2025 Major League Baseball Thread

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

Bautista does not really pass the smell test to me. Most guys who become the best hitter in the game rarely have taken the huge leap in skill level he did at that late of an age. You can believe there are top players right now in MLB using steroids. It's definitely not as bad as it was 10 years ago, but there are still users out there evading the tests.

He was 29 and 30 for the past two seasons. Not exactly old. I'm sure you heard of a guy called Nelson Cruz. Didn't play 100 games until he was 28. Joe Nathan only started finding success at 29. Cliff Lee started dominating five months before his 29th birthday. Jayson Werth was 28 when he had his breakout season. Any questions?

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

Bautista does not really pass the smell test to me. Most guys who become the best hitter in the game rarely have taken the huge leap in skill level he did at that late of an age. You can believe there are top players right now in MLB using steroids. It's definitely not as bad as it was 10 years ago, but there are still users out there evading the tests.

Same here. I'm all for innocent until proven guilty. But at the same time this does seem odd.

Pre-2010: 14.8 HR per season
2010-2011: 54 and 43 HR

He was also a <.250 hitter until 2010. Since then he's around .280 We're talking massive shifts. Only other guy I can think of who did that was Brady Anderson who went from being a 10-15 HR guy to hitting 50 HR in 1996 before fading back into obscurity. And if I'm not mistaken I think Anderson juiced.

[Josh5890]

I hope for the sake of baseball that this is overturned. I think MLB is headed in the right direction with their image and steroids but this really hurts them if their MVP is found guilty.

In other news, the Brewers have tweeted that they are not bidding on Fielder. Supposedly, it is the Cubs, Blue Jays, Mariners, and Rangers in on Fielder but the Rangers are denying it.

[terp_fan99]

Originally Posted by Josh5890

In other news, the Brewers have tweeted that they are not bidding on Fielder. Supposedly, it is the Cubs, Blue Jays, Mariners, and Rangers in on Fielder but the Rangers are denying it.

You can count the Jays out too. Their cheap ass owners won't spend the money and their GM has said he doesn't want to dish out large, long term contracts.

As for the Bautista talk, have you guys really watched him play? He doesn't hit huge home runs like Bonds and those other guys did when they were allegedly on roids. A change in his swing helped his timing and he hits hard line drives. Here's a good article about it: (of course, like the article says in the end, no one will believe he's not on roids)

http://www.thepostgame.com/features/...-way-greatness

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by terp_fan99

You can count the Jays out too. Their cheap ass owners won't spend the money and their GM has said he doesn't want to dish out large, long term contracts.

As for the Bautista talk, have you guys really watched him play? He doesn't hit huge home runs like Bonds and those other guys did when they were allegedly on roids. A change in his swing helped his timing and he hits hard line drives. Here's a good article about it: (of course, like the article says in the end, no one will believe he's not on roids)

http://www.thepostgame.com/features/...-way-greatness

Everyone should also note that compared to basketball and football, guys don't come right out of college and play right away. Some do but most of the time they have to work their way up the ladder. As such, the starting age for an MLB player is older than other sports. Taking your time to find your groove or fix your mechanics can mean that several players only break out in their late 20's.

[filmnut5]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

Same here. I'm all for innocent until proven guilty. But at the same time this does seem odd.

Pre-2010: 14.8 HR per season
2010-2011: 54 and 43 HR

He was also a <.250 hitter until 2010. Since then he's around .280 We're talking massive shifts. Only other guy I can think of who did that was Brady Anderson who went from being a 10-15 HR guy to hitting 50 HR in 1996 before fading back into obscurity. And if I'm not mistaken I think Anderson juiced.

Bautista's spike in production concerns me as well. As a longtime supporter of this ballclub I'm hoping he hasn't been cheating but the numbers suggest otherwise. His increases are almost the exact same as Anderson's were in Baltimore. It just doesn't make sense to go from very mediocre (for years) to MLB leader in the space of one season. I hope he's clean.

[Josh5890]

Originally Posted by terp_fan99

You can count the Jays out too. Their cheap ass owners won't spend the money and their GM has said he doesn't want to dish out large, long term contracts.

As for the Bautista talk, have you guys really watched him play? He doesn't hit huge home runs like Bonds and those other guys did when they were allegedly on roids. A change in his swing helped his timing and he hits hard line drives. Here's a good article about it: (of course, like the article says in the end, no one will believe he's not on roids)

http://www.thepostgame.com/features/...-way-greatness

Don't be suprised if the Blue Jays are in it. Apperantly, his contract will be smaller than originally thought.

