2025 Major League Baseball Thread

[fatediesel]

I think Ruth had it easier because he only had to play white players. Some of the best pitchers of the era were in the Negro League, so Ruth didn't have to face pitchers like Satchel Paige. As Brettalica mentioned Ruth was facing fewer pitchers and batters get a huge advantage when they face a pitcher numerous times, especially back in the 20s when players couldn't study videos to try and figure out the best way to pitch to their opponents.

Regardless, until baseball puts an asterisk next to the records I consider Bonds the record holder, even though I think he's scum and will never make the Hall of Fame.

[brettallica]

Originally Posted by fatediesel

I think Ruth had it easier because he only had to play white players. Some of the best pitchers of the era were in the Negro League, so Ruth didn't have to face pitchers like Satchel Paige. As Brettalica mentioned Ruth was facing fewer pitchers and batters get a huge advantage when they face a pitcher numerous times, especially back in the 20s when players couldn't study videos to try and figure out the best way to pitch to their opponents.

Regardless, until baseball puts an asterisk next to the records I consider Bonds the record holder, even though I think he's scum and will never make the Hall of Fame.

I often use the argument of different races and ethnicities being brought into the Majors as a factor that led to the game's obvious advancement and clear-cut advantage over the game played in the first half of the 20th century. At the same time, though, I wouldn't necessarily go out and say unequivocally that some of the best pitchers of the era were from the Negro League, because that's the same argument as saying the best players were the white ones in the MLB at the time. I guess you did qualify it by saying "some of the best"...but I totally understand (and agree with) the underlying concept in that if everyone was playing together at that time, there would be a far different history of the game as far as who holds which records. Satchel Paige may or may not have turned out to be the superstar of lore, but the same can be said of Ruth and Ty Cobb et. al; they (most likely) wouldn't have been as successful either since the talent pool would have be far deeper.

[supersix4]

Originally Posted by brettallica

This topic is so deep. I'm just gonna cut it off here, because if I don't stop myself, I'll take up all the storage space on the site.

America's pastime, baby!

You could also have mentioned the foul out rule now alot of balls that are homers might have been foul back in the day.

Truth is we won’t ever know which was harder, back then or today. But I won't give bonds credit just because he was “already a hall of famer” b4 he decided to blow up like a balloon, Unless it was factually proven that almost all the pitchers were doing it (with overwhelming proof) then you'd say it was fair in a sense.

Originally Posted by brettallica

I often use the argument of different races and ethnicities being brought into the Majors as a factor that led to the game's obvious advancement and clear-cut advantage over the game played in the first half of the 20th century. At the same time, though, I wouldn't necessarily go out and say unequivocally that some of the best pitchers of the era were from the Negro League, because that's the same argument as saying the best players were the white ones in the MLB at the time. I guess you did qualify it by saying "some of the best"...but I totally understand (and agree with) the underlying concept in that if everyone was playing together at that time, there would be a far different history of the game as far as who holds which records. Satchel Paige may or may not have turned out to be the superstar of lore, but the same can be said of Ruth and Ty Cobb et. al; they (most likely) wouldn't have been as successful either since the talent pool would have be far deeper.

agreed +1

[toef]

It's tough to compare Ruth's era to today. Sure the talent might not have been as good, but the players also didn't have the same benefits. There were no fancy training facilities, or team doctors, or team planes, or whatever else.

What I do know is stadiums, or at least their field dimensions, in the '20s and '30s were quite a bit bigger than today.

Ruth hit most of his HR's between left-center and right-center, especially earlier in his career. In 1921 he hit 59 HRs, back when the Yankees were still playing in the Polo Grounds.

Left-center and right-center in the Polo Grounds were ~450', and center field was 483'.

I'm sure somewhere in that season, there were at least 3 times that Ruth hit balls into those deep alleys, and they either were caught for outs, or fell in for singles/doubles, when in today's stadiums they'd easily be home runs.

Had Ruth played in today's smaller stadiums, who knows how many HRs he'd have.

[brettallica]

Originally Posted by toefer

It's tough to compare Ruth's era to today. Sure the talent might not have been as good, but the players also didn't have the same benefits. There were no fancy training facilities, or team doctors, or team planes, or whatever else.

What I do know is stadiums, or at least their field dimensions, in the '20s and '30s were quite a bit bigger than today.

