2025 Major League Baseball Thread

[cajmoyper]

Also, just for those wondering, there is some obnoxious fan yelling out, "Oh sh!t!" everytime someone on our team gets a hit or HR, another by Napoli in the 5th fyi. And they're playing in LA so I thought it was just some Rangers "fan" baiting the LA-faithful. Turns out it Adrian Beltre in the dugout.

[Batman1980]

Delmon Young was one of our best players, wish they had gotten more for him than some scrub and some unnamed player. I'd be happier for Thome if it had happened during a much better season for the Twins.

[Wingman1977]

Thome's a sure lock HOF. The question is will he go in 1st ballot.

[wilky61]

Originally Posted by Wingman1977

Thome's a sure lock HOF. The question is will he go in 1st ballot.

No, it is not a question. Thome is not like McGuire or Bonds or Sosa or ARod or any of the other jackasses in the 600-club.

[TylerDurden]

Originally Posted by NavsterKing

Ouch that one hurt ... nice comeback by the Braves...

Wilson has a great record but really he was due to blow a save. No better chance to do that then with the bases loaded in the 9th.

[kpkelley]

Originally Posted by Wingman1977

Thome's a sure lock HOF. The question is will he go in 1st ballot.

I doubt it. The BWA are ridiculous when it comes to "first-ballot" HOFers. If you think the guy should be in the hall you should vote for him whenever he's available, this "he's not a first ballot HOFer" stuff is just crap.

For instance, it took Jim Rice 15 years to get in, but imo he should have been a clear HOFer. His 3 year stretch from 1977-1979 is one of the best in MLB history, leading the AL in a number of offensive categories(I believe most except for BA and OBP). Those three years he had more total bases than any single season from Ted Williams.

1977-1979 .320BA, .380OBP, .596SLG, .972OPS, 40+HR/PER, 125RBI/PER

In 16 seasons rice had 200 more hits than Thome has had in his 21 seasons.

The biggest issue with Thome is that he has never been an MVP. His highest finish is 4th place in 2003 with the Phillies. He probably should have won in 2002 or been second to A-Rods 57 home runs, instead he was seventh to Miguel Tejada. He never lead the league in RBIs, and just once in HRs(2003), but three times in strikeouts.

His most similar HOFer is Harmon Killebrew(baseball reference has Schmidt ahead of Killebrew, but Schmidt had 10 Gold Gloves, while Thome had none), who had his 573 HR outside the "steroid" era when HRs became much more common.

Thome is in, IMO, but he's a guy who probably didn't get the recognition during his career that he should have and that may affect his chances.

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by kpkelley

I doubt it. The BWA are ridiculous when it comes to "first-ballot" HOFers. If you think the guy should be in the hall you should vote for him whenever he's available, this "he's not a first ballot HOFer" stuff is just crap.

For instance, it took Jim Rice 15 years to get in, but imo he should have been a clear HOFer. His 3 year stretch from 1977-1979 is one of the best in MLB history, leading the AL in a number of offensive categories(I believe most except for BA and OBP). Those three years he had more total bases than any single season from Ted Williams.

1977-1979 .320BA, .380OBP, .596SLG, .972OPS, 40+HR/PER, 125RBI/PER

In 16 seasons rice had 200 more hits than Thome has had in his 21 seasons.

The biggest issue with Thome is that he has never been an MVP. His highest finish is 4th place in 2003 with the Phillies. He probably should have won in 2002 or been second to A-Rods 57 home runs, instead he was seventh to Miguel Tejada. He never lead the league in RBIs, and just once in HRs(2003), but three times in strikeouts.

His most similar HOFer is Harmon Killebrew(baseball reference has Schmidt ahead of Killebrew, but Schmidt had 10 Gold Gloves, while Thome had none), who had his 573 HR outside the "steroid" era when HRs became much more common.

Thome is in, IMO, but he's a guy who probably didn't get the recognition during his career that he should have and that may affect his chances.

Well I'm glad you brought up Rice. A superior player named Larry Walker better be in the hall of fame soon now that Rice is in.

Walker 1997-2002

.353AVG, .441OBP, .648slg, 156ops+

1997 mvp was one of the greatest non-steroid aided seasons of alltime and before you cite Coors know this: He hit 29 of 49 homeruns and slugged .733 on the road in 1997.

