2025 Major League Baseball Thread

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by dag

I was just about to post that! I'm liking the retro logo - really returns the club to its founding and those halcyon years when the Dome was sold out with 50,000 fans watching back-to-back World Series championships. Can't wait for the home opener against Boston. I think I'll buy myself a cap. Pity Toronto FC has been leaving me more and more disillusioned.

Does that also include a 200 million salary cap? If they want to go full retro, they have to become the highest spending team again like they were in 92 and 93.

[terp_fan99]

Originally Posted by Hatter

Does that also include a 200 million salary cap? If they want to go full retro, they have to become the highest spending team again like they were in 92 and 93.

Their payroll was a whopping $52m in 1993 while the Yankees were at $46m. 18 years later, the Jays payroll has only jumped to $62m while the Yankees are at $201m. I'm pretty sure the Yankees are to blame for the ridiculous contracts we see today and the difference in team salaries is much different now than it was back then.

Rogers said they would start raising the payroll when the time is right, whatever that means. It looks to me like the Jays are going to do nothing this off-season in the free agent market...I was really hoping for Prince Fielder! Maybe Votto next year if Lind still stinks?

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by terp_fan99

Their payroll was a whopping $52m in 1993 while the Yankees were at $46m. 18 years later, the Jays payroll has only jumped to $62m while the Yankees are at $201m. I'm pretty sure the Yankees are to blame for the ridiculous contracts we see today and the difference in team salaries is much different now than it was back then.

Rogers said they would start raising the payroll when the time is right, whatever that means. It looks to me like the Jays are going to do nothing this off-season in the free agent market...I was really hoping for Prince Fielder! Maybe Votto next year if Lind still stinks?

There was a time in the 1980's when the Kansas City Royals had the highest payroll in MLB. No, I'm not kidding. The financial structure of MLB was very different back then. Hate to say it but franchises like KC, Tampa, Pittsburgh, Toronto, etc. will never again be able to compete financially. When team payrolls were $20-50 mill they could, but not in an era where payrolls often exceed $100 mill and even 150-200 mill-plus. The only chance teams like Toronto have anymore is to try and replicate teams like Tampa or Florida and win big through young homegrown talent before unloading them once their price skyrockets.

I really don;t think you can pin the ridiculous payrolls solely on the Yankees though. Every major American sport - NHL, NBA and NFL too have seen MASSIVE % increases in payrolls since the 80's. It's not just MLB. The NBA players are finally realizing their own skyrocketing salaries can't continue forever given the ugly lockout and imminent big dip in revenue for players.

[Moviefan1203]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

I really don;t think you can pin the ridiculous payrolls solely on the Yankees though. Every major American sport - NHL, NBA and NFL too have seen MASSIVE % increases in payrolls since the 80's. It's not just MLB. The NBA players are finally realizing their own skyrocketing salaries can't continue forever given the ugly lockout and imminent big dip in revenue for players.

All of what you said is very true, but baseball unlike other sports has stupidly refused to go to a salary cap. If they don't go to one soon, they are going to lose some of their small market teams. As sad as it is to see, the sport is only hurting itself.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by Moviefan1203

All of what you said is very true, but baseball unlike other sports has stupidly refused to go to a salary cap. If they don't go to one soon, they are going to lose some of their small market teams. As sad as it is to see, the sport is only hurting itself.

They need a minimum team salary as much as they need a salary cap. There are many deadbeat teams that have owners raking in big profits while not spending any money on improving the team. Cough... Pittsburgh... cough...

[Moviefan1203]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

They need a minimum team salary as much as they need a salary cap. There are many deadbeat teams that have owners raking in big profits while not spending any money on improving the team. Cough... Pittsburgh... cough...

Oh you're totally right, they need to do what the NFL now does and have both a ceiling and a floor.

[filmnut5]

Originally Posted by terp_fan99

Completely in love with the Jays new blue jersey. Going to have to get one of those for sure. Now which player should I get? Bautista or Romero?

How about a Lawrie jersey...he's Canadian and hopefully a #3 or #5 hitter in this lineup for a long time.