Ruth hit most of his HR's between left-center and right-center, especially earlier in his career. In 1921 he hit 59 HRs, back when the Yankees were still playing in the Polo Grounds.

Left-center and right-center in the Polo Grounds were ~450', and center field was 483'.

I'm sure somewhere in that season, there were at least 3 times that Ruth hit balls into those deep alleys, and they either were caught for outs, or fell in for singles/doubles, when in today's stadiums they'd easily be home runs.

Had Ruth played in today's smaller stadiums, who knows how many HRs he'd have.

Of course, all good points. I love baseball.

The equipment was far different as well. These guys would swing 40oz bats and hit balls that were surely made of mushy leather and internal components. Think about how many new balls get used in a game today. I have no stats to back this up, but I'm just going to say they use more, and probably a lot more.

Pitchers also didn't throw as hard on average, although I'm sure there were exceptions. That would make hitting a ball farther both harder and easier: harder in that the hitter needs to generate more energy, but easier in that it's easier to time; i.e. it'd be more like batting practice -- and if you've ever watched Major League BP, you've seen see some serious shots. That's all hitter there. Overall, it's easier to hit a ball farther more consistently when you have easier pitches to hit. Granted, if you timed a gametime fastball with a full-fledged swing à la Randy Johnson vs. Mark McGwire and that famous home run from the 1990s, the ball will go farther, but that is statistically less likely to occur.

[hc666]

Still pretty upset here, not a Dodgers fan at all but can you imagine...

...signing this guy to all that money, he waits til the last minute to sign with the club, attracts tons of fans, sells merchandise, helps the team win and then gone for 50 games because he did the ultimate selfish act in baseball.

I bet the Giants are happy he never went there now! If I was a Dodger's fan I woud be livid and never forgive this. Soooo low it's unreal.

I can't buy the doctor excuse, they would have to know if a drug was banned or not. It's not like the doc didn't know who Manny was... give me a break!

Anyway just ranting, as a passionate baseball fan I think this is disgusting!

[supersix4]

Originally Posted by hc666

Anyway just ranting, as a passionate baseball fan I think this is disgusting!

THE only way I could semi buy it is if he did an Arod like presser with all his dr's up there giving VALID evidence he needed this. In that event I'm sure MLB wouldn't suspend him... another sad day for baseball fans

[hc666]

Originally Posted by supersix4

THE only way I could semi buy it is if he did an Arod like presser with all his dr's up there giving VALID evidence he needed this. In that event I'm sure MLB wouldn't suspend him... another sad day for baseball fans

Totally! I have alot of friends who only watch hockey and this will only give them more fuel to the fire to crap on baseball. It sucks! Even if every other player is clean, these odd bad apples ruin the whole damn bunch!

Can't wait to hear some sports shows tonight... should be some good discussions.

A-Rod is probably loving this lol take some attention away!

[supersix4]

Originally Posted by hc666

Totally! I have alot of friends who only watch hockey and this will only give them more fuel to the fire to crap on baseball. It sucks! Even if every other player is clean, these odd bad apples ruin the whole damn bunch!

Can't wait to hear some sports shows tonight... should be some good discussions.

A-Rod is probably loving this lol take some attention away!

And selena roberts looking for some more book innuendo cash

[toef]

I have no sympathy for the Dodgers. Word gets around the league on who is using steroids and who isn't. I find it hard to believe the Dodgers had no clue, unless Manny just happened to start taking them a few weeks ago, which is even harder to believe.

One of what I'm sure are many examples is when the Red Sox went after Gagne. There are messages Theo Epstein sent out, implying he knew Gagne was using steroids, and guess what? The Red Sox went after him anyway.

[Grumpz]

Seems like the only time MLB is talked about, it's because of banned substances.

Really, the record book is a joke and the sport hasn't had credibility for some time now, and it's just getting worse.

MLB players cheat, NFL players run around with guns, and NBA players are sluts. I wonder what Hockey players are going to come up with!?

[hc666]

Originally Posted by Grumpz

Seems like the only time MLB is talked about, it's because of banned substances.

Really, the record book is a joke and the sport hasn't had credibility for some time now, and it's just getting worse.

MLB players cheat, NFL players run around with guns, and NBA players are sluts. I wonder what Hockey players are going to come up with!?

