2025 Major League Baseball Thread

[A Sith Lord?]

Originally Posted by walruswarrior

If you say so. That's a pretty flawed rationale because there are years where no players are inducted or there are less than expected. There were only three this year when most believed at least 4 would make it.

Biggio didn't make it because Jack Morris' last year + the 4% of people that voted for Palmeiro. Alan Trammell has lost a lot of steam as well, and like Morris looks to be a veterans committee guy.

There won't be any years where no players are going to be inducted for at least the next 7-8 years. We just finished the golden era of 90's to 2010's and all of those dominant players are up for election soon.

After Jeter and David Ortiz retire in a few years, there won't be any first ballot HOF guys for a while. CLiff Lee doesn't have enough numbers to be first ballot, Santana's hurt by injuries and shorter peak like Halladay means he's either borderline or definitely not first ballot. Joe Mauer moving to 1st base will diminish his offensive value as his offensive production is premium for C, not so much 1B.

Who else that will likely retire be a 1st Ballot guy? Konerko is not going to be first ballot. Ichiro will probably be 1st Ballot but he could end up playing another 3-4 years IMO. Torrii Hunter could end up being in the hall one day, but not first ballot. Pujols is still locked in for 8 years lol.

[walruswarrior]

Originally Posted by MasturB

Biggio didn't make it because Jack Morris' last year + the 4% of people that voted for Palmeiro. Alan Trammell has lost a lot of steam as well, and like Morris looks to be a veterans committee guy.

There won't be any years where no players are going to be inducted for at least the next 7-8 years. We just finished the golden era of 90's to 2010's and all of those dominant players are up for election soon.

After Jeter and David Ortiz retire in a few years, there won't be any first ballot HOF guys for a while. CLiff Lee doesn't have enough numbers to be first ballot, Santana's hurt by injuries and shorter peak like Halladay means he's either borderline or definitely not first ballot. Joe Mauer moving to 1st base will diminish his offensive value as his offensive production is premium for C, not so much 1B.

Who else that will likely retire be a 1st Ballot guy? Konerko is not going to be first ballot. Ichiro will probably be 1st Ballot but he could end up playing another 3-4 years IMO. Torrii Hunter could end up being in the hall one day, but not first ballot. Pujols is still locked in for 8 years lol.

Ortiz won't be a first ballot guy. Lee is still pitching so he can potentially further his candidacy. Depending on how the backend of his career goes, CC could potentially reach 300 wins and would be a lock for the HOF.

[A Sith Lord?]

Ortiz won't be first ballot?

Oh my goodness.

Postseason god, did you not watch this past postseason? He brought 3 World Series to Boston. 431 homeruns, about 350 after the age of 29. Never been linked to PED's. He and Frank Thomas are arguably the greatest DH's in history.

[walruswarrior]

Originally Posted by MasturB

Ortiz won't be first ballot?

Oh my goodness.

Postseason god, did you not watch this past postseason? He brought 3 World Series to Boston. 431 homeruns, about 350 after the age of 29. Never been linked to PED's. He and Frank Thomas are arguably the greatest DH's in history.

lol of course he's been linked to PED's smh... Where have you been? If Clemens and Bonds are under the cloud and are not being voted in, Ortiz will be waiting as well.

[A Sith Lord?]

Originally Posted by walruswarrior

lol of course he's been linked to PED's smh... Where have you been? If Clemens and Bonds are under the cloud and are not being voted in, Ortiz will be waiting as well.

The only thing I remember in recent memory is Colin Cowherd accusing him, and then him possibly failing a test 11 years ago.

He's been putting up major numbers since drug testing became serious in the big leagues, and he's been pretty consistent.

And I don't think it's the same thing, because Clemens actually has witnesses against him.

Bonds actually battled reportes for 6 years in the media when he was chasing Aaron and Ruth.

Nobody is asking for Ortiz's head to be put on a platter like Clemens and Bonds.

[Clark Kent]

I think you are overestimating Hoffman's candidacy. He might get into the Hall, but it will take many ballots before he does. He won't be elected within the first five years on the ballot.

Jim Edmonds probably deserves the HOF, but it's also going to take many years for him to get in.

[walruswarrior]

Originally Posted by MasturB

The only thing I remember in recent memory is Colin Cowherd accusing him, and then him possibly failing a test 11 years ago.

He's been putting up major numbers since drug testing became serious in the big leagues, and he's been pretty consistent.

And I don't think it's the same thing, because Clemens actually has witnesses against him.

Bonds actually battled reportes for 6 years in the media when he was chasing Aaron and Ruth.

Nobody is asking for Ortiz's head to be put on a platter like Clemens and Bonds.

That's true, but the same could be said for Piazza and Bagwell. He won't be a first ballot guy because he's been linked with PED's by way of failing a drug test. The guy juiced with Manny. Pretty plain and simple. Not saying he won't get in, but he's not going his first year.

[A Sith Lord?]

I'd say realistically Hoffman gets in no later than 3rd ballot.