My take on Bautista, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt but after the Braun incident, I have a hard time believing players. I really hope Bautista is a clean player.

[Wingman1977]

Originally Posted by Josh5890

Don't be suprised if the Blue Jays are in it. Apperantly, his contract will be smaller than originally thought.

My take on Bautista, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt but after the Braun incident, I have a hard time believing players. I really hope Bautista is a clean player.

The way things have gone with the PED situation in MLB, I won't rule out anyone.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by Wingman1977

The way things have gone with the PED situation in MLB, I won't rule out anyone.

What's funny is I know some Brewers fans who constantly talked junk about how sure they were Pujols was juicing since he looks like the incredible hulk and heals from injuries in miraculously short periods of time. Didn't he return from a broken wrist in like one week? And yet look who flunks a test first - a somewhat skinny Braun that nobody suspected.

These days it's still hard to tell if these tests are catching most cheaters. Probably not. There's always going to be some lab geek devising new formulas for beating the tests.

[Hatter]

2012 ballot is fast approaching but I'm already enraged.

Mike Silva says Palmeiro and McGwire are on his ballot. I don't have a problem with putting steroid users on your ballot though McGwire's paltry numbers outside of his homeruns don't scream hall of fame. You can make an argument that McGwire isn't hall worthy based on numbers alone. My problem is how he says you can't quantify steroid use (fine again) but says you can quantify Coors effect and therefore Walker is out. What kind of crap is that. Sure Coors helps, but it doesn't tell the whole story. Regardless last time I checked Coors was always a sanctioned ballpark. Walker's stint with St Louis should have put that nonsense to bed since Walker played great for the Cardinals at the end of his career. Yes Walker was that damn good.

http://nybaseballdigest.com/?p=41685

It gets worse from there.

Jeff Bagwell no says Jess Schultz. Why? Because Bagwell used andro (which was fully allowed by MLB and doesn't fall under the gray steroid area) and he didn't hit enough homeruns in the minors. What a bunch of crap. He shouldn't be allowed to vote.

http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-bl...f_schultz_blog

[Josh5890]

Originally Posted by Hatter

2012 ballot is fast approaching but I'm already enraged.

Mike Silva says Palmeiro and McGwire are on his ballot. I don't have a problem with putting steroid users on your ballot though McGwire's paltry numbers outside of his homeruns don't scream hall of fame. You can make an argument that McGwire isn't hall worthy based on numbers alone. My problem is how he says you can't quantify steroid use (fine again) but says you can quantify Coors effect and therefore Walker is out. What kind of crap is that. Sure Coors helps, but it doesn't tell the whole story. Regardless last time I checked Coors was always a sanctioned ballpark. Walker's stint with St Louis should have put that nonsense to bed since Walker played great for the Cardinals at the end of his career. Yes Walker was that damn good.

http://nybaseballdigest.com/?p=41685

It gets worse from there.

Jeff Bagwell no says Jess Schultz. Why? Because Bagwell used andro (which was fully allowed by MLB and doesn't fall under the gray steroid area) and he didn't hit enough homeruns in the minors. What a bunch of crap. He shouldn't be allowed to vote.

http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-bl...f_schultz_blog

Candidates: Jeff Bagwell, Jeromy Burnitz, Vinny Castilla, Juan Gonzalez, Brian Jordan, Barry Larkin, Javy Lopez, Edgar Martinez, Don Mattingly, Fred McGriff, Mark McGwire, Jack Morris, Bill Mueller, Terry Mulholland, Dale Murphy, Phil Nevin, Rafael Palmeiro, Brad Radke, Tim Raines, Tim Salmon, Ruben Sierra, Lee Smith, Alan Trammell, Larry Walker, Bernie Williams, Tony Womack, Eric Young

Here is my 2012 ballot (Not that it matters much)

Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Jack Morris
Lee Smith
Larry Walker
Bernie Williams

Not the hotest year of players available but it is a shame that Bagwell isn't in already.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by Hatter

2012 ballot is fast approaching but I'm already enraged.