[terp_fan99]

Originally Posted by filmnut5

How about Lawrie jersey...he's Canadian and hopefully a #3 or #5 hitter in this lineup for a long time.

I'm actually a big Lawrie fan already, but I'd like to see him play a full season before I drop $100 on a jersey!

[filmnut5]

Originally Posted by terp_fan99

I'm actually a big Lawrie fan already, but I'd like to see him play a full season before I drop $100 on a jersey!

[kpkelley]

Detroit's Justin Verlander has become the first starting pitcher in a quarter-century to win a Most Valuable Player award, adding it to his Cy Young Award last week.

Verlander earned the American League MVP honor Monday, receiving 13 of 28 first-place votes and 280 points in voting announced by the Baseball Writers' Association of America.

Boston center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury was second with 242 points, followed by Toronto right fielder Jose Bautista with 231 points.

Link

I'd discounted his likeliness to win the award because of the way pitchers were handled in the past. It looks like we will have to start including pitchers in our MVP considerations again.

[ChadFL]

As ridiculous as it is having a pitcher win the AL MVP it would have been almost as bad if Ellsbury won it. Pitchers have an award - it's called the Cy Young. If I had a vote I'd leave pitchers off my MVP ballot. It's not like Verlander had some historical year either. His ERA was like 2.45. That's good but nothing special. Guys like Maddux and Pedro used to have sveral seasons with an ERA <2.00 during the juiced-ball era. The voters just let the win total go to their heads.

I'm sorry but there's no excuse for Ellsbury finishing ahead of Bautista in the vote. American media bias strikes again.

[kpkelley]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

I'm sorry but there's no excuse for Ellsbury finishing ahead of Bautista in the vote. American media bias strikes again.

13 points is nothing, they essentially tied. From what I understand Bautista had more first place votes than Ellsbury did(5 to 4).

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

As ridiculous as it is having a pitcher win the AL MVP it would have been almost as bad if Ellsbury won it. Pitchers have an award - it's called the Cy Young. If I had a vote I'd leave pitchers off my MVP ballot. It's not like Verlander had some historical year either. His ERA was like 2.45. That's good but nothing special. Guys like Maddux and Pedro used to have sveral seasons with an ERA <2.00 during the juiced-ball era. The voters just let the win total go to their heads.

I'm sorry but there's no excuse for Ellsbury finishing ahead of Bautista in the vote. American media bias strikes again.

I know I talked a lot about Verlander winning the MVP but now that he has, I don't like it.

Pedro Martinez:

1999:

23-4 2.07 ERA 313K 0.923 WHIP 243 ERA+

2000:

18-6 1.74 ERA 284K 0.737 WHIP 291 ERA+ (best ever for a fulltime starting pitcher)

ZERO First place votes in 2000

Maddux 1994-1995 combined

1.60 ERA 0.853 WHIP 266 ERA+ 7 first place votes total (all in 1995)

Ellsbury had no business finishing ahead of Bautista either.

Originally Posted by kpkelley

13 points is nothing, they essentially tied. From what I understand Bautista had more first place votes than Ellsbury did(5 to 4).

But Ellsbury got 13 second place votes to Bautista's 7 so the bias is clearly there.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by kpkelley

13 points is nothing, they essentially tied. From what I understand Bautista had more first place votes than Ellsbury did(5 to 4).

I still think Bautista is being penalized by voters because many think he juices. I mean the guy was a mediocre power-hitter for the first six years of his career (never breaking 15 HR's) before magically hitting an average of 48.5 in 2010 and 2011. Either way without proof of cheating he should have won MVP by a good margin this season.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by Hatter

I know I talked a lot about Verlander winning the MVP but now that he has, I don't like it.

Pedro Martinez:

1999:

23-4 2.07 ERA 313K 0.923 WHIP 243 ERA+

2000:

18-6 1.74 ERA 284K 0.737 WHIP 291 ERA+ (best ever for a fulltime starting pitcher)

ZERO First place votes in 2000

Maddux 1994-1995 combined

1.60 ERA 0.853 WHIP 266 ERA+ 7 first place votes total (all in 1995)

Ellsbury had no business finishing ahead of Bautista either.