Oh NFL players cheat too... some think the NFL is by far the worst... baseball gets all the slack because it's a game of numbers... everyone likes the big HR numbers but no one pays attention to a tackle clobbering ppl!

Watched a show tonight, Prime Time sports, had some ESPN analyst on and few others guys... anyway they came to the conclusion that they wouldn't be surprised if 80% of NFL players are on 'something'.

Baseball:

Holy smokes, the bottom of the 6th in Boston... 12 runs, felt like it last an hour lol... poor Indians!!!

[toef]

Originally Posted by hc666

Holy smokes, the bottom of the 6th in Boston... 12 runs, felt like it last an hour lol... poor Indians!!!

Those Indians are deadly though, so Boston should be careful.... they're capable of driving in 14 runs in a single inning... or so I've seen.

Yanks are en route to their 5th straight loss... at home, no less. This would put their home record at 6-7, which is great.

It was a bit embarrassing to hear Boston players talk about how the new stadium isn't nearly as intimidating as the old one (not just because of the attendance, but because of the design of the upper-deck). I figure they were just joking around, as part of the Bos/NY rivalry smack-talking, but they backed it up with the sweep, so who knows.

[toef]

Well, I spoke too soon. Damon tied it up with a 2-out 2-run HR.

Sadly Damon, Posada and Cano seemed to be carrying the team for a while. Cano's hitting streak ended at 18 games on Saturday, and he's something like 0-for-17 since then. Posada is on the DL, so he's gone for a few weeks, and now all that's left is Damon.

Molina also left the game, and will have an MRI I guess sometime tonight. Not sure what's wrong with him, but a month into the season, the Yankees are using their 3rd 3B, and 3rd catcher. At least A-Rod comes back tomorrow.

[Grumpz]

Originally Posted by hc666

Oh NFL players cheat too... some think the NFL is by far the worst... baseball gets all the slack because it's a game of numbers... everyone likes the big HR numbers but no one pays attention to a tackle clobbering ppl!

Watched a show tonight, Prime Time sports, had some ESPN analyst on and few others guys... anyway they came to the conclusion that they wouldn't be surprised if 80% of NFL players are on 'something'.

Baseball:

Holy smokes, the bottom of the 6th in Boston... 12 runs, felt like it last an hour lol... poor Indians!!!

Sure they cheat, but the test don't show it very often. Maybe there better at it, either way, we hear about them shooting themselves in the leg more often the doin the juice...or whatever else may be banned.

[toef]

Spoke too soon again. Rivera gives up back-to-back HRs in the 9th, so it's 8-6, and not looking good.

Rough year for Rivera. He's already given up as many HRs this year as he gave up in all of last season.

[toef]

Originally Posted by Grumpz

Sure they cheat, but the test don't show it very often. Maybe there better at it, either way, we hear about them shooting themselves in the leg more often the doin the juice...or whatever else may be banned.

Well like hc666 was somewhat saying, the two sports are completely different.

A big part of baseball is its history, and the records. A lot of people know the top 3 home-run hitters of all time, and probably even have a pretty good guess at how many home-runs they hit.

How many people, without looking it up, can quickly say who has the most touchdowns in NFL history, and how many TDs did he have? How many less know the top 3?

They're both team games, but it's a lot easier to compare players on a person-by-person basis in baseball, and we do that with stats. Baseball's a team game, but ultimately everyone comes up to bat on their own. If their stats are tainted, it makes everyone mad, so MLB is doing their darndest to clean up PEDs from the game.

Nobody is paying attention to the stats in football, or comparing today's stats to stats from 30 years ago. And since football is more of a team game, there's no way of telling how much one player's steroid use really affects anything.

Also, I think it's easier to give football players a pass. Baseball seems like a fairly relaxing sport, and the players look a lot like us. They're just guys wearing uniforms, swinging a bat. We can do that. If a guy takes steroids and becomes freakishly muscular (like McGwire, who had 17" forearms), it seems unfair.

NFL players are oversized muscular monsters to begin with, and they're hidden under helmets and tons of padding, which make them look even bigger. They don't look like us. We want them to smash into each other, and slam guys into the ground. That obviously takes a huge toll on the body, and if they need a little boost to recover, I think we're more willing to let it slide... just as long as they make sure they're ready to slam guys into the ground again next week.