601 saves is a lot. That's most by anybody not named Mariano and almost 120 more than Lee Smith. Hoffman is another clean guy who's value is boosted during the PED era against steroid guys.

Hoffman doesn't get as much love because he plays in San Diego which isn't exactly the best baseball market, but he did play 90% of his career wearing a Padre uniform, and that's something writer's love is a loyal guy. They love lifers even more which is why Chipper, Jeter, Helton, and Mariano will be the last of their breed most likely. Errr Verlander will probably retire and go into the Hall as a Tiger.

[A Sith Lord?]

Originally Posted by walruswarrior

That's true, but the same could be said for Piazza and Bagwell. He won't be a first ballot guy because he's been linked with PED's by way of failing a drug test. The guy juiced with Manny. Pretty plain and simple. Not saying he won't get in, but he's not going his first year.

Bagwell and Piazza have NEVER been associated with PED's.

They're basically being given the guilt by association treatment. Bagwell and Piazza's peaks were normal for their ages, neither peaked too early nor peaked late. They both aged pretty normally in terms of production.

I just don't see Ortiz and PED accusations holding up TBH. MLB got serious about drug testing in 2003, and made their policy even stricter a few years ago. Ortiz has consistently put up big numbers since drug testing began.

The big question mark is how he became such an elite hitter from Minnesota to Boston. PED's? Debatable. Jim Edmonds is another guy who had some of his greatest seasons after age 29 as well.

[walruswarrior]

Originally Posted by MasturB

Bagwell and Piazza have NEVER been associated with PED's.

They're basically being given the guilt by association treatment. Bagwell and Piazza's peaks were normal for their ages, neither peaked too early nor peaked late. They both aged pretty normally in terms of production.

I just don't see Ortiz and PED accusations holding up TBH. MLB got serious about drug testing in 2003, and made their policy even stricter a few years ago. Ortiz has consistently put up big numbers since drug testing began.

The big question mark is how he became such an elite hitter from Minnesota to Boston. PED's? Debatable. Jim Edmonds is another guy who had some of his greatest seasons after age 29 as well.

Actually there have been whispers of Piazza and PED's. How true they are is unclear. Ortiz won't be a first ballot guy. Put it down. Has A-ROD failed a test? This whole infallible process of drug testing you describe is quite comical. Not saying he's juicing right now, but you can't just say that he hasn't juiced since failing that first test. Once you are associated with PED's it's hard to get that taint off of you.

[A Sith Lord?]

Originally Posted by walruswarrior

Actually there have been whispers of Piazza and PED's. How true they are is unclear. Ortiz won't be a first ballot guy. Put it down. Has A-ROD failed a test? This whole infallible process of drug testing you describe is quite comical. Not saying he's juicing right now, but you can't just say that he hasn't juiced since failing that first test. Once you are associated with PED's it's hard to get that taint off of you.

There's always rumors about people. People are whispering Pujols taking roids too. The thing is, guys like Hank Aaron admit to using greenies (amphetamines) back in the day but nobody really looked at that as cheating either. Don Sutton spitballed. Piazza and Bagwell have never had any serious accusations against them, and when it comes to voting time no writers suggest it's because of a link, but rather guilt by assocation because of the era they played in.

IIRC A-Rod did fail a test, but that was pre-suspensions. I believe A-Rod failed a test the year he won MVP for Texas but there was some gray area about the suspension policy. I think 2005 was the first year they started the new drug testing policy.

I'm not saying the current drug testing is perfect because to my knowledge it still doesn't test for HGH, but if Manny can get caught twice, Ryan Braun caught but got out on a technicality, then got caught again with Cruz and others and got suspended.

Ortiz will be a 1st Ballot Guy specifically because he did bring 3 championships to Boston, is a postseason legend, and because the media loves him and he played for Boston.

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by MasturB

Biggio didn't make it because Jack Morris' last year + the 4% of people that voted for Palmeiro. Alan Trammell has lost a lot of steam as well, and like Morris looks to be a veterans committee guy.

There won't be any years where no players are going to be inducted for at least the next 7-8 years. We just finished the golden era of 90's to 2010's and all of those dominant players are up for election soon.

After Jeter and David Ortiz retire in a few years, there won't be any first ballot HOF guys for a while. CLiff Lee doesn't have enough numbers to be first ballot, Santana's hurt by injuries and shorter peak like Halladay means he's either borderline or definitely not first ballot. Joe Mauer moving to 1st base will diminish his offensive value as his offensive production is premium for C, not so much 1B.

Who else that will likely retire be a 1st Ballot guy? Konerko is not going to be first ballot. Ichiro will probably be 1st Ballot but he could end up playing another 3-4 years IMO. Torrii Hunter could end up being in the hall one day, but not first ballot. Pujols is still locked in for 8 years lol.

Edmonds, Konerko and Hunter as possibles? Are you kidding me? Given Larry Walker is struggling to get any real support, there is no way in hell those guys should receive any real substantial amount of votes.