7 gold gloves, 3 time batting champ, mvp, career .313avg, .400obp, .565slg, 140ops+. He may not have any magic numbers, but he was a premier five tool player. Hall of fame Standard monitor says 58 (avg hof: 50).

[kpkelley]

Originally Posted by Hatter

Well I'm glad you brought up Rice. A superior player named Larry Walker better be in the hall of fame soon now that Rice is in.

Walker 1997-2002

.353AVG, .441OBP, .648slg, 156ops+

1997 mvp was one of the greatest non-steroid aided seasons of alltime and before you cite Coors know this: He hit 29 of 49 homeruns and slugged .733 on the road in 1997.

A much more offensive time than when Rice played(more than .5R/game more per team)[nl during that stretch was allowing more than 1HR per game, while the AL during Rice's time was closer to .85/game equally 33 more home runs per team over the course of a season]. I wonder how the Colorado issue will affect his voting. I was surprised to see that he had seven gold glove awards.

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by kpkelley

A much more offensive time than when Rice played(more than .5R/game more per team)[nl during that stretch was allowing more than 1HR per game, while the AL during Rice's time was closer to .85/game equally 33 more home runs per team over the course of a season]. I wonder how the Colorado issue will affect his voting. I was surprised to see that he had seven gold glove awards.

OPS+ is era and park neutral and a career 140ops+ taking into account the steroid era and playing half his games at Coors is very impressive. Rice ops+ is 128. Rice did play in hitter's park himself. Before Coors, Fenway was probably the most hitter friendly park of Rice's time (either way it always has been a top hitter's park).

[Waboman]

Originally Posted by Wingman1977

Thome's a sure lock HOF. The question is will he go in 1st ballot.

I think he is a 1st balloter. He did everything in his career the right way.

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by Waboman

I think he is a 1st balloter. He did everything in his career the right way.

That maybe so but there's zero chance he's first ballot. Should he go on the first ballot? Of course. However, despite there being no actual hall level tiers, voters treat it as such. He's not first ballot to the voters. I understand if the ballot is loaded with better guys and there's not enough eligible spots that year but when Larkin, Alomar and Blyleven get passed over when there was room (and inexplicably just inducting Dawson who was the weakest of the four mentioned in 2010), that's just stupid. I don't see that way of thinking changing so first ballot is out of the question.

[wilky61]

Originally Posted by Hatter

That maybe so but there's zero chance he's first ballot. Should he go on the first ballot? Of course. However, despite there being no actual hall level tiers, voters treat it as such. He's not first ballot to the voters. I understand if the ballot is loaded with better guys and there's not enough eligible spots that year but when Larkin, Alomar and Blyleven get passed over when there was room (and inexplicably just inducting Dawson who was the weakest of the four mentioned in 2010), that's just stupid. I don't see that way of thinking changing so first ballot is out of the question.

How many men have made it to 600 HRs without a steroids link? Thome is like the third? I can't speak for the Baseball Writers of America, but he'd be on my first ballot.

Comparing Thome's career HR numbers to ARod's are interesting, though. We know that ARod's spike in HRs between 2001-2003 was due to steroids. Thome spiked very similarly during the same three-year stretch.

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by wilky61

How many men have made it to 600 HRs without a steroids link? Thome is like the third? I can't speak for the Baseball Writers of America, but he'd be on my first ballot.

Comparing Thome's career HR numbers to ARod's are interesting, though. We know that ARod's spike in HRs between 2001-2003 was due to steroids. Thome spiked very similarly during the same three-year stretch.

The fifth actually (Mays, Ruth, Aaron and Griffey).

I'd like to point out that everybody's numbers spiked in 2001. Thome, Alomar, Boone, Sosa, Bonds, Gonzalez, Green, Helton etc. Giambi and Delgado the year before. Did they all decide to start sharing the needle that year? Then on the pitching side you have Schilling and Johnson who were lights out in hitter friendly Chase Field in 2001.

[wilky61]

Originally Posted by Hatter

The fifth actually (Mays, Ruth, Aaron and Griffey).

