2025 Major League Baseball Thread

[sycro]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

Well if my memory is correct I think when Maddux was available in 1993 it was the Yankees and Braves bidding on him and the Yankees offered more money. In the end he signed with Atlanta. The entire MLB landscape of the 1990's-early 00's could have been altered if Maddux signed with the Yankees.

I do think quite a few voters hesitant to vote in Glavine first ballot might be swayed in favor given Maddux will be voted in. It would look really stupid not having Glavine and Maddux going in together.

It's too bad Smoltz stayed an extra year... though I don't know if he'll be first ballot.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by sycro

It's too bad Smoltz stayed an extra year... though I don't know if he'll be first ballot.

I think he should be first ballot but it more likely 2nd or 3rd ballot. He still managed to win 213 games despite being a closer for 3.5 seasons and missing the entire 2000 season. And even as a closer he was one of the best in the game. His career ERA is actually lower than Glavine's.

Smoltz was actually the best post-season pitcher out of the big 3 Braves starters. He was 15-4 with a 2.67 ERA in the post-season.

[sycro]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

I think he should be first ballot but it more likely 2nd or 3rd ballot. He still managed to win 213 games despite being a closer for 3.5 seasons and missing the entire 2000 season. And even as a closer he was one of the best in the game. His career ERA is actually lower than Glavine's.

Smoltz was actually the best post-season pitcher out of the big 3 Braves starters. He was 15-4 with a 2.67 ERA in the post-season.

Oh, I agree, but I wonder how long it will take some of the crankier voters to get around to him. You look at his wins, and it's not HOF. You look at his saves, and they're not HOF. But when you put his entire career together, it's damn impressive. To think that he became a closer out of his own necessity, dominated it, and then returned to being a dominating starter again is just amazing. He won a Cy Young as a starter AND was a #3 Cy Young as a reliever (and he was actually better the next year, but he pitched less so no Cy Young votes)

[StereoMike]

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[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by sycro

Oh, I agree, but I wonder how long it will take some of the crankier voters to get around to him. You look at his wins, and it's not HOF. You look at his saves, and they're not HOF. But when you put his entire career together, it's damn impressive. To think that he became a closer out of his own necessity, dominated it, and then returned to being a dominating starter again is just amazing. He won a Cy Young as a starter AND was a #3 Cy Young as a reliever (and he was actually better the next year, but he pitched less so no Cy Young votes)

Smoltz will take a few years to get in, though his case is strongly bolstered by the narrative aspect of being on the same Braves teams for nearly a decade with Maddux and Glavine. The writers like the idea of putting in all of the big three from the dynasty in the HOF.

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by sycro

I never realized this:

Glavine had only 1 less top 2 Cy Young finish than Greg Maddux (4 to 5), and only 1 less top 3 (6 to 7). Glavine finished 2nd once and 3rd twice during the four years Maddux won. Imagine what Glavine's numbers would look like if Maddux hadn't pitched during the same time.

The interesting thing about Glavine is that his career WHIP (1.314) is quite high for a hall of fame pitcher. Even his K/BB ratio is only 1.74.

That said though, from 1991-2002 with the Braves despite having a similar WHIP and K/BB ratio to his career, he still sported an excellent 3.15 ERA and 134 ERA+, won 20 games five times, had a W-L of 209-102 as well as an overlooked 4 silver sluggers. Okay so sure pitcher winning a silver slugger isn't like a position player winning one but its a plus in my book to your pitching career when your not a free pass for the opposing pitcher at the plate.

[Clark Kent]

Glavine's numbers looked better before he hung around to achieve 300 wins. He also had a hard time adjusting when they started calling a different strike zone in the early aughts.

[sycro]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

Glavine's numbers looked better before he hung around to achieve 300 wins. He also had a hard time adjusting when they started calling a different strike zone in the early aughts.

He went 28-15 in his last 2 full years. It was really just his one last half-season with Atlanta where he was 2-4.

And I don't think it was the change in the strike zone as much as the change in scenery. Most of the pitchers that worked with Leo Mazzone have at least a half run drop in ERA. Why Mazzone doesn't get serious HoF consideration for that alone is beyond me.

