2025 Major League Baseball Thread

[sycro]

Wagner and Ripken are definitely ahead of Jeter. I'd put Ozzie there too. Though he didn't play his entire career at SS, his best years were, so I'd include Ernie Banks. I'd also include Robin Yount in the discussion.

[walruswarrior]

I only have Cal in front of Jeter and it's close. I laughed so hard at including A-Rod in this list.

[sycro]

Originally Posted by walruswarrior

I have a vacation set up in July. I'm finally going to go to the new Stadium. I'm currently eyeing that Thursday July 24th game against the Rangers, which is a 1 PM day game. If not that game, then the 26th against the Blue Jays. I want to go to a Tanaka game, so hopefully he starts one of those games.

I'll be headed up to the HoF that same time. If I hadn't had to reschedule a longer vacation, I actually might have been at one of those games

[Lacit170]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

At Shortstop I'd go with.

1. Honus Wagner
2. Cal Ripken Jr.
3. Ernie Banks (Isn't his fault he played on crap teams)
4. Alex Rodriguez (Yes, he's played more games at SS than 3B in his career, won seven Silver Sluggers at SS and had the best WAR in the AL four times at SS. Jeter only had the best WAR at his position one season in his career.)
5. Derek Jeter

you still place Arod though even after knowledge of the roids? i would agree if not for that.

[walruswarrior]

Banks only played 8 seasons as a SS, and played most of his career at 1B.

[sycro]

Originally Posted by walruswarrior

Banks only played 9 seasons as a SS, and played most of his career at 1B.

And he won 2 MVPs with 3 top 6 finishes during those years. His offensive production during those years was tremendous.

[walruswarrior]

Originally Posted by sycro

And he won 2 MVPs with 3 top 6 finishes during those years. His offensive production during those years was tremendous.

This is what Leo Durocher said of Ernie during his time with him:

From the time that Durocher arrived in Chicago, he was frustrated at his inability to trade or bench the aging Banks. In Durocher's autobiography, the manager recalled that "he was a great player in his time. Unfortunately, his time wasn't my time. Even more unfortunately, there was not a thing I could do about it. He couldn't run, he couldn't field; toward the end, he couldn't even hit. There are some players who instinctively do the right thing on the base paths. Ernie had an unfailing instinct for doing the wrong thing. But I had to play him. Had to play the man or there would have been a revolution in the street."

I don't think you could ever say this of Jeter.

[walruswarrior]

Originally Posted by sycro

And he won 2 MVPs with 3 top 6 finishes during those years. His offensive production during those years was tremendous.

Jeter had 4 top 6 finishes and was hosed in 2006. Jeter has 5 rings. Rings factor into the discussion. You can't just say well shucks he played on terrible teams, so you can't just ignore championships. He is Mr. November!

[sycro]

Originally Posted by walruswarrior

Jeter had 4 top 6 finishes and was hosed in 2006. Jeter has 5 rings. Rings factor into the discussion. You can't just say well shucks he played on terrible teams, so you can't just ignore championships. He is Mr. November!

Oh, in that case, Frankie Crosetti is better. He won 8 rings.

1 more top 6 finish in 10 more years at the position.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by Lacit170

you still place Arod though even after knowledge of the roids? i would agree if not for that.

Yes. Much like Barry Bonds, Rodriguez was a dominant player even before using. He could have stayed clean and still crushed well over 500 HR's. Rodriguez and Jeter's numbers aren't even comparable. Chop 15% or so off A-Rod's career offensive numbers and they're still better than Jeter's. And I say this as someone who detests A-Rod.

[walruswarrior]

Originally Posted by sycro

Oh, in that case, Frankie Crosetti is better. He won 8 rings.

lol. And it looks like you ended the discussion with nonsense. I didn't say rings were the only standard. I said they have to play a factor in the discussion. Not completely ignored like your statement implied.

[walruswarrior]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

Yes. Much like Barry Bonds, Rodriguez was a dominant player even before using. He could have stayed clean and still crushed well over 500 HR's. Rodriguez and Jeter's numbers aren't even comparable. Chop 15% or so off A-Rod's career offensive numbers and they're still better than Jeter's. And I say this as someone who detests A-Rod.

Who knows when he started using? He probably was juicing from Day 1.

[sycro]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

Yes. Much like Barry Bonds, Rodriguez was a dominant player even before using. He could have stayed clean and still crushed well over 500 HR's. Rodriguez and Jeter's numbers aren't even comparable. Chop 15% or so off A-Rod's career offensive numbers and they're still better than Jeter's. And I say this as someone who detests A-Rod.

Yup. I left him off because of the taint, but ARod was a complete baller, and by all accounts I've heard, he earned that $250 million Texas deal without using.

[sycro]

Originally Posted by walruswarrior

Who knows when he started using? He probably was juicing from Day 1.

But he was still so tiny back then. It wasn't until Texas that he started ballooning.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by walruswarrior

Jeter had 4 top 6 finishes and was hosed in 2006. Jeter has 5 rings. Rings factor into the discussion. You can't just say well shucks he played on terrible teams, so you can't just ignore championships. He is Mr. November!

Yes, in fact you can ignore them to some extent. How many rings for example do you think Jeter would have won if he played on those Seattle and Texas teams in place of A-Rod? Almost certainly zero. You can only become "Mr. November" if you play on outstanding teams. Guys like Ted Williams and Ernie Banks never really had a chance to win a ring. Winning rings is probably 5% skill and 95% luck. This isn't the NBA where 1 or 2 guys carry a team to a championship.

[sycro]

Originally Posted by walruswarrior

lol. And it looks like you ended the discussion with nonsense. I didn't say rings were the only standard. I said they have to play a factor in the discussion. Not completely ignored like your statement implied.

I know, but I hate the "ring" argument. Teams win championships in baseball, not single players. Derek Jeter wasn't an offensive powerhouse and he wasn't a defensive wizard (though he did have a knack for making some really good plays). He was a consistent ballplayer for a lot of years with limited injuries. The Yankees won championships because they had really good teams, not because Jeter was good.

Also, since it will come up, I do think that the Braves players should be devalued to an extent because they DID have really good teams who fairly consistently were the best team in the regular season and the 2nd-4th in the playoffs.

[walruswarrior]

Originally Posted by sycro

Oh, in that case, Frankie Crosetti is better. He won 8 rings.

1 more top 6 finish in 10 more years at the position.

MVP votes are not the be all end all either. Banks was a sub .280 hitter who was slow. Not even close to the 3000 hit club. In 16 postseasons Jeter has an above .300 BA and has a .321 BA in the World Series.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by sycro

I know, but I hate the "ring" argument. Teams win championships in baseball, not single players. Derek Jeter wasn't an offensive powerhouse and he wasn't a defensive wizard (though he did have a knack for making some really good plays). He was a consistent ballplayer for a lot of years with limited injuries. The Yankees won championships because they had really good teams, not because Jeter was good.

There's an understatement. It's a poorly kept secret that the guy won his Gold Gloves off his name rather than actual defensive ability.

[walruswarrior]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

There's an understatement. It's a poorly kept secret that the guy won his Gold Gloves off his name rather than actual defensive ability.

Derek Jeter's historical play at first base line - YouTube

[squatting hen]

Go Rangers!

I do hope Jeter has a great year since it will be his last.

I can’t stand the Yankees though….