[walruswarrior]

Originally Posted by MasturB

There's always rumors about people. People are whispering Pujols taking roids too. The thing is, guys like Hank Aaron admit to using greenies (amphetamines) back in the day but nobody really looked at that as cheating either. Don Sutton spitballed. Piazza and Bagwell have never had any serious accusations against them, and when it comes to voting time no writers suggest it's because of a link, but rather guilt by assocation because of the era they played in.

IIRC A-Rod did fail a test, but that was pre-suspensions. I believe A-Rod failed a test the year he won MVP for Texas but there was some gray area about the suspension policy. I think 2005 was the first year they started the new drug testing policy.

I'm not saying the current drug testing is perfect because to my knowledge it still doesn't test for HGH, but if Manny can get caught twice, Ryan Braun caught but got out on a technicality, then got caught again with Cruz and others and got suspended.

Ortiz will be a 1st Ballot Guy specifically because he did bring 3 championships to Boston, is a postseason legend, and because the media loves him and he played for Boston.

He's not going to be a first ballot guy. His failed drug test assures him of that. I'm sorry but there are voters who say if there are even whispers of PED talk they won't vote for that person.

[walruswarrior]

Originally Posted by Hatter

Edmonds, Konerko and Hunter as possibles? Are you kidding me? Given Larry Walker is struggling to get any real support, there is no way in hell those guys should receive any real substantial amount of votes.

Exactly. It's the HOF not the Hall of Very Good.

[A Sith Lord?]

Originally Posted by Hatter

Edmonds, Konerko and Hunter as possibles? Are you kidding me? Given Larry Walker is struggling to get any real support, there is no way in hell those guys should receive any real substantial amount of votes.

Edmonds is a Top 10 Centerfielder statistically.

He's actually been somewhat underappreciated because he played for Anaheim when they blew, and for St. Louis when Pujols and Rolen were taking the spotlight.

Konerko I say that because he's a team lifer. 434 homeruns (and counting) and one team for 17 years. A rarity.

I think you guys underestimate how much guys like Edmonds and Konerko are giong to get more love especially since guys who they played with that PED'd are likely not going to get voted in.

I'm going based off of trends in the hall. Adding guys like Jim Rice and Blyleven has diluted the Hall, as both guys are the epitome of good enough but not Hall worthy.

If you look at Edmond's statistics, he's pretty much up there with all-time centerfielders not named Mays, Dimaggio, Mantle or Cobb. Griffey is the only one to come close to them.

[sycro]

This is why I love(d) Maddux so much:

Eddie Perez caught 832 1/3 innings from Maddux, by far the most of any catcher, all with the Atlanta Braves. He caught Maddux's final Cy Young season, which capped a four-year era in which Maddux was 75-29 with a 1.98 ERA. His strikeout-to-walk ratio was 7. And early on, when Perez was learning the big-league game, Maddux called nearly every pitch from the mound.

"Now I can talk about it," Perez said Tuesday.

When Perez returned the ball to the mound, he said, Maddux would designate the next pitch by the way he caught the ball, or the way he held his right hand, or touched his cap. And Perez would follow along. It went on like that for months, until Perez decided he knew the opposing hitters – and Maddux – well enough to take over.

"I got it," he told Maddux one afternoon. "Let me call tonight's game."

Maddux nodded and went along with it, shaking off Perez only two or three times. They won the game. Perez was elated.

"How'd I do?" Perez asked proudly.

Maddux looked up at Perez and said, "Those two or three? That's too much."

[walruswarrior]

Originally Posted by MasturB

Edmonds is a Top 10 Centerfielder statistically.

He's actually been somewhat underappreciated because he played for Anaheim when they blew, and for St. Louis when Pujols and Rolen were taking the spotlight.

Konerko I say that because he's a team lifer. 434 homeruns (and counting) and one team for 17 years. A rarity.

I think you guys underestimate how much guys like Edmonds and Konerko are giong to get more love especially since guys who they played with that PED'd are likely not going to get voted in.

I'm going based off of trends in the hall. Adding guys like Jim Rice and Blyleven has diluted the Hall, as both guys are the epitome of good enough but not Hall worthy.

If you look at Edmond's statistics, he's pretty much up there with all-time centerfielders not named Mays, Dimaggio, Mantle or Cobb. Griffey is the only one to come close to them.

Mays, Speaker, Cobb, Mantle, DiMaggio, Snider, Griffey, Puckett, Dawson, and Beltran round out my top 10.

[walruswarrior]

Originally Posted by sycro

This is why I love(d) Maddux so much:

1-2 against us in the World Series including losing Game 6 of the 96 WS

[Navster]

Originally Posted by walruswarrior

1-2 against us in the World Series including losing Game 6 of the 96 WS

Lincecum has more WS trophies then Maddux

[walruswarrior]

Originally Posted by Navster

Lincecum has more WS trophies then Maddux

Pettitte has more than both put together