So until the fans pressure the NFL to clean up the game -- which I don't see happening -- I think they'll have a pretty relaxed drug policy, and we won't hear much about people getting suspended.

[supersix4]

Originally Posted by Grumpz

Seems like the only time MLB is talked about, it's because of banned substances.

Really, the record book is a joke and the sport hasn't had credibility for some time now, and it's just getting worse.

MLB players cheat, NFL players run around with guns, and NBA players are sluts. I wonder what Hockey players are going to come up with!?

they have sean avery lol

Originally Posted by hc666

Oh NFL players cheat too... some think the NFL is by far the worst... baseball gets all the slack because it's a game of numbers... everyone likes the big HR numbers but no one pays attention to a tackle clobbering ppl!

Watched a show tonight, Prime Time sports, had some ESPN analyst on and few others guys... anyway they came to the conclusion that they wouldn't be surprised if 80% of NFL players are on 'something'.

Baseball:

Holy smokes, the bottom of the 6th in Boston... 12 runs, felt like it last an hour lol... poor Indians!!!

As much as I love, LOVE football and I'll make no bones about that. Baseball is so different I mean if I found out Clinton Portis was on roid’s my thinking would be “then he better not get hurt like he always does”. But baseball the numbers are engraved with kids who follow it and those #’s really mean A LOT. I really off the top of my head couldn't tell you how many games Darrell green played for the skins but Cal Ripken 2131, 1695 ribs, and that’s one thing Football will never have. How important those numbers are, because each generation it gets passed down look at what Aaron did exc.. So to me while some might say its held in a different light then football or other sports its because the names and numbers mean SO MUCH and have meant that to so many people that’s why McGuire, Sosa (best summer of my sports life watching those two go at it only to be crushed in 04-05 with congress) Clemons, bonds, manny, arod, exc. they all slowly wreck the one thing that no sport can touch and that’s a sad day for anyone who loves baseball and grew up with someone saying that’s ruth, that’s ripken, that’s Dave Winfield exc.

Noone will remember in 10-30 years or care that shawne merriman did roids but what will be their is dad why isn't Hank Aaron HR king.

Just my take

Originally Posted by toefer

It was a bit embarrassing to hear Boston players talk about how the new stadium isn't nearly as intimidating as the old one (not just because of the attendance, but because of the design of the upper-deck). I figure they were just joking around, as part of the Bos/NY rivalry smack-talking, but they backed it up with the sweep, so who knows.

I dunno I've watched about 5 of their games and it just doesn't feel the same when they are at the new one even on tv.

[toef]

Originally Posted by supersix4

I dunno I've watched about 5 of their games and it just doesn't feel the same when they are at the new one even on tv.

Yeah, I've watched at least some of every game, mostly on TV (though went to 1 game in-person last week). It definitely feels different, and in general the stadium doesn't feel like Yankee Stadium. Sure, there's tons of Yankee logos and pictures everywhere, so you know it belongs to the Yanks, but if you take those away, it looks like the stadium could belong to any team.

For whatever reason, I was under the impression that they were building an up-to-date version of Yankee Stadium, but aside from the limestone, frieze, Monument Park and the field dimensions (which aren't even completely identical), there's nothing Yankee Stadium about the new place.

I hate that the upper-deck is split in half, and is further away. In the old place, ~60% of the fans were packed into that upper deck, and it was huge, loud, and right on top of the players.

Everything in the new place seems so spaced out, and quiet.

I also don't really like the open concourses. Sure, its great to be waiting in line for a hamburger, and be able to turn around and keep an eye on the game. But who in their right mind would sit in their upper-deck seat if they can just walk down to the field-level concourse, and watch the game from down there? So even when the Yankees sell out the place (which they've yet to do), it will still look somewhat empty, because many people will leave their seats and watch the game from the concourses.

I want the old stadium back.

[hc666]

Originally Posted by toefer

Spoke too soon again. Rivera gives up back-to-back HRs in the 9th, so it's 8-6, and not looking good.

Rough year for Rivera. He's already given up as many HRs this year as he gave up in all of last season.

Has shoulder surgery changed him? When I heard he was having the surgery last year, I wondered if he would be the same when he got back.