Mike Silva says Palmeiro and McGwire are on his ballot. I don't have a problem with putting steroid users on your ballot though McGwire's paltry numbers outside of his homeruns don't scream hall of fame. You can make an argument that McGwire isn't hall worthy based on numbers alone. My problem is how he says you can't quantify steroid use (fine again) but says you can quantify Coors effect and therefore Walker is out. What kind of crap is that. Sure Coors helps, but it doesn't tell the whole story. Regardless last time I checked Coors was always a sanctioned ballpark. Walker's stint with St Louis should have put that nonsense to bed since Walker played great for the Cardinals at the end of his career. Yes Walker was that damn good.

http://nybaseballdigest.com/?p=41685

It gets worse from there.

Jeff Bagwell no says Jess Schultz. Why? Because Bagwell used andro (which was fully allowed by MLB and doesn't fall under the gray steroid area) and he didn't hit enough homeruns in the minors. What a bunch of crap. He shouldn't be allowed to vote.

http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-bl...f_schultz_blog

It doesn't matter. Nobody with even a hint of roods is getting in for decades to come. Look the HOF vote share by year for these guys from first year of eligibility to most recent. It takes 75% to get in.

McGwire: 23.5, 23.6, 21.9, 23.7, 19.8
Palmeiro: 11.0%

Every single year McGwire's support has ranged between 19-24% and isn't increasing at all. My guess is the same will go for guys like Clemens and Bonds once they're eligible, though those two probably end up with more like 30-40% of the vote each year. In any case the only way they're ever getting in is the old timer's committee decades from now. Given Bagwell's somewhat respectable 42% of the vote first ballot I'll bet he does eventually make it in within a few years time.

As 2012 goes, it's a weak class. Barry Larkin might make it in on his 3rd ballot, since each year he's getting closer to 75%. There really are no 1st ballot HOF'ers in 2012 IMO. Probably the best player on the ballot in 2012 for the first time is Bernie Williams, and he's nowhere close to being a HOF'er.

The HOF vote I'm looking forward to is 2013 when these guys are all on the ballot for the first time with whether I think they make it.

Barry Bonds - No chance thanks to juicing, probably gets 30-40% share
Roger Clemens - Same as Bonds
Mike Piazza - Well as far as I know he's never been linked to roids, though I have my suspicions. Hard to say but I think he's 1st ballot.
Sammy Sosa - Juicer - Probably gets around 20% like McGwire
Curt Schilling - I think he will make the HOF one day, but not 1st ballot
Craig Biggio - Probably the most likely 1st ballot HOF'er of the 2012 class. His numbers aren't as jaw-dropping as Bonds or Sosa but he was an amazing all-around player for many years. Only real knock on his is his mediocre .234 playoff avg.
Kenny Lofton - I'm not sure what to make of Lofton's chances. He was a terrific lead-off man for a lot of years, won 4 Gold Gloves, 5-time SB leader. He played on a lot of really great teams, but won only 1 ring (with Atlanta) and underperformed in the playoffs. Hard to say if he's HOF.

2014 is another strong class - Frank Thomas, Tom Glavine, Jeff Kent, Greg Maddux, Mike Mussina. I'm really happy as a Braves fan that Maddux and Glavine will be entering the HOF together. I think Thomas makes it too, barring steroid links. Kent should be a HOF'er, but I doubt 1st ballot. Reputation matters to HOF voters and despite his solid numbers he was always an a-hole with teammates and the media. Mussina had a fine career but I doubt he ever makes it.

[Josh5890]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

2014 is another strong class - Frank Thomas, Tom Glavine, Jeff Kent, Greg Maddux, Mike Mussina. I'm really happy as a Braves fan that Maddux and Glavine will be entering the HOF together. I think Thomas makes it too, barring steroid links. Kent should be a HOF'er, but I doubt 1st ballot. Reputation matters to HOF voters and despite his solid numbers he was always an a-hole with teammates and the media. Mussina had a fine career but I doubt he ever makes it.

Glavine and Maddux are first ballot HOF's. Jeff Kent gets in within 5 years. I think Mussina has a shot after Blylevin made it in last year. I have a feeling that Thomas gets in on his 2nd or 3rd try.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by Josh5890

Glavine and Maddux are first ballot HOF's. Jeff Kent gets in within 5 years. I think Mussina has a shot after Blylevin made it in last year. I have a feeling that Thomas gets in on his 2nd or 3rd try.

