 3.0, 12.0, 44.4, 78.2, 98.5
Erick Aybar: 0.0, 1.4, 26.4, 33.3, 80.2, 96.9
Jhonny Peralta: 0.0, 0.0, 7.0, 35.3, 80.0, 98.4
Alexei Ramirez: 0.0, 2.7, 29.5, 62.9, 76.3, 97.8
Alcides Escobar: 0.0, 15.4, 45.0, 59.4, 80.2, 96.7
Hanley Ramirez: 0.0, 0.0, 10.3, 46.2, 73.2, 96.0
Jose Reyes: 0.0, 0.0, 23.8, 48.6, 72.9, 97.4
Starlin Castro: 0.0, 4.9, 17.9, 45.6, 76.3, 96.3

On that list, there are 8 guys (out of 12!) that get to more Remote balls than Jeter does to Unlikely Ones. And 4 get to more Unlikely than he does Even. I'll leave out Andrelton Simmons getting to more Even than Jeter does Likely because Simmons is special (and btw, Tulo getting to 94.7% of Likely ones is just sick).

[walruswarrior]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/le..._monitor.shtml

Jeter is #11 on the list of all-time...

[sycro]

Originally Posted by walruswarrior

He was the leadoff hitter. It's rare for a leadoff hitter to get 100 RBIs

You want to discredit Jeter's legacy. That's fine. 5 rings and the adoration of all his peers.

What is your motive for this discussion... C'mon..

I said that yesterday. I was at the game and every where I went people were calling him the greatest ever. I've never had that impression before, so I thought I'd ask since there were Yankee fans around here. He was certainly the face of the franchise in the 2000s, but I never viewed him as the star when they were the dynasty (O'Neill, Williams and Tino always seemed like bigger game changers).

[sycro]

Originally Posted by walruswarrior

http://www.baseball-reference.com/le..._monitor.shtml

Jeter is #11 on the list of all-time...

...

This is another Jamesian creation. It attempts to assess how likely (not how deserving) an active player is to make the Hall of Fame.

[walruswarrior]

We get it. You don't like Jeter and think he is overrated . You are a part of a very small minority. He's not overrated and is respected by all. He's been the face of the game for many years. He courts no controversy, bad mouths no one (unlike Chipper), and goes in and performs. Plain and simple.

His numbers and playoff pedigree speaks for itself. 5 rings. Can you remind me how many Maddux and Glavine won when they put up some of the "best" seasons ever?

[sycro]

This is why you can't have civilized conversations with Yankee fans. I've never once said I don't like Jeter (because I do like Jeter), and he's not overrated in the classical sense (that he's bad). He's a very good hitter and will be in the HoF in 5 years as he should be. You keep wanting to make this about the Braves and championships, which it never has been about. And if it is about championships, there are several players on those teams that need to get a call from Cooperstown (and not just for a concert that they cancelled).

[walruswarrior]

Originally Posted by sycro

This is why you can't have civilized conversations with Yankee fans. I've never once said I don't like Jeter (because I do like Jeter), and he's not overrated in the classical sense (that he's bad). He's a very good hitter and will be in the HoF in 5 years as he should be. You keep wanting to make this about the Braves and championships, which it never has been about. And if it is about championships, there are several players on those teams that need to get a call from Cooperstown (and not just for a concert that they cancelled).

You've spent a day explaining how you think Jeter is unworthy of the praise he is getting = saying he's overrated.

It does matter about championships. That is what every player plays for. It is a huge part of the discussion. He won more in his era as a significant part of his franchise than pretty much any player. His performance in the playoffs is impeccable just like Mo, which is coincidentally why he will always be the best closer in MLB history (something Kimbrel will never attain).

It's about playoff pedigree and regular season accomplishments, which sets him apart from those players....

[walruswarrior]

Captain Clutch does it one last time at Yankee Stadium

[Hatter]

Seems like Sycro is mad that a guy like Chipper (who was my favorite player) didn't get the same epic farewell tour despite being an alltime great 3b.

Even with Jeter's mediocre fielding, he still deserves all the praise he gets. This retrospective diminishing of a player of his caliber makes no sense. He's 40 coming off surgery. Of course he won't be at the same level he used to be at.

[Moviefan1203]

Originally Posted by walruswarrior

Captain Clutch does it one last time at Yankee Stadium

A great moment for sure. You have to have the sense that it had to end that way. It was meant to be.

[West E]

I usually hate baseball but I tuned in last night. That was magical.
I wish it was actually his final game.

[Navster]

Originally Posted by walruswarrior

Captain Clutch does it one last time at Yankee Stadium

You just can't make this stuff up, what an amazing final show for the home crowd

[MifuneFan]

The ending was honestly too good to be true. I mean for Robertson to blow a 3 run lead, and for Jeter to come up and get the game winning hit. I just can't wrap my mind around how perfect that was. I teared up watching it all.

Derek Jeter's Game Winning Hit in Last At-Bat at Yankee Stadium - YouTube

[Navster]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

The ending was honestly too good to be true. I mean for Robertson to blow a 3 run lead, and for Jeter to come up and get the game winning hit. I just can't wrap my mind around how perfect that was. I teared up watching it all.

Derek Jeter's Game Winning Hit in Last At-Bat at Yankee Stadium - YouTube

Wow thanks for sharing, goosebumps

[Wingman1977]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

The ending was honestly too good to be true. I mean for Robertson to blow a 3 run lead, and for Jeter to come up and get the game winning hit. I just can't wrap my mind around how perfect that was. I teared up watching it all.

Derek Jeter's Game Winning Hit in Last At-Bat at Yankee Stadium - YouTube

It's truly the end of a era of Yankee baseball.

[Moviefan1203]

Originally Posted by West E

I usually hate baseball but I tuned in last night. That was magical.
I wish it was actually his final game.

Magical is a great way to put it. I kept thinking about this today, and moments like last night are why I love sports so much. So much heart and emotion, so much more than a game. Typically, I don't think the good Lord takes sides in sports. But last night might have been an exception.

[sycro]

Originally Posted by Hatter

Seems like Sycro is mad that a guy like Chipper (who was my favorite player) didn't get the same epic farewell tour despite being an alltime great 3b.

Even with Jeter's mediocre fielding, he still deserves all the praise he gets. This retrospective diminishing of a player of his caliber makes no sense. He's 40 coming off surgery. Of course he won't be at the same level he used to be at.

Except he did get the big send offs in every stadium. This has nothing to do with anybody other than Jeter, and the other Yankees who won them championships who are now viewed as second fiddles.

But either way, I'm done arguing with people who don't understand the points I'm making and think this is somehow about jealousy or Yankees vs Braves.