I'd like to point out that everybody's numbers spiked in 2001. Thome, Alomar, Boone, Sosa, Bonds, Gonzalez, Green, Helton etc. Giambi and Delgado the year before. Did they all decide to start sharing the needle that year? Then on the pitching side you have Schilling and Johnson who were lights out in hitter friendly Chase Field in 2001.

Yeah I thought of Griffey right after I posted that, but I forgot about Mays.

Did they all decide to start sharing the needle that year? IMO, probably. It was just how the game was played in that era. It's just too uncanny how everybody's HR totals spiked circa 1998-2003 and then returned to normal afterward. Case in point, Todd Helton spikes to 42 HRs in 2000 and 49 HRs in 2001 and then never comes within two-thirds of that total again despite still being quite young.

But there's very little proof of anything, of course.

[Navster]

Honestly i can care less about the players who juiced in the steriod era, and we know there was alot of them that did it, hitters and pitchers both... Bottom line, It was some of the most exciting baseball alot of us have ever seen, who doesnt love the long ball? ... Not saying anything is wrong with baseball the way it is right now... But the HR chases of Big Mac & Sosa in 98, Bonds 73 HR in 2001.... That was exciting!!!

You can can call me biased as the biggest roid users happens to be my favorite players (Bonds & Arod) but shit, if i can take something that will help me get better at my job, and make a ton more money while i do so, i would do it in a heartbeat....

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by NavsterKing

Honestly i can care less about the players who juiced in the steriod era, and we know there was alot of them that did it, hitters and pitchers both... Bottom line, It was some of the most exciting baseball alot of us have ever seen, who doesnt love the long ball? ... Not saying anything is wrong with baseball the way it is right now... But the HR chases of Big Mac & Sosa in 98, Bonds 73 HR in 2001.... That was exciting!!!

You can can call me biased as the biggest roid users happens to be my favorite players (Bonds & Arod) but shit, if i can take something that will help me get better at my job, and make a ton more money while i do so, i would do it in a heartbeat....

Would you vote for them all too though? To clarify my position, I sure would. Crappy players don't become great. Great players just become that much better.

[Navster]

Originally Posted by Hatter

Would you vote for them all too though? To clarify my position, I sure would. Crappy players don't become great. Great players just become that much better.

Wow I couldnt have said it better.... Some of these players were HOF locks before the allegations started anyways (Bonds) (BigMac) (Clemens), so hell yes i would vote for them!

[wilky61]

Originally Posted by NavsterKing

Honestly i can care less about the players who juiced in the steriod era, and we know there was alot of them that did it, hitters and pitchers both... Bottom line, It was some of the most exciting baseball alot of us have ever seen, who doesnt love the long ball? ... Not saying anything is wrong with baseball the way it is right now... But the HR chases of Big Mac & Sosa in 98, Bonds 73 HR in 2001.... That was exciting!!!

You can can call me biased as the biggest roid users happens to be my favorite players (Bonds & Arod) but shit, if i can take something that will help me get better at my job, and make a ton more money while i do so, i would do it in a heartbeat....

IMO, those years were the best not because of HRs but because of the DBacks/Yankees WS in 2001, the DBacks/Giants WS in 2002, the Steve Bartman incident in the 2003 NLCS, and the Red Sox/Yankees ALCS in 2004.

Of course, the 1998 steroid arms race stands apart though. After Roger Maris' 40-year-old record was broken and steroids became household vernacular, nobody cared any longer about HRs (e.g., nobody cared when Bonds passed Aaron and most fans probably can't even tell you Bonds' final career HR tally).

[Navster]

Originally Posted by wilky61

IMO, those years were the best not because of HRs but because of the DBacks/Yankees WS in 2001, the DBacks/Giants WS in 2002, and the Red Sox/Yankees ALCS in 2004.

Of course, the 1998 steroid arms race stands apart though. After Roger Maris' 40-year-old record was broken and steroids became household vernacular, nobody cared any longer about HRs (e.g., nobody cared when Bonds passed Aaron and most fans probably can't even tell you Bonds' final career HR tally).

762

[wilky61]

Originally Posted by NavsterKing

762

Do you have a Brian Wilson beard, too, Navster?

An interesting bit of trivia is that the single-season HR record in the American League still stands at 61. Griffey, Sosa, McGuire, Bonds, etc. all played in the NL.