But Ellsbury got 13 second place votes to Bautista's 7 so the bias is clearly there.

In 1995 Maddux went 19-2, ERA 1.63, 10 CG, 3 shutouts. Barry Larkin won MVP that year with a .319 Avg, 15 HR, 66 RBI, 51 SB. Maddux did win the Cy Young in a landslide but finished 3rd in the MVP vote. Even Dante Bichette came in ahead of Maddux in the MVP vote with his badly inflated Coors Park numbers. If any pitcher ever deserved MVP it was Maddux in 1995.

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

I still think Bautista is being penalized by voters because many think he juices. I mean the guy was a mediocre power-hitter for the first six years of his career (never breaking 15 HR's) before magically hitting an average of 48.5 in 2010 and 2011. Either way without proof of cheating he should have won MVP by a good margin this season.

Wouldn't be surprised.

When he was drafted they did give him a very high power rating assessment. His swing was just terrible.

Originally Posted by ChadFL

In 1995 Maddux went 19-2, ERA 1.63, 10 CG, 3 shutouts. Barry Larkin won MVP that year with a .319 Avg, 15 HR, 66 RBI, 51 SB. Maddux did win the Cy Young in a landslide but finished 3rd in the MVP vote. Even Dante Bichette came in ahead of Maddux in the MVP vote with his badly inflated Coors Park numbers. If any pitcher ever deserved MVP it was Maddux in 1995.

That's got to be a record for highest MVP finish with crap WAR. His Baseball Ref WAR for 1995 was 0.3 (2.2 oWAR which is terrible for a MVP candidate anyway and a pathetic -1.9 dWAR). 1.8 fangraphs WAR with a -18.0 fielding rating.

Maddux had a gold glove to boot. Not a joke gold glove either. He was a fantastic fielder. What more did he need to do.

[R3P0]

Give it a rest guys its called the Most Valuable Player award meaning the guy who contributes most to his team. All those players you mention take them off there teams and they still make the playoffs.

What happens to the Tigers if you take out Verlander. I bet you they don't finish first in the AL Central. Verlander truly was the MVP of the league this year, he single handed won them the division, Single handed stopped 12 losing streaks, He single handed them 20+ wins, I wont say 24 full ones because there was about 4 games where he was behind by 5-6 runs and the Tigers bossed up and won it for him.

The guy was stellar, The only other guy I would consider for this award would be Nelson Cruz from the Rangers that guy was a beast in the postseason, as well as the month of Sept. and had it not been for Cruz the Rangers never would have made it to the World Series.

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by R3P0

Give it a rest guys its called the Most Valuable Player award meaning the guy who contributes most to his team. All those players you mention take them off there teams and they still make the playoffs.

What happens to the Tigers if you take out Verlander. I bet you they don't finish first in the AL Central. Verlander truly was the MVP of the league this year, he single handed won them the division, Single handed stopped 12 losing streaks, He single handed them 20+ wins, I wont say 24 full ones because there was about 4 games where he was behind by 5-6 runs and the Tigers bossed up and won it for him.

The guy was stellar, The only other guy I would consider for this award would be Nelson Cruz from the Rangers that guy was a beast in the postseason, as well as the month of Sept. and had it not been for Cruz the Rangers never would have made it to the World Series.

Most valuable is a joke because it's not fair when your team sucks. Stats should be compared straight up end of story.

[Navster]

CY Young is for Pitchers....

The MVP is not... Bottom line...

[R3P0]

Originally Posted by Hatter

Most valuable is a joke because it's not fair when your team sucks. Stats should be compared straight up end of story.

Fine lets look at stats you name 1 person in those situations aside from Cruz that was more dominant then Verlander was. Show me the stats to prove anyone else did more for there team then Verlander did. Lets take away 10 of those wins cause another starting pitcher would not have gotten what he did and look at that Tigers don't make the postseason and sure as hell don't win AL Central.