Normally I'd say being a Yankee is a plus for the HOF. But not in Mussina's case. Mussina made the post-season 9 different seasons, 7 with the Yankees and failed to win a ring. Even worse the Yankees won the championship the year before he joined the team and won it again the year after he retired. I know it's mostly just bad luck, but he also hurt his HOF chances by retiring at 39 when he was still a 20-game winner to finish with 270 wins. Had he only stuck around for maybe 2 more seasons to hit 300 he would have helped his HOF case tremendously. He also finished top-6 in the AL Cy Young voting 9 times, yet never managed to win it. Doubt he gets in the HOF.

[Wingman1977]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

Normally I'd say being a Yankee is a plus for the HOF. But not in Mussina's case. Mussina made the post-season 9 different seasons, 7 with the Yankees and failed to win a ring. Even worse the Yankees won the championship the year before he joined the team and won it again the year after he retired. I know it's mostly just bad luck, but he also hurt his HOF chances by retiring at 39 when he was still a 20-game winner to finish with 270 wins. Had he only stuck around for maybe 2 more seasons to hit 300 he would have helped his HOF case tremendously. He also finished top-6 in the AL Cy Young voting 9 times, yet never managed to win it. Doubt he gets in the HOF.

He's 100 games over 500 in his won/loss record and every pitcher who has the same is in the HOF. Just keep that in mind.

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

Normally I'd say being a Yankee is a plus for the HOF. But not in Mussina's case. Mussina made the post-season 9 different seasons, 7 with the Yankees and failed to win a ring. Even worse the Yankees won the championship the year before he joined the team and won it again the year after he retired. I know it's mostly just bad luck, but he also hurt his HOF chances by retiring at 39 when he was still a 20-game winner to finish with 270 wins. Had he only stuck around for maybe 2 more seasons to hit 300 he would have helped his HOF case tremendously. He also finished top-6 in the AL Cy Young voting 9 times, yet never managed to win it. Doubt he gets in the HOF.

If writers weren't so narrow minded and did some research, they would realize Mussina should have won the Cy Young over Clemens in 2001. Instead he finished a distant fifth. His hall of fame standard number is also 54 with the average hall of famer having a score of 50. Hall of fame monitor number is 121 (likely hall of famer number is 100). 5 gold gloves to his name as well. He was the AL equivalent of Maddux when it came to fielding.

[kpkelley]

Reports are beginning to surface that the Red Sox have completed a trade with the Houston Astros for Mark Melancon. Melancon had twenty saves for the Astros last season. The Astros will receive Kyle Weiland, a minor league starter who made a handful of starts with the Sox last season, and Jed Lowrie, a versatile infielder who never took a starting role because of injuries.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by Hatter

If writers weren't so narrow minded and did some research, they would realize Mussina should have won the Cy Young over Clemens in 2001. Instead he finished a distant fifth. His hall of fame standard number is also 54 with the average hall of famer having a score of 50. Hall of fame monitor number is 121 (likely hall of famer number is 100). 5 gold gloves to his name as well. He was the AL equivalent of Maddux when it came to fielding.

That may be true, but his ERA is a problem at 3.68. I know it's the juiced ball era but his career ERA would be the 2nd highest all-time for a HOF'er (only Red Ruffin is worse) if elected. I guess one could argue Glavine's 3.54 was almost as high, but Glavine pitched until he was 42 unlike Mussina who retired younger. Glavine made up for it in other areas too.

[fatediesel]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

That may be true, but his ERA is a problem at 3.68. I know it's the juiced ball era but his career ERA would be the 2nd highest all-time for a HOF'er (only Red Ruffin is worse) if elected. I guess one could argue Glavine's 3.54 was almost as high, but Glavine pitched until he was 42 unlike Mussina who retired younger. Glavine made up for it in other areas too.

Glavine hit the magic 300 for wins. Every 300 game winner has made the HOF. If Mussina had hit 300 wins he'd be a surefire first ballot HOF'er but he chose to retire when he was still very good and because of that probably won't be a first ballot Hall of Famer. I would guess he'll get voted in his second or third year on the ballot though.

[Wingman1977]

Reports are that the Blue Jays won the Yu Darvish sweepstakes with a 60 million dollar bid. They would have 30 days to reach a agreement on a contract with him. If not, he goes back to his Japanese team (and the Japanese team keeps the money). That is, if the reports are accurate.