[sycro]

Glavine: 3.41 for the Braves, 3.97 for Mets.
Maddux: 2.63 for Braves, 3.61 for Cubs
Denny Neagle: 3.43 for Braves, 3.89 for Reds, 4.02 for Pirates, 5.57 for Rockies
John Burkett: 3.74 for Braves, 3.83 for Giants (years earlier), 4.31 for Marlins, 5.13 for Rangers (the two teams between Giants and Braves), 4.85 for Red Sox (after Braves)
Jaret Wright: 3.23 for Braves, 4.99 for Yankees, 5.50 for Indians

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

Glavine's numbers looked better before he hung around to achieve 300 wins. He also had a hard time adjusting when they started calling a different strike zone in the early aughts.

Maddux and Glavine both hung around too long. Maddux had a 2.89 ERA when he left Atlanta at age 37, finishing with a 3.17 ERA after several mediocre seasons. Glavine's ERA went from 3.37 when he left the Braves at 37, ending up 3.54 when he retired.

Funny thing is Smoltz had a far superior post-season record among Atlanta's big 3.

Glavine: 14-16 with a 3.30 ERA
Maddux: 11-14 with a 3.27 ERA
Smoltz: 15-4 with a 2.67 ERA

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by sycro

Glavine: 3.41 for the Braves, 3.97 for Mets.
Maddux: 2.63 for Braves, 3.61 for Cubs
Denny Neagle: 3.43 for Braves, 3.89 for Reds, 4.02 for Pirates, 5.57 for Rockies
John Burkett: 3.74 for Braves, 3.83 for Giants (years earlier), 4.31 for Marlins, 5.13 for Rangers (the two teams between Giants and Braves), 4.85 for Red Sox (after Braves)
Jaret Wright: 3.23 for Braves, 4.99 for Yankees, 5.50 for Indians

Haha, I remember that guy. He had one good year with Atlanta then suckered the Yankees into a big contract where he pitched like garbage.

[sycro]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

Haha, I remember that guy. He had one good year with Atlanta then suckered the Yankees into a big contract where he pitched like garbage.

Yup. Atlanta paid him 850K for his one year (well 1+ year after Braves picked him up off waivers for a month). Then the Yankees paid him 13+ million for 2 years before trading him with cash to Baltimore, where he picked up another 7 million (not sure what part of that Yankees paid).

[fatediesel]

The Nationals have agreed to a deal with reliever Rafael Soriano on a two-year, $28 million contract with a third-year vesting option for $14 million. The vesting option calls for Soriano to finish 120 games over the 2013 and 2014 seasons. While this isn't a bad deal for Soriano it's nowhere near the four-year, $60 million deal that Scott Boras told the Yankees he could get for Soriano when he opted-out of his deal.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/88...ls-source-says

[sycro]

Originally Posted by fatediesel

The Nationals have agreed to a deal with reliever Rafael Soriano on a two-year, $28 million contract with a third-year vesting option for $14 million. The vesting option calls for Soriano to finish 120 games over the 2013 and 2014 seasons. While this isn't a bad deal for Soriano it's nowhere near the four-year, $60 million deal that Scott Boras told the Yankees he could get for Soriano when he opted-out of his deal.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/88...ls-source-says

Who was the last free agent Boras came even close on? Bourn is still available and from my understanding, the market has basically vanished, at least at his asking price.

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by sycro

Who was the last free agent Boras came even close on? Bourn is still available and from my understanding, the market has basically vanished, at least at his asking price.

I have to believe that Bourn is sitting on an offer from some mystery team, probably for less money or years than he would like. He's still hoping a team comes out of nowhere, to offer him bigger dollars.

[fatediesel]

Jacoby Ellsbury ‏@JacobyEllsbury
Deal done! Excited to get to spring training!!!

I would assume this means Ellsbury got a new contract. Ellsbury was eligible for arbitration, so it will be interesting to see if it's a one-year deal or a longer extension.

Edit: Ellsbury got a one-year, $9 million deal.

[Ashamed Pegasus]

R.I.P Earl Weaver... 1930-2013

[supersix4]

Originally Posted by Ashamed Pegasus

R.I.P Earl Weaver... 1930-2013

OH S* worst news ever!

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by Ashamed Pegasus

R.I.P Earl Weaver... 1930-2013

The smartest manager of the modern era. He was way ahead of the curve, using managing techniques that wouldn't become popular until years after his career was over.

[sycro]

Stan Musial